different syntax for "tar" in linux and solaris

different syntax for "tar" in linux and solaris

Post by Jan Grego » Wed, 13 Oct 2004 15:19:45



Use gnu version of tar.

Jan

 
 
 

different syntax for "tar" in linux and solaris

Post by Joerg Schilli » Wed, 13 Oct 2004 16:31:10




>Linux
>tar cvf home.tar -N yesterday /home

>In solaris
>I want same function like "tar cvf home.tar -N yesterday /home " in solaris.
>How to use "tar" ?

star cvf home.tar -newer yesterday /home

ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/star/alpha/

http://www.blastwave.org/packages.php

--



URL:  http://www.fokus.fraunhofer.de/usr/schilling ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily

 
 
 

different syntax for "tar" in linux and solaris

Post by Joerg Schilli » Wed, 13 Oct 2004 16:35:56




Quote:>Use gnu version of tar.

A bad idea as GNU tar by default uses a proprietary (non standard)
way to archive long (> 100 char) filenames.

This gives massive interoperability problems with tar.

Better use star.

--



URL:  http://www.fokus.fraunhofer.de/usr/schilling ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily

 
 
 

different syntax for "tar" in linux and solaris

Post by Daniel Rychci » Wed, 13 Oct 2004 20:45:51


(..)

I know (and agree with) all the above. Let's just say, that you seem
to have a bit different meaning of 'proprietary' than me (and probably
a lot of others).
                                                                Daniel
--
\ Daniel Rychcik     INTEGRAL Science Data Centre, Versoix/Geneve, CH
 \--------------------------------------------------------------------
  \  GCM/CS/MU/M d- s++:+ a- C+++$ US+++$ P+>++ L+++$ E--- W++ N++ K-
   \ w- O- M PS+ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5 X- R tv b+ D++ G+ e+++ h--- r+++ y+++

 
 
 

different syntax for "tar" in linux and solaris

Post by Joerg Schilli » Wed, 13 Oct 2004 20:30:50





>> Not that I'm a GNU/RMS/etc fanatic, but I think that it's _at least_ a
>> bit unfair to call the GNU tar format 'proprietary'.

>...particularly since most of the definitions for proprietary apply more
>aptly to "star".

Do you like to troll again?

Or do you really miss the knowledge that star is much much closer to standards
(regarding default archive formats _and_ command line syntax) than GNU tar?

--



URL:  http://www.fokus.fraunhofer.de/usr/schilling ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily

 
 
 

different syntax for "tar" in linux and solaris

Post by Joerg Schilli » Wed, 13 Oct 2004 20:55:35





>(..)

>I know (and agree with) all the above. Let's just say, that you seem
>to have a bit different meaning of 'proprietary' than me (and probably
>a lot of others).

Do you know a better way to describe this behavior that deviates from
standards?

--



URL:  http://www.fokus.fraunhofer.de/usr/schilling ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily

 
 
 

different syntax for "tar" in linux and solaris

Post by Joerg Schilli » Wed, 13 Oct 2004 21:09:29





>> Do you know a better way to describe this behavior that deviates from
>> standards?

>It doesn't matter whether the previous poster does or does not.

>In the English sense of the word, which counts, as opposed to the German
>sense, it would be "proprietary" only if FSF did not allow you to find
>out what the behaviour was.  You can read the source code and find out
>for yourself.  It might even be documented somewhere.

As it seems that you are not a native English speaker, I tend not to believe
you as my dictionary tells me different things.....

--



URL:  http://www.fokus.fraunhofer.de/usr/schilling ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily

 
 
 

different syntax for "tar" in linux and solaris

Post by Atro Tossavaine » Wed, 13 Oct 2004 16:54:37



> In solaris
> I want same function like "tar cvf home.tar -N yesterday /home " in solaris.
> How to use "tar" ?

Read the manual page.  Teach yourself to use the UNIX versions of
utilities instead of the GNU ones primarily.

