Very Computer

by **Mike C** » Tue, 27 Jul 2004 10:01:22

For about 12,000 USD, you can buy a pSeries that has ChipKill(TM)
technology, dual CPUs that if one fails, the other takes over, a
service manager, and reduncant powersupplies and RAID disks. Best of
all, that server will work seemlessly with my Linux desktops and
applications because it too runs linux.

SUN is going in the complete opposite direction. It is blindly
clinging on to Solaris instead of switching to Linux OR having a Linux
affinity Solaris such as something that could be branded "SolarisLX"
that would work seemlessly with Linux. Make Linux or Linux affinity
Solaris availible for everything from a SUNFIRE to the Ultrasparc.

The last thing that SUN is doing wrong is ruining the SUN brand by
using commodity INTEL chips. Companies used to show their customers
and investors the IT room full of huge SUN boxes to impress them, but
now that the SUN brand has been tarnished it is not as impressive
anymore. Customers now see sun as either a has-been or just another
OEM DELL machine.

SUN was high-end reliable computing that boasted you could write your
app on an Ultra and move it to a SUNFIRE. IBM now has that message
because now you can write your app on Linux and run it on a Mainframe.
Fun too how much money IBM makes from JAVA.

by **Gregory Toome** » Tue, 27 Jul 2004 11:42:01

> For about 12,000 USD, you can buy a pSeries that has ChipKill(TM)
> technology, dual CPUs that if one fails, the other takes over, a
> service manager, and reduncant powersupplies and RAID disks. Best of
> all, that server will work seemlessly with my Linux desktops and
> applications because it too runs linux.

> SUN is going in the complete opposite direction. It is blindly
> clinging on to Solaris instead of switching to Linux

Sun owns Cobalt, which makes linux servers.

Quote:> OR having a Linux
> affinity Solaris such as something that could be branded "SolarisLX"
> that would work seemlessly with Linux. Make Linux or Linux affinity
> Solaris availible for everything from a SUNFIRE to the Ultrasparc.

> The last thing that SUN is doing wrong is ruining the SUN brand by
> using commodity INTEL chips. Companies used to show their customers
> and investors the IT room full of huge SUN boxes to impress them, but
> now that the SUN brand has been tarnished it is not as impressive
> anymore. Customers now see sun as either a has-been or just another
> OEM DELL machine.

In the past sun had to comete with IBM & HP. Sun now has to compete with the
$0 (or near to $0) linux alternative.

Quote:> SUN was high-end reliable computing that boasted you could write your
> app on an Ultra and move it to a SUNFIRE. IBM now has that message
> because now you can write your app on Linux and run it on a Mainframe.
> Fun too how much money IBM makes from JAVA.

Where big money is concerned (eg banks), buying a "solution", reliability
and service is more important than cost. Sun still makes lots of money
selling services.

But you are right in Sun & solaris getting squeezed. Linux & bsd lack some
functionality of solaris but cost near $0 . Its what happens when operating
systems become commodities.

gtoomey

by **CJT** » Tue, 27 Jul 2004 11:55:25

> For about 12,000 USD, you can buy a pSeries that has ChipKill(TM)
> technology, dual CPUs that if one fails, the other takes over, a
> service manager, and reduncant powersupplies and RAID disks. Best of
> all, that server will work seemlessly with my Linux desktops and
> applications because it too runs linux.

<snip>

$12K can buy some pretty nice Sun gear, too.

--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to

by **Scrubbing Bubble** » Tue, 27 Jul 2004 12:57:34

> For about 12,000 USD, you can buy a pSeries that has ChipKill(TM)
> technology, dual CPUs that if one fails, the other takes over, a
> service manager, and reduncant powersupplies and RAID disks. Best of
> all, that server will work seemlessly with my Linux desktops and
> applications because it too runs linux.

> SUN is going in the complete opposite direction. It is blindly
> clinging on to Solaris instead of switching to Linux OR having a Linux

Huh? They see the need for a high end Unix OS that is proprietary. Good
for them. Diversity is good.

Quote:> affinity Solaris such as something that could be branded "SolarisLX"
> that would work seemlessly with Linux. Make Linux or Linux affinity
> Solaris availible for everything from a SUNFIRE to the Ultrasparc.

Why ?

