Sun Drops Its Linux Distribution

Sun Drops Its Linux Distribution

Post by William Caruther » Wed, 02 Apr 2003 23:14:45



http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,3959,981353,00.asp

Sun starts on the right road 5 years too late imo.  It will bundle Red Hat
with most of it's hardware from now on.

 
 
 

Sun Drops Its Linux Distribution

Post by John D Groenve » Thu, 03 Apr 2003 02:06:56




>Sun starts on the right road 5 years too late imo.  It will bundle Red Hat
>with most of it's hardware from now on.

Someone must have swiped my funny bone because I don't find your
April Fools joke very amusing. Oh wait, no, my funny bone must be
still there as Aqua on Hyena brought a smile to my face.

Can you clarify?
Thanks,
John


 
 
 

Sun Drops Its Linux Distribution

Post by YTC# » Thu, 03 Apr 2003 06:03:18



> http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,3959,981353,00.asp

> Sun starts on the right road 5 years too late imo.  It will bundle Red Hat
> with most of it's hardware from now on.

  ITYM with most of its x86 hardware from now on. And I still fail to
see why reverting to what is essentially SunOS is viewed as a good thing.

--
Bruce Porter
XJR1300SP, XJ900F, GSX750W, GS550, GSX250, CB175
POTM#1(KoTL), WUSS#1 , YTC#1(bar), OSOS#2(KoTL) , DS#3 , IbW#18 ,Apostle#8
        "The internet is a huge and diverse community
         and not every one is friendly"
http://www.ytc1.co.uk        
There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/

 
 
 

Sun Drops Its Linux Distribution

Post by Rev. Don Koo » Thu, 03 Apr 2003 06:08:41



> http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,3959,981353,00.asp

> Sun starts on the right road 5 years too late imo.  It will bundle Red Hat
> with most of it's hardware from now on.

        "Most of it's [sic] hardware"....  SUN is only supporting LINUX on PCs,
not SPARC.

        Happy to have cleared things up for you,
                        Don

--
***************************   Q: How many frenchmen does it take
* Rev. Don McDonald, SCNA *      to defend Paris?
* Baltimore, MD           *   A: No one knows, it's never been tried.
***************************
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/oldno7/TheFrench.mpg
Reluctant Yamaha YZF-R1 Owner

 
 
 

Sun Drops Its Linux Distribution

Post by Chris Co » Fri, 04 Apr 2003 03:10:06


...

Quote:>  ITYM with most of its x86 hardware from now on. And I still fail to see
> why reverting to what is essentially SunOS is viewed as a good thing.

SunOS.  I don't think so.  You might as well call Solaris some
ancient OS from 1988... oops... maybe you're right.
 
 
 

Sun Drops Its Linux Distribution

Post by YTC# » Fri, 04 Apr 2003 06:43:41




> ...

>>  ITYM with most of its x86 hardware from now on. And I still fail to
>> see why reverting to what is essentially SunOS is viewed as a good thing.

> SunOS.  I don't think so.  You might as well call Solaris some
> ancient OS from 1988... oops... maybe you're right.

Ancient, venerable and stable. I should of course have refered to it as
Solaris 1

--
Bruce Porter
XJR1300SP, XJ900F, GSX750W, GS550, GSX250, CB175
POTM#1(KoTL), WUSS#1 , YTC#1(bar), OSOS#2(KoTL) , DS#3 , IbW#18 ,Apostle#8
        "The internet is a huge and diverse community
         and not every one is friendly"
http://www.ytc1.co.uk        
There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/

 
 
 

Sun Drops Its Linux Distribution

Post by Abuse » Fri, 04 Apr 2003 18:01:36


I've still got a working SunOS 4.1.4 (SS5) system but I must say its a
lot of work to keep running.

Mind you these days running a SunoS 5.8 (Solaris 8) system is starting
to become a pain when compared to Redhat Linux.

Must be getting lazy in my old age, I just get bored having to install
and compile most of the packages I use. Also the last time I setup a
solaris development box I ended up replacing (with GPL software) most of
the native binaries.  Just can't beat those GNU bin/file/sh utils.. Plus
the compilers plus the debuger etc.

Still the Solaris multi-threaded kernel is not to be beaten by Linux, if
only sun would put that functionality into Linux we would be laughing
all the way to a nice stable O/S.

<Wave>




>> ...

>>>  ITYM with most of its x86 hardware from now on. And I still fail to
>>> see why reverting to what is essentially SunOS is viewed as a good
>>> thing.

>> SunOS.  I don't think so.  You might as well call Solaris some
>> ancient OS from 1988... oops... maybe you're right.