<asbestos suit on>
The GNU tools are harmful to UNIX in the same way that Microsoft is
harmful to standards - "embrace and extend".  This is so very obvious
with the hordes of people who learned something UNIX-like on Linux
first and wonder why UNIX doesn't work exactly the same way.
</asbestos>

--
Atro Tossavainen (Mr.)               / The Institute of Biotechnology at
Systems Analyst, Techno-Amish &     / the University of Helsinki, Finland,
+358-9-19158939  UNIX Dinosaur     / employs me, but my opinions are my own.
< URL : http : / / www . helsinki . fi / %7E atossava / > NO FILE ATTACHMENTS

 
 
 

different syntax for "tar" in linux and solaris

Post by Stephane CHAZELA » Wed, 13 Oct 2004 23:04:21


2004-10-12, 09:41(-04), Oscar del Rio:


>> Do you know a better way to describe this behavior that deviates from
>> standards?

> I would call it "non-standard format"
> Proprietary usually has a meaning of "ownership" or patented, AFAIK.

Isn't the POSIX standard property of the OpenGroup or something?
I think it is even prohibited to reproduce parts of it without
their agreement. It even used not to be freely available,
contrary to the GNU /standard/.

--
Stephane

 
 
 

different syntax for "tar" in linux and solaris

Post by Atro Tossavaine » Wed, 13 Oct 2004 22:32:46



> As it seems that you are not a native English speaker, I tend not
> to believe you as my dictionary tells me different things.....

You are correct, I am not a native English speaker.  So don't believe
me, believe a dictionary.  That _is_ generally a good idea.

Unfortunately, you have to choose carefully as all dictionaries
are not created equal.  Which one are you using?

I am including two dictionary entries for "proprietary" from established
good dictionaries for your benefit.

This is from the Merriam-Webster online dictionary at www.m-w.com:

Main Entry: 1proprietary
Pronunciation: pr&-'prI-&-"ter-E
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -taries
1 : one that possesses, owns, or holds exclusive right to something;
    specifically : PROPRIETOR 1
2 : something that is used, produced, or marketed under exclusive legal
    right of the inventor or maker; specifically : a drug (as a patent
    medicine) that is protected by secrecy, patent, or copyright against
    free competition as to name, product, composition, or process of
    manufacture
3 : a business secretly owned by and run as a cover for an intelligence
    organization

This is from the Oxford English Dictionary at www.oed.com.

proprietary, n. and a.

[I am omitting the noun description as we are discussing the adjective
 and it would not bring any additional information either way.  Feel
 free to look it up.]

    B. adj.

    1. a. Belonging to a proprietor or proprietors; owned or held as property;
held in private ownership.
  In mod. use applied esp. to medicines or other preparations of which the
manufacture or sale is, by patent or otherwise, restricted to a particular
person or persons. proprietary name or term, a word or phrase over which a
person or company has some legal rights, esp. in connection with trade (as
a trade mark).

  1589 PUTTENHAM Eng. Poesie I. xxiv. (Arb.) 62 Worldly goods they come and
go, as things not long proprietary to any body. 1701 GREW Cosm. Sacra III. ii.
38. 99 Though Sheep, which are Proprietary, are seldom Marked, yet they are
not apt to straggle. 1818 HALLAM Mid. Ages (1872) I. ii. I. 147 note, Alodial
lands are commonly opposed to beneficiary or feudal; the former being strictly
proprietary. 1866 G. MACDONALD Ann. Q. Neighb. i, I had formerly officated as
curate in a proprietary chapel. 1900 Westm. Gaz. 22 Mar. 9/1 [They] are now
charging a shilling a pound more for certain well-known proprietary tobacco.
1911 T. Eaton & Co. Catal. Spring & Summer 175 (heading) Proprietary Medicines.
1921 W. A. CRAIGIE Let. 18 Feb. (Oxf. Dict. files), We have expressly
recognized that it [sc. Vaseline] is a proprietary term. 1924 Pocket Oxf.
Dict. 932/1 Vaseline... Proprietary term introduced in 1872 by R. A.
Chesebrough. 1930 Engineering 7 Mar. 304/1 These stock, or proprietary,
engines are made by..specialists. 1930 Economist 22 Nov. 957/1 The Economic
Council was unable to agree as to whether the undertaking by retailers
selling proprietary articles to charge the price fixed by the manufacturers..
should be prohibited. 1933 O.E.D. (new impr.) s.v. Vaseline... A proprietary
term, introduced by R. A. Chesebrough in 1872. Ibid. Suppl. s.v. Ferozone...
Proprietary name. 1958 New Statesman 28 June 822/2 Many [doctors]..tend to
prescribe a well-advertised proprietary brand because they have no time to
consult their list for a cheaper standard preparation. 1972 Physics Bull. Aug.
489/2 `Freon' is the proprietary name for Du Pont's brand of the fluorinated
derivatives of hydrocarbons used as refrigerants and aerosol propellants.
1974 Islander (Victoria, B.C.) 4 Aug. 10/1 By the mid-18th century, more than
200 so-called `proprietary medicines' were being sold in Britain and in the
American colonies.

    b. proprietary company = private company s.v. PRIVATE a. 7h. Austral.

  1896 Companies Act (Victoria, Austral.) 2 `Proprietary Company' means a
company..which..(a) has not more than twenty-five members or shareholders; (b)
does not receive deposits, except from its members or shareholders..; (c)
does not use its title without the addition thereto immediately before the
word `limited' of the word `proprietary'. 1973 R. N. PURVIS Purvis on
Proprietary Companies i. 8 A public company must have at least three
directors, whereas a proprietary company need have only two.

    2. Holding property; that is a proprietor, or consisting of proprietors.

  a1709 ATKYNS Parl. & Pol. Tracts (1734) 409 He would be the great Proprietary
Owner and Disposer of all Estates. 1825 MCCULLOCH Pol. Econ. Introd. 45 The
second, or proprietary class, consists of those who live on the rent of the
land, or on the net surplus produce raised by the cultivators. 1844 LD.
BROUGHAM Brit. Const. vi. (1862) 91 The classes who are without any
property..would overpower the proprietary classes.

    3. Amer. Hist. Pertaining or subject to the proprietor or owner of any one
of certain N. American colonies, which were granted by the Crown to
particular persons; being such a proprietor: see A. 4.

  1704 W. PENN in 15th Rep. Hist. MSS. Comm. App. IV. 79 How much better the
Colonies thrive in proprietary hands than under the immediate Government of the
Crown. 1825 JEFFERSON Autobiog. Wks. 1859 I. 16 The backwardness of these two
colonies might be ascribed partly to the influence of proprietary power and
connections. 1899 Westm. Gaz. 30 Aug. 3/2 The provincial governor was either
royal or proprietary, and his authority was imposed on the colony by the Crown
directly, or by the proprietors through rights granted by the Crown.

    4. Of or relating to property or proprietorship.

  a1832 BENTHAM Anarch. Fallacies Wks. 1843 II. 503 Property stands second on
the list, proprietary rights are in the number of the natural and
imprescriptible rights of man. 1844 H. H. WILSON Brit. India I. 19 The
complicated questions of proprietary right to lands that had repeatedly
changed masters. 1855 MACAULAY Hist. Eng. xviii. IV. 183 William could
defend the proprietary rights of the Crown only by putting his negative
on the bill.

    Hence proprietarily adv., in a proprietary capacity; as a proprietor.

  1654 VILVAIN Theol. Treat. vii. 205 Their progeny..enjoyed it [the promised
land] proprietarily for many ages.

--
Atro Tossavainen (Mr.)               / The Institute of Biotechnology at
Systems Analyst, Techno-Amish &     / the University of Helsinki, Finland,
+358-9-19158939  UNIX Dinosaur     / employs me, but my opinions are my own.
< URL : http : / / www . helsinki . fi / %7E atossava / > NO FILE ATTACHMENTS

 
 
 

different syntax for "tar" in linux and solaris

Post by Thomas Dicke » Wed, 13 Oct 2004 22:40:33




> Do you like to troll again?

no - that's your purpose in life.