Quote:> The last thing that SUN is doing wrong is ruining the SUN brand by
> using commodity INTEL chips. Companies used to show their customers

That's only for cheap workstations. They need cheap JDS stations to be a
full service company. They get clobbered when they try to 'work together'
with deceitful people like Micro$haft, so, now they have a fully complete
system. They can do cheap workstations, servers, Linux, java, desktop,
high performance computing, Unix *and* Linux. And, of course, they own
java.

Quote:> and investors the IT room full of huge SUN boxes to impress them, but
> now that the SUN brand has been tarnished it is not as impressive
> anymore. Customers now see sun as either a has-been or just another
> OEM DELL machine.

Old news. This is the year 2004, Rip van Winkle. Read on:

http://www.forbes.com/technology/feeds/infoimaging/2004/07/23/infoima...

Infoimaging
Sun Posts Modest Sales Gains (Folo) STMicro Profit Nearly Doubles As Chief
Forecasts Strong Demand
The New York Times, 07.23.04, 5:00 PM ET

Sun, the Santa Clara, California, computer hardware and software company,
said its revenue for the quarter that ended on June 30 was $3.11 billion,
up 4.3 percent.

Net income was $795 million, against a loss of $1.04 billion a year
earlier. But the figure for the most recent quarter included $1.6 billion
that Microsoft paid to settle a suit. Without special gains and charges,
Sun lost $169 million.

International Herald Tribune

--
http://kentpsychedelic.blogspot.com

by **Rich Tee** » Tue, 27 Jul 2004 13:07:34

[Pro-Linux drivel snipped.]

___________________
/| /| | |
||__|| | Please do |
/ O O\__ NOT |
/ \ feed the |
/ \ \ trolls |
/ _ \ \ ______________|
/ |\____\ \ ||
/ | | | |\____/ ||
/ \|_|_|/ \ __||
/ / \ |____| ||
/ | | /| | --|
| | |// |____ --|
* _ | |_|_|_| | \-/
*-- _--\ _ \ // |
/ _ \\ _ // | /
* / \_ /- | - | |
* ___ c_c_c_C/ \C_c_c_c____________

--
Rich Teer, SCNA, SCSA

President,
Rite Online Inc.

Voice: +1 (250) 979-1638
URL: http://www.rite-online.net

by **Gavin Maltb** » Tue, 27 Jul 2004 23:21:17

> ___________________
> /| /| | |
> ||__|| | Please do |
> / O O\__ NOT |
> / \ feed the |
> / \ \ trolls |
> / _ \ \ ______________|
> / |\____\ \ ||
> / | | | |\____/ ||
> / \|_|_|/ \ __||
> / / \ |____| ||
> / | | /| | --|
> | | |// |____ --|
> * _ | |_|_|_| | \-/
> *-- _--\ _ \ // |
> / _ \\ _ // | /
> * / \_ /- | - | |
> * ___ c_c_c_C/ \C_c_c_c____________

Hey Rich - the grin looks remarkably as I remember you!

Gavin

by **Chris Co** » Wed, 28 Jul 2004 00:48:20

> For about 12,000 USD, you can buy a pSeries that has ChipKill(TM)
> technology, dual CPUs that if one fails, the other takes over, a
> service manager, and reduncant powersupplies and RAID disks. Best of
> all, that server will work seemlessly with my Linux desktops and
> applications because it too runs linux.

> SUN is going in the complete opposite direction. It is blindly
> clinging on to Solaris instead of switching to Linux OR having a Linux
> affinity Solaris such as something that could be branded "SolarisLX"
> that would work seemlessly with Linux. Make Linux or Linux affinity
> Solaris availible for everything from a SUNFIRE to the Ultrasparc.

Actually... I have word from the inside of Sun that Sun is "full tilt"
favoring Linux right now. Solaris will be an additional offering,
but after it is completely open sourced, users will have a choice
between FULLY Sun supported LINUX (e.g. JDS - which is built on
Novell SUSE Linux Enterprise Server v8), or FULLY Sun supported
Solaris.

Your information is wrong. Though many in the newsgroup will likely
support the idea of Sun NOT going after Linux, my inside sources
say that Linux has become king at Sun currently.

Where's IBM's Linux desktop offering? While Sun has the Java
Desktop System, IBM pretty much only support Linux on the server
side. Sun is actively pushing both server and client side Linux.

