Very Computer

It is probably known to most people that the *ers at Mickey$oft are going
to drop support for Java in XP and IE.

Oreilly is starting a movement to get the OEMs to install it on PC before
they are shipped out.
http://www.veryComputer.com/

Also complain to SUN to get them to move the OEMs to do the same. Having the
user download and install the VM may end up being the death of Java in the
browser. Deny MickeySoft that victory. Call OEMs such as DELL, Gateway,
Compaq, HP and IBM to do the same.

why not merely NOT purchase XP and deny MS that income.

-mike-

Quote:

> It is probably known to most people that the *ers at Mickey$oft are going
> to drop support for Java in XP and IE.

> Oreilly is starting a movement to get the OEMs to install it on PC before
> they are shipped out.
> http://www.veryComputer.com/

> Also complain to SUN to get them to move the OEMs to do the same. Having the
> user download and install the VM may end up being the death of Java in the
> browser. Deny MickeySoft that victory. Call OEMs such as DELL, Gateway,
> Compaq, HP and IBM to do the same.

:>Deny MickeySoft that victory.

: why not merely NOT purchase XP and deny MS that income.

Try buying a new PC without XP installed.  Try working in the real world
where Windows is THE desktop.  Like it or not, that's the way it is. As
for not supporting monopolies, make sure your next PC purchase runs an
AMD Athlon chip instead of Intel's PIIII.  There's an area people have
some immediate say in.

: -mike-

:>
:> It is probably known to most people that the *ers at Mickey$oft are going
:> to drop support for Java in XP and IE.
:>
:> Oreilly is starting a movement to get the OEMs to install it on PC before
:> they are shipped out.
:> http://www.veryComputer.com/
:>
:> Also complain to SUN to get them to move the OEMs to do the same. Having the
:> user download and install the VM may end up being the death of Java in the
:> browser. Deny MickeySoft that victory. Call OEMs such as DELL, Gateway,
:> Compaq, HP and IBM to do the same.

That's just fine, but it rather misses the point. Parents buying PCs for
their kids don't realise the significance of this issue, nor do most PC
buyers. PC manfacturers and resellers, OTOH, *do* have some idea of what it
means to be locked in to a single supplier, especially those who have
already endorsed Linux. They might also be swayed by the argument that even
a small percentage of their prospective clients might pass them over if they
don't get with the program.

Luke

Why not do both? The only way to stop Microsquish is to quit
using there products:
  IE -> Use Opera and/or Mozilla and /or Netscape 6.1
  Outlook Express -> Use Opera and/or Mozilla and /or Netscape 6.1
  Messaging -> Use ICQ or Yahoo
  Windows Media Player -> Use RealJukebox and/or RealPlayer
  Windows -> Use Linux KDE
  Office -> Use StarOffice (wish there was a better solution)

Quote:>why not merely NOT purchase XP and deny MS that income.

That tactic has proven itself ineffective in dealing with MS for all
the other OS releases they've had.  This really is a case where
grassroots efforts from the little guy don't amount to very much.

--
Cuplan.

"She's just a drug *ion and a self-reflecting
 image of a narcotized mind."
           -Swans, "Celebrity Lifestyle"

Easy for a desktop, hard(er) for a laptop.

Quote:>Try working in the real world where Windows is THE desktop.

Let's see, BSD computers at home, Linux desktop at work.
The Windows users at work sometimes get their computers
trashed by Outlook viruses.

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Timothy J. Lee
Unsolicited bulk or commercial email is not welcome.
No warranty of any kind is provided with this message.

there are plenty of people who wear suits and ties who would walk away
from microsatan if they could.

star office- are you freaking kidding me? that's the second- biggest
pile of garbage around

netscape- we have a winner! biggest pile of garbage ever assembled by
man

microsatan's "hooks" are down to ie5 and, to some extent, excel.
people know there are lots of word processors they can use. if star
office wasn't so damned slow and such a liar as to what it can do (eg,
import formats handled) some people could be talked away form excel.
but what's happened on corporate intranets is the wussies who work in
big it departments who have never written a line of code nor executed
a binary at the dos prompt have set up *all* of the stuff to run
*only* on ie5. it's not really .asp as much as network authentication
that underlies this.

sun seemingly didn't understand that they were losing out in this
process, not just netscape. but i really blame netscape. what a
horrible company, run by truly horrible people. basically every word
out of their mouths is garbage.

oh, and they're now out of the browser business. game over. next.