> Ancient, venerable and stable. I should of course have refered to it as
> Solaris 1

 
 
 

Sun Drops Its Linux Distribution

Post by Richard L. Hamilt » Fri, 04 Apr 2003 22:12:53




Quote:> I've still got a working SunOS 4.1.4 (SS5) system but I must say its a
> lot of work to keep running.

> Mind you these days running a SunoS 5.8 (Solaris 8) system is starting
> to become a pain when compared to Redhat Linux.

> Must be getting lazy in my old age, I just get bored having to install
> and compile most of the packages I use. Also the last time I setup a
> solaris development box I ended up replacing (with GPL software) most of
> the native binaries.  Just can't beat those GNU bin/file/sh utils.. Plus
> the compilers plus the debuger etc.

> Still the Solaris multi-threaded kernel is not to be beaten by Linux, if
> only sun would put that functionality into Linux we would be laughing
> all the way to a nice stable O/S.

Why would they want to give away one of the best things they have
(the Solaris kernel)?

--

 
 
 

Sun Drops Its Linux Distribution

Post by Tim Bradsha » Sat, 05 Apr 2003 00:04:55



Quote:> Why would they want to give away one of the best things they have
> (the Solaris kernel)?

Because it is fashionable, and it is always important to do what is
fashionable.  I hear large deposits to my bank account are fashionable
too...

--tim

 
 
 

Sun Drops Its Linux Distribution

Post by Chris Co » Sat, 05 Apr 2003 02:27:48




...
>> SunOS.  I don't think so.  You might as well call Solaris some
>> ancient OS from 1988... oops... maybe you're right.

> Ancient, venerable and stable. I should of course have refered to it as
> Solaris 1

Actually I was referring to the ancient SVR4 base from AT&T back
when Sun sold their soul to them.  Then they split and now we
have two somewhat different Unix implementations... SVR4 and SVR4 (the
Sun version).

For every 1 hour I spend in Linux doing maintenance (which
fortunateley isn't SVR4), I spend at least 3 in Solaris.  Ancient,
venerable and stable.... there's a price to pay I suppose.

 
 
 

Sun Drops Its Linux Distribution

Post by Alan Coopersmit » Sat, 05 Apr 2003 03:06:32



|For every 1 hour I spend in Linux doing maintenance (which
|fortunateley isn't SVR4), I spend at least 3 in Solaris.  Ancient,
|venerable and stable.... there's a price to pay I suppose.

That may be in part due to familiarity with the systems.  I find
for every admin-type task I try to perform on Linux it takes me much
longer than Solaris since I know how to do it in Solaris without
resorting to googling for HOWTO's or wondering why noone made Linux
autofs properly support /net yet.  And half the things I learned how to
do on RedHat 7 I need to learn new ways to do on RedHat 8, since
linuxconf is gone and various other changes have been made.  

--
________________________________________________________________________


  Working for, but definitely not speaking for, Sun Microsystems, Inc.

 
 
 

Sun Drops Its Linux Distribution

Post by Chris Co » Sat, 05 Apr 2003 03:17:46




...
>>Still the Solaris multi-threaded kernel is not to be beaten by Linux, if
>>only sun would put that functionality into Linux we would be laughing
>>all the way to a nice stable O/S.

> Why would they want to give away one of the best things they have
> (the Solaris kernel)?

IMHO, there's no need for Linux to degrade to Unix.  One could
just as easily argue for the features in the Linux kernel to be
placed into Solaris (in fact, the list is much longer going that
way).  I'm not convinced of the superiority of the Solaris
"multi-threaded kernel" implementation... but it certainly
has the maturity that Linux lacks.

Don't get me wrong, Solaris is solid and somewhat well supported
(somewhat since the support seems to be degrading over time).
But as the Rev will gladly say... GNU Linux is not Unix... and
that's a good thing IMHO.  Time to move away from the folks
who prefer lawsuits to supporting customers.  Are there some
very important elements in Unix that appear to be working
better than Linux, perhaps so... as the Rev would say, Linux
is a "hobbiest" OS... that is to say, it's in a constant state
of evolution.  And moving forward is not a bad thing, though
it moves people away from their comfort zone of dealing
with the "tried and true" older and perceived to be more
stable technologies.  Ultimately, it's about making money.
People like old and reliable.

My GNU Linux host uptimes are usually twice as long as Solaris just
because of better live upgrade/patch features found in GNU Linux.
The Solaris answer is throw expensive HW (virtual or otherwise)
at the issue (live upgrades through redundant hw).  Certainly any OS,
even Windows, can use that approach to "reliability".  But it's a
band-aid kind of approach to sys admin (one which avoids the
radical changes it would take to implement in Unix/Windows).
Of course, I don't run Linux on extremely high hardware.  But
I have replaced $75K-150K Sun boxes with <$10K Linux platforms
without any change in performance or reliability.  Not sure
about replacing the $500K-$xM types... there really is no
Linux equivalent today (apart from some not quite ready for
prime time stuff... or the z-Series efforts).