Quote:
> The last thing that SUN is doing wrong is ruining the SUN brand by
> using commodity INTEL chips. Companies used to show their customers
> and investors the IT room full of huge SUN boxes to impress them, but
> now that the SUN brand has been tarnished it is not as impressive
> anymore. Customers now see sun as either a has-been or just another
> OEM DELL machine.

You'll find the Opteron a better price/performance target than
the IBM offerings currently.... saying that, IBM also offers an
Opteron line... so I guess maybe I don't fully understand the
issue here. Sparc, will live on for a while.. possibly even with
another upgrade or two... but you don't have to use Sparc anymore,
and IMHO, that's a good thing.

Quote:
> SUN was high-end reliable computing that boasted you could write your
> app on an Ultra and move it to a SUNFIRE. IBM now has that message
> because now you can write your app on Linux and run it on a Mainframe.
> Fun too how much money IBM makes from JAVA.

Probably won't see Sun (anything) on the mainframe. But since the
mainframe now runs Linux and since Sun fully supports and encourages
the use of Linux now, all IBM is doing is providing another
fully Sun compatible platform to Sun.

Sunfire will continue to live on since there isn't a reasonable
"cheap" platform alternative. Again, the high end is where Sparc
will continue to live on for a while. As commodity x86 platforms
become available with hundreds of processors, I'm sure Sun will
change. But.. when you consider that high end SMP is somewhat
of a niche market nowadays, perhaps it doesn't matter too much
what happens to the Sunfire line.

If you had written this post a year ago... it would have
been somewhat valid. But as of today, Sun is a Linux company.
Somebody from Sun may feel free to provide more details
on Sun's current Linux strategy. In many ways, Sun is a much
bigger supporter of Linux than IBM. If you doubt that, I
encourage you to call Sun and ask them.

by **Don Dav** » Wed, 28 Jul 2004 01:45:28

> For about 12,000 USD, you can buy a pSeries that has ChipKill(TM)
> technology, dual CPUs that if one fails, the other takes over, a
> service manager, and reduncant powersupplies and RAID disks. Best of
> all, that server will work seemlessly with my Linux desktops and
> applications because it too runs linux.

> SUN is going in the complete opposite direction. It is blindly
> clinging on to Solaris instead of switching to Linux OR having a Linux
> affinity Solaris such as something that could be branded "SolarisLX"
> that would work seemlessly with Linux. Make Linux or Linux affinity
> Solaris availible for everything from a SUNFIRE to the Ultrasparc.

> The last thing that SUN is doing wrong is ruining the SUN brand by
> using commodity INTEL chips. Companies used to show their customers
> and investors the IT room full of huge SUN boxes to impress them, but
> now that the SUN brand has been tarnished it is not as impressive
> anymore. Customers now see sun as either a has-been or just another
> OEM DELL machine.

> SUN was high-end reliable computing that boasted you could write your
> app on an Ultra and move it to a SUNFIRE. IBM now has that message
> because now you can write your app on Linux and run it on a Mainframe.
> Fun too how much money IBM makes from JAVA.

I think everyone is missing the point. Hardware and operating systems
are necessary evil's in providing an environment for an application to
run.

Applicatons are where businesses make their money. Until vendors stop
charging on a per processor basis, (real or virtual if using LPAR,
micro partitioning, VMWare... etc) the cost of the app is what
matters. In the meantime, from a cost standpoint, I want the world's
fastest one-way processor. If that's not fast enough to run the app,
the next best alternative is the world's fastest two-way.... etc.

It makes no sense to acquire a low cost hardware platform (choose your
vendor),
a free or low cost operating system, (choose your OS), then fork over
several hundred thousand dollars for an enterprise class database
product. (Other software products are also moving to number of CPU
based pricing, or charging by the client, if client/server)

What I would really like to see is an open source database (like
MySQL) with
advanced features, like triggers, stored procedures.. etc. This would
take most
of the price gouging out of software sales, and make hardware and OS
software important again. Right now, the harware/OS software component
is such a small fraction of the total costs of ownership, I'm not sure
it really matters. Both have reached commidity status. Just my
opinion, comments welcome.

by **Rich Tee** » Wed, 28 Jul 2004 02:08:53

> Hey Rich - the grin looks remarkably as I remember you!