On Tue, 24 Jul 2001 07:01:27 -0700, "Mark Reha"

I tried Opera, and I couldn't stand it.  Nothing worked sufficiently
well on it.  Netscape?  I'm not sure I'll be happy with it.  Their CSS
support is horrible, among other things.

Quote:>  Outlook Express -> Use Opera and/or Mozilla and /or Netscape 6.1

Opera's news client was pathetic, and I'm sure its mail client is just
as bad.

Quote:>  Messaging -> Use ICQ or Yahoo

Or Jabber. :)

Quote:>  Windows -> Use Linux KDE
>  Office -> Use StarOffice (wish there was a better solution)

I wish there was a better solution to each.  The "opt out" solution
doesn't work for everyone, though, because the fact remains that the
average purchaser doesn't care about the politics of his/her purchase
and just wants an easy computer that does lots of stuff.  As a result,
people continue to develop for that platform heavily.  As a result,
opting out leaves you out in the cold, which slows the adoption rate
of alternative technologies, which prevents popular adoption of
alternatives...and so the cycle continues.

--
Cuplan.

"She's just a drug *ion and a self-reflecting
 image of a narcotized mind."
           -Swans, "Celebrity Lifestyle"

Quote:>   Office -> Use StarOffice (wish there was a better solution)

There is a better solution...try Corel Office.  Their spelling/grammer
checker is much better than M$.

Don't take my message as an example of this.  :-P  But I do use it
frequently for essays/thesii.

Regards
- Chris

Quote:> It's never going to happen, especially now that Microsoft is being
> attacked for adding too many features to XP:
> http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1003-200-6658768.html?tag=mn_hd
> Why would they want to add one more feature?

Based on that article, the attacks are coming since MS is doing its own
thing only, not using features from other companies. Enabling Java would
help MS out in this area - supplying the software of a "rival".

Chris

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I think you're forgetting one key point: M$ are FORBIDDEN to distribute
a more recent of their JVM, because they refused to adhere to the contrcat
they signed with Sun.

AFAIK, there's nothing to prevent M$ from installing (say) Sun's JVM
with XP, but can you really see M$ doing that?

I think if any JVM bundling is gonna happen, it'll have to come from
the OEMs.  Thanks God I don't use peecees...!

--
Rich Teer

President,
Rite Online Inc.

Voice: +1 (250) 979-1638
URL: http://www.rite-online.net

Quote:> AFAIK, there's nothing to prevent M$ from installing (say) Sun's JVM
> with XP, but can you really see M$ doing that?

hehe not unless Bill Gates recently had some weird brain surgery no one has
heard about. MS is most definately working to build an empire. It's been
interesting to watch them build and others work to tear down. It reminds me
of an old Science Fiction short story about a guy who builds up an empire in
a computer game then someone else takes it over and tears it down. MS right
now almost has that kind of look to it. They are building it up, the Justice
Department is tearing it down.

Quote:> I think if any JVM bundling is gonna happen, it'll have to come from
> the OEMs.  Thanks God I don't use peecees...!

I think that was the point of the post I responded to - that the OEM's
should go ahead and install Sun's JVM.

Chris

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Quote:>> I think if any JVM bundling is gonna happen, it'll have to come from
>> the OEMs.  Thanks God I don't use peecees...!
>I think that was the point of the post I responded to - that the OEM's
>should go ahead and install Sun's JVM.

Just scrolled back through the thread some - maybe this wasn't mentioned
in a previous post. I'm reading too many WinXP & Java threads on different
NG's hehe. Hard to keep them straight.

Chris

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Why, I didn't notice that no Java in XP. Say more, when I browsed
www.microsoft.com, the browser installed Java somehow. I was very
angry on Microsoft, because I wanted to install Java 2 plug-in instead
of crappy Microsoft's one.