Very Computer

by **Eric Edwar** » Wed, 11 Mar 1998 04:00:00

I recently installed Solaris 2.6 and now I find that slrn runs very
slowly in dtterm. Other apps are harder to judge, but slrn is much
more slugish in a dtterm than an xterm and much more sluggish than a
dtterm under Solaris 2.5. What gives? I've already installed the Motif
patch, but it didn't seem to help. (This problem, at least. Nedit is
now much faster)

--
"Courtesy" Copies are anything but. Help stamp out this rude practice.
Configure your news reader to not send email copies of usenet posts.

by **Casper H.S. Dik - Network Security Engine** » Thu, 12 Mar 1998 04:00:00

[[ PLEASE DON'T SEND ME EMAIL COPIES OF POSTINGS ]]

>Hmmm, that's something I have done myself, through Knews.
>I always thought it was an OK thing to do.
>I didn't realise people found