Excellent - all that cash spent of self-portrait art classes
wasn't wasted! :-)

--
Rich Teer, SCNA, SCSA

President,
Rite Online Inc.

Voice: +1 (250) 979-1638
URL: http://www.rite-online.net

by **Rich Tee** » Wed, 28 Jul 2004 02:13:21

> What I would really like to see is an open source database (like
> MySQL) with
> advanced features, like triggers, stored procedures.. etc. This would

It's already here, and it's called PostgreSQL.

--
Rich Teer, SCNA, SCSA

President,
Rite Online Inc.

Voice: +1 (250) 979-1638
URL: http://www.rite-online.net

by **Richard D. Lath** » Wed, 28 Jul 2004 02:14:24

< snip >

Quote:
> Sunfire will continue to live on since there isn't a reasonable
> "cheap" platform alternative. Again, the high end is where Sparc
> will continue to live on for a while. As commodity x86 platforms
> become available with hundreds of processors, I'm sure Sun will
> change. But.. when you consider that high end SMP is somewhat
> of a niche market nowadays, perhaps it doesn't matter too much
> what happens to the Sunfire line.

... "high end SMP is somewhat of a niche market nowadays" ...

I wish I had enough money that I could consider a multi-billion dollar
a year market was a "niche market" :-)

--
#include <disclaimer.std> /* I don't speak for IBM ... */
/* Heck, I don't even speak for myself */
/* Don't believe me ? Ask my wife :-) */

by **Rich Tee** » Wed, 28 Jul 2004 02:19:21

> Actually... I have word from the inside of Sun that Sun is "full tilt"
> favoring Linux right now. Solaris will be an additional offering,

Well, we obviously have different inside contacts, and I don't
recall hearing your voice on various NDA conference calls discussing
this matter I've been party to...

Quote:> but after it is completely open sourced, users will have a choice
> between FULLY Sun supported LINUX (e.g. JDS - which is built on
> Novell SUSE Linux Enterprise Server v8), or FULLY Sun supported
> Solaris.

JDS will soon be available on Solaris - both SPARC and x86. It is
NOT tied to a Linuc kernel.

Quote:> Your information is wrong. Though many in the newsgroup will likely
> support the idea of Sun NOT going after Linux, my inside sources
> say that Linux has become king at Sun currently.

I think your sources are dated. Yes, Linux is supported in and
by Sun, but they are refocussing their priorities on Solaris
(SPARC and x86).

Quote:> If you had written this post a year ago... it would have
> been somewhat valid. But as of today, Sun is a Linux company.

I disagree. Sun fully supports Linux, yes, but their focus
is on Solaris. I see that message becoming even louder and
clearer when S10 hits FCS...

--
Rich Teer, SCNA, SCSA

President,
Rite Online Inc.

Voice: +1 (250) 979-1638
URL: http://www.rite-online.net

by **CJT** » Wed, 28 Jul 2004 02:20:52

> < snip >

>>Sunfire will continue to live on since there isn't a reasonable
>>"cheap" platform alternative. Again, the high end is where Sparc
>>will continue to live on for a while. As commodity x86 platforms
>>become available with hundreds of processors, I'm sure Sun will
>>change. But.. when you consider that high end SMP is somewhat
>>of a niche market nowadays, perhaps it doesn't matter too much
>>what happens to the Sunfire line.

> ... "high end SMP is somewhat of a niche market nowadays" ...

> I wish I had enough money that I could consider a multi-billion dollar
> a year market was a "niche market" :-)

I wish I had enough money to afford one of those high end SMP machines.
I'd happily admit to being a niche if that's all it took.

--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to

Very Computer

Why is SUN falling so far behind IBM?

Why is SUN falling so far behind IBM?

Why is SUN falling so far behind IBM?

Why is SUN falling so far behind IBM?

Why is SUN falling so far behind IBM?

Why is SUN falling so far behind IBM?

Why is SUN falling so far behind IBM?

Why is SUN falling so far behind IBM?

Why is SUN falling so far behind IBM?

Why is SUN falling so far behind IBM?

Why is SUN falling so far behind IBM?

Why is SUN falling so far behind IBM?

Why is SUN falling so far behind IBM?

Why is SUN falling so far behind IBM?