I can't say if Sun is working on a next generation Solaris or not.
But I think it would be a great idea for them.  But I doubt
seriously they have the in-house expertise to even fully
comprehend the menagerie that is Solaris today (well, the have
expertise, but probably not the time to unravel the mysteries).
Certainly they understand parts of it, but they didn't write 50-75%
of the code base.  Microsoft (though to a much lesser extent)
faces some similar issues due to attrition over time.  So realistically,
I think we can expect further small steps of evolution in
future releases of Solaris (just like we've seen going from
2.0 to 9) mostly centered on augementing and fixing of
the existing code base.  This of course is great for
corporate enterprises because they don't like radical
change (even when the cost benefits are high... "if it
ain't broke, don't fix it").

Sun, being a hardware company primarily, has a natural
advantage against Linux and Windows because of the
benefits of operating on their own platform.  I'm amazed
at the benchmarks where Linux ousts Solaris.. I mean,
if you can tie yourself so close to the hardware, you
really shouldn't lose any race?!  Again, I attribute
that to the normal corporate politics of big business.
Can it be fixed?  Sure, and I'm sure that over time
Sun will address the deficiencies (as they are priortized
in the light of other market driven requests) and in all
fairness.. Sun should win EVERY time (against Linux and
Windows in particular).  I'm just amazed when they don't.

Sorry about the long message.  Solaris is a great OS.  But
it's not likely that Sun (even combined with HP and IBM)
will hire every "top of their class" techie in the universe
(probably never), so Linux continues to move forward (obviously
there is a mix of experience levels working on Linux.. which
is also a good thing IMHO).

I'm more pragmatic instead of dogmatic.  I won't say
run Solaris ONLY (like many say on this group)... likewise,
I won't say run Linux ONLY (also said by many in this group).
Use what works and makes the customer happy.  Even when it's
Windows (as the Rev pointed out, in his opinion that's a
better choice than GNU Linux... but that's being dogmatic
again).

 
 
 

Sun Drops Its Linux Distribution

Post by Rev. Don Koo » Sat, 05 Apr 2003 08:01:07




>>> Still the Solaris multi-threaded kernel is not to be beaten by Linux,
>>> if only sun would put that functionality into Linux we would be
>>> laughing all the way to a nice stable O/S.
>> Why would they want to give away one of the best things they have
>> (the Solaris kernel)?
> IMHO, there's no need for Linux to degrade to Unix.

        "Degrade"...  nice troll bait there, my penguin entranced young friend.
  LOL!!

Quote:> One could
> just as easily argue for the features in the Linux kernel to be
> placed into Solaris (in fact, the list is much longer going that
> way).  

        Or features of Windows, OpenVMS, DOS, etc. since you're touting adding
non UNIX features to the SOLARIS UNIX kernel.

Quote:> I'm not convinced of the superiority of the Solaris
> "multi-threaded kernel" implementation... but it certainly
> has the maturity that Linux lacks.

> Don't get me wrong, Solaris is solid and somewhat well supported
> (somewhat since the support seems to be degrading over time).
> But as the Rev will gladly say... GNU Linux is not Unix... and
> that's a good thing IMHO.  

        <...immature editorializing snipped...>

Quote:>  Are there some
> very important elements in Unix that appear to be working
> better than Linux, perhaps so... as the Rev would say, Linux
> is a "hobbiest" OS... that is to say, it's in a constant state
> of evolution.  And moving forward is not a bad thing, though
> it moves people away from their comfort zone of dealing
> with the "tried and true" older and perceived to be more
> stable technologies.  Ultimately, it's about making money.
> People like old and reliable.

        "Old and reliable" is generally a good thing to base multimillion
dollar production systems on.  Job security generally suffers when
production systems pile up downtime waiting for "sURferDuDE" to come up
with a patch in his free time.

Quote:> My GNU Linux host uptimes are usually twice as long as Solaris just
> because of better live upgrade/patch features found in GNU Linux.
> The Solaris answer is throw expensive HW (virtual or otherwise)
> at the issue (live upgrades through redundant hw).  Certainly any OS,
> even Windows, can use that approach to "reliability".  But it's a
> band-aid kind of approach to sys admin (one which avoids the
> radical changes it would take to implement in Unix/Windows).
> Of course, I don't run Linux on extremely high hardware.  But
> I have replaced $75K-150K Sun boxes with <$10K Linux platforms
> without any change in performance or reliability.  Not sure
> about replacing the $500K-$xM types... there really is no
> Linux equivalent today (apart from some not quite ready for
> prime time stuff... or the z-Series efforts).

        Exactly.  You lack the experience to make an intelligent choice.

Quote:> I can't say if Sun is working on a next generation Solaris or not.

        Of course they are, SOLARIS 10.

Quote:> But I think it would be a great idea for them.  But I doubt
> seriously they have the in-house expertise to even fully
> comprehend the menagerie that is Solaris today (well, the have
> expertise, but probably not the time to unravel the mysteries).
> Certainly they understand parts of it, but they didn't write 50-75%
> of the code base.  Microsoft (though to a much lesser extent)
> faces some similar issues due to attrition over time.  So realistically,
> I think we can expect further small steps of evolution in
> future releases of Solaris (just like we've seen going from
> 2.0 to 9) mostly centered on augementing and fixing of
> the existing code base.  This of course is great for
> corporate enterprises because they don't like radical
> change (even when the cost benefits are high... "if it
> ain't broke, don't fix it").

        Your are of course, in way over your head here, Chris.  "Corporate
Enterprises" are not in the business of LINTEL advocacy.  They can't
tinker while Rome burns.

        <...remaining misplaced LINTEL advocacy
        and confusion over how enterprise IT
        works snipped...>

                Hope this helps,
                        Don

--
***************************   Q: How many frenchmen does it take
* Rev. Don McDonald, SCNA *      to defend Paris?
* Baltimore, MD           *   A: No one knows, it's never been tried.
***************************
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/oldno7/TheFrench.mpg
Reluctant Yamaha YZF-R1 Owner

 
 
 

Sun Drops Its Linux Distribution

Post by Rev. Don Koo » Sat, 05 Apr 2003 08:02:45





>>> SunOS.  I don't think so.  You might as well call Solaris some
>>> ancient OS from 1988... oops... maybe you're right.
>> Ancient, venerable and stable. I should of course have refered to it
>> as Solaris 1
> Actually I was referring to the ancient SVR4 base from AT&T back
> when Sun sold their soul to them.  Then they split and now we
> have two somewhat different Unix implementations... SVR4 and SVR4 (the
> Sun version).

> For every 1 hour I spend in Linux doing maintenance (which
> fortunateley isn't SVR4), I spend at least 3 in Solaris.  Ancient,
> venerable and stable.... there's a price to pay I suppose.

        Perhaps you should ask your parents to spring for a competent UNIX
Systems Administrator to make ba*t calls.

                Hope this helps,
                        Don

--
***************************   Q: How many frenchmen does it take
* Rev. Don McDonald, SCNA *      to defend Paris?
* Baltimore, MD           *   A: No one knows, it's never been tried.
***************************
http://www.veryComputer.com/
Reluctant Yamaha YZF-R1 Owner

 
 
 

Sun Drops Its Linux Distribution

Post by David Magd » Sat, 05 Apr 2003 08:02:48


[...]

Quote:> Must be getting lazy in my old age, I just get bored having to
> install and compile most of the packages I use. Also the last time
> I setup a solaris development box I ended up replacing (with GPL
> software) most of the native binaries.  Just can't beat those GNU
> bin/file/sh utils.. Plus the compilers plus the debuger etc.

Have you looked at www.openpkg.org? A multi-Unix
auto-compile/auto-dependency check system. Supposed to be very
good. (Haven't used it personally since I'm happy with FreeBSD's
Ports system.)

--
David Magda <dmagda at ee.ryerson.ca>
Because the innovator has for enemies all those who have done well under
the old conditions, and lukewarm defenders in those who may do well
under the new. -- Niccolo Machiavelli, _The Prince_, Chapter VI

 
 
 

1. Sun Drops Its Linux Distribution

http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,3959,981353,00.asp

'In a major strategy shift, Sun Microsystems Inc. officials said it
 will stop offering its own customized version of Linux and will
 instead turn to several other standard Linux distributions.'

I was surprised when Sun announced their plan to produce their own
Linux distro. Could be a big win for Red Hat.

2. Q:chfn equivalentin solaris

3. SUMMARY: FIXED BY SUN - Sun DROPS SUPPORT OF 4/470 4/490 for Solaris

4. xargs and tcsh shell

5. Telebit/Suns dropping characters at uucp login

6. SB-16 SCSI

7. Sun DROPS SUPPORT OF 4/470 4/490 LINE FOR SOLARIS 2.x

8. Compiling Kernel 1.2.13?

9. SUN RAM Prices dropping?

10. Sun drops x86 laptop driver support!

11. Promiscuous Mode on Sun BGE Network Driver Drops VLAN-tagged Packets

12. Why is Sun dropping Solaris ?

13. Is SUN dropping NIS+ ?