Quote:> Or do you really miss the knowledge that star is much much closer to standards
> (regarding default archive formats _and_ command line syntax) than GNU tar?

Any statement coming from you must be tempered by observing that you're
usually wrong.

--
Thomas E.*ey
http://www.veryComputer.com/
ftp://invisible-island.net

 
 
 

different syntax for "tar" in linux and solaris

Post by Joerg Schilli » Wed, 13 Oct 2004 23:51:30




>2004-10-12, 09:41(-04), Oscar del Rio:

>>> Do you know a better way to describe this behavior that deviates from
>>> standards?

>> I would call it "non-standard format"
>> Proprietary usually has a meaning of "ownership" or patented, AFAIK.

>Isn't the POSIX standard property of the OpenGroup or something?
>I think it is even prohibited to reproduce parts of it without
>their agreement. It even used not to be freely available,
>contrary to the GNU /standard/.

Please try to inform yourself before posting.
The POSIX Standard has in 1988 been made by IEEE and now (since ~ 1999)
is been made by The Open Group and taken over by IEEE.

GNU is no standard because it is nothing that people from different places
had _aggreed_ on.

The POSIX standard of course is freely available since many years and
as GNU tar _partially_ adopts to the POSIX.1-1988 standard it seems
that people did spend the 100$ (what it did cost around 1988) to get
access to it, or went into a public library where you could read it for free.

The question is why didn't they follow the standard to archive file names

Quote:> 100 characters...

--



URL:  http://www.fokus.fraunhofer.de/usr/schilling ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily
 
 
 

different syntax for "tar" in linux and solaris

Post by Joerg Schilli » Wed, 13 Oct 2004 23:43:36





>> Do you know a better way to describe this behavior that deviates from
>> standards?

>I would call it "non-standard format"
>Proprietary usually has a meaning of "ownership" or patented, AFAIK.

My dictionary tells me that proprietary also means other variants of
"owned" such as "eigen" as in "Eigenheit" which in English is "peculiar".
Please keep in mind that "priprietary" is derived from a latin word....

--



URL:  http://www.fokus.fraunhofer.de/usr/schilling ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily

 
 
 

different syntax for "tar" in linux and solaris

Post by Beard » Thu, 14 Oct 2004 02:36:36





>>Do you like to troll again?

> no - that's your purpose in life.

>>Or do you really miss the knowledge that star is much much closer to standards
>>(regarding default archive formats _and_ command line syntax) than GNU tar?

> Any statement coming from you must be tempered by observing that you're
> usually wrong.

Joerg has served this NG admirably for ages. You are simply*ey by
name and*ey by nature. FOOOONG, or at least change you name to "Mike
Cox II"
 
 
 

different syntax for "tar" in linux and solaris

Post by Dimitri Maziu » Thu, 14 Oct 2004 01:24:48


Atro Tossavainen sez:


>> In solaris
>> I want same function like "tar cvf home.tar -N yesterday /home " in solaris.
>> How to use "tar" ?

> Read the manual page.  Teach yourself to use the UNIX versions of
> utilities instead of the GNU ones primarily.

><asbestos suit on>
> The GNU tools are harmful to UNIX in the same way that Microsoft is
> harmful to standards - "embrace and extend".  This is so very obvious
> with the hordes of people who learned something UNIX-like on Linux
> first and wonder why UNIX doesn't work exactly the same way.
></asbestos>

Except of course that's exactly how UNIX works. Solaris tar
needs "-m" to do what IRIX tar does by default. "hostname -s"
does different things on IRIX and Solaris. And then there's
my personal favourite: killall.

On some of them you can set ulimit on RSS (aside: why you'd
want to is beyond me), on some you can't. On *BSD you get
current RSS limit in pages, on Linux -- in bytes (or maybe
it's the other way around). On Solaris you can't get it at all.
Etfc.

Dima
--
Politics and religion are just like software and hardware. They all suck, the
documentation is provably incorrect, and all the vendors tell lies.
                                                            -- Andrew Dalgleish