different syntax for "tar" in linux and solaris

different syntax for "tar" in linux and solaris

Post by Dan Espe » Thu, 14 Oct 2004 01:45:15







>>(..)

>>I know (and agree with) all the above. Let's just say, that you seem
>>to have a bit different meaning of 'proprietary' than me (and probably
>>a lot of others).

> Do you know a better way to describe this behavior that deviates from
> standards?

"Non-standard".

In this case, also "not POSIX compliant".

Proprietary isn't the right word.
Even though there may be multiple meanings and you may
interpret one of those meanings to apply, it still isn't
the right word.
Mainly because it has a common meaning in this context which
means owned by someone and closed.

 
 
 

different syntax for "tar" in linux and solaris

Post by Rich Tee » Thu, 14 Oct 2004 01:11:52



> <asbestos suit on>
> The GNU tools are harmful to UNIX in the same way that Microsoft is
> harmful to standards - "embrace and extend".  This is so very obvious
> with the hordes of people who learned something UNIX-like on Linux
> first and wonder why UNIX doesn't work exactly the same way.
> </asbestos>

Well said.  The ironic thing about all that is the well-deserved
hatred most Linux people have for anything M$!  (Yes, I know that
GNU != Linux, despite what RMS and his followers would have us
believe.)  Apparently that hatred doesn't go as far as loathing
M$'s "embrace and extend" mandate against open standards.

--
Rich Teer, SCNA, SCSA, author of "Solaris Systems Programming",
published in August 2004.

President,
Rite Online Inc.

Voice: +1 (250) 979-1638
URL: http://www.rite-group.com/rich

 
 
 

different syntax for "tar" in linux and solaris

Post by Dave Uhrin » Thu, 14 Oct 2004 05:16:17



> And in most cases the reason for the extraction problems today is the fact that
> GNU tar does not follow the POSIX standard when archiving file names > 100
> chars.

GNU tar-1.14 seems to have fixed, finally, that problem.
 
 
 

different syntax for "tar" in linux and solaris

Post by Joerg Schilli » Thu, 14 Oct 2004 04:31:33




>Atro Tossavainen sez:

>>> In solaris
>>> I want same function like "tar cvf home.tar -N yesterday /home " in solaris.
>>> How to use "tar" ?

>> Read the manual page.  Teach yourself to use the UNIX versions of
>> utilities instead of the GNU ones primarily.

>><asbestos suit on>
>> The GNU tools are harmful to UNIX in the same way that Microsoft is
>> harmful to standards - "embrace and extend".  This is so very obvious
>> with the hordes of people who learned something UNIX-like on Linux
>> first and wonder why UNIX doesn't work exactly the same way.
>></asbestos>

>Except of course that's exactly how UNIX works. Solaris tar
>needs "-m" to do what IRIX tar does by default. "hostname -s"

Do tar in IRIX is not OK :-(

This is why standards exist. SUSv2 clearly states that what Sun's tar does
is correct. BTW: standards usually just try to document what most implementaion
do (or the first implementation did).

The existence ot the -m option to tar definitely predates the existence of
SGI.

--



URL:  http://www.fokus.fraunhofer.de/usr/schilling ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily

 
 
 

different syntax for "tar" in linux and solaris

Post by Thomas Dicke » Thu, 14 Oct 2004 09:36:19



> for my eyes, both are proprietary. especially gtar. there are more and more
> tar files around *requiring* gnu tar to extract... most gnu licensed software
> is unfortunately on this road. can't build without gmake, gcc etc, can't use
> without other gnu tools and so on....

none that I work on.

--
Thomas E.*ey
http://www.veryComputer.com/
ftp://invisible-island.net

 
 
 

different syntax for "tar" in linux and solaris

Post by Juhan Leeme » Thu, 14 Oct 2004 07:27:54




>> In solaris
>> I want same function like... How to use "tar" ?

> Read the manual page.  Teach yourself to use the UNIX versions of
> utilities instead of the GNU ones primarily.

> <asbestos suit on>
> The GNU tools are harmful to UNIX in the same way that Microsoft is
> harmful to standards - "embrace and extend".  This is so very obvious
> with the hordes of people who learned something UNIX-like on Linux first
> and wonder why UNIX doesn't work exactly the same way. </asbestos>

You forgot your cast iron shorts?       8^)

I agree with you. I have often encountered resistance on the Linux groups
for proposing more general *nix ways of thinking (e.g. pipes), as opposed
to using some (obscure?) tool switch(es). In some cases, these were POSIX
switches with which I was not familiar, so I learned something. Other
times people argue why not use proprietary extensions for "efficiency".
Dunno about them, but I have most of my CPU power idling around here (or
computing SETI). IMO, *nix is more about a way of thinking: familiarity
with more tools and combinations can handle a wider range of problems.

--
Juhan Leemet
Logicognosis, Inc.

 
 
 

different syntax for "tar" in linux and solaris

Post by Joerg Schilli » Thu, 14 Oct 2004 06:00:47





>> And in most cases the reason for the extraction problems today is the fact that
>> GNU tar does not follow the POSIX standard when archiving file names > 100
>> chars.

>GNU tar-1.14 seems to have fixed, finally, that problem.

Unfortunately not yet. Is is able to read/write POSIX.1-1988, but it by default
still writes the non standard GNU format.

--



URL:  http://www.fokus.fraunhofer.de/usr/schilling ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily

 
 
 

different syntax for "tar" in linux and solaris

Post by Barry Margoli » Thu, 14 Oct 2004 13:37:28






> >Use gnu version of tar.

> A bad idea as GNU tar by default uses a proprietary (non standard)
> way to archive long (> 100 char) filenames.

> This gives massive interoperability problems with tar.

> Better use star.

The OP is looking for compatibility with Linux.  Since Linux comes with
GNU tar by default, using GNU tar on Solaris will provide the
interoperability that he wants.

--

Arlington, MA
*** PLEASE post questions in newsgroups, not directly to me ***

 
 
 

different syntax for "tar" in linux and solaris

Post by Erik Magnus » Thu, 14 Oct 2004 15:23:24



> Not that I'm a GNU/RMS/etc fanatic, but I think that it's _at least_ a
> bit unfair to call the GNU tar format 'proprietary'.

Joerg's definition of 'proprietary' is within the usage of the word in
English (or to be more precise, the usage of the word in the American
engineering community). If GNU tar has a data format unique to GNU
tar, then it is acceptable to say that the format is proprietary to
GNU tar - even if the only reason that it is unique is that no one
else wants to implement it (as opposed to no one being permitted to
implement it). Granted, proprietary does have connotations beyond
uniqueness, but Joerg does have a point that GNU is being obstinate
about not following standards.

- Erik

 
 
 

different syntax for "tar" in linux and solaris

Post by Joerg Schilli » Thu, 14 Oct 2004 16:34:45




Quote:>The OP is looking for compatibility with Linux.  Since Linux comes with
>GNU tar by default, using GNU tar on Solaris will provide the
>interoperability that he wants.

This is an answer of the type:

Use Microsoft on both sides and you will have no problem.....

--



URL:  http://www.fokus.fraunhofer.de/usr/schilling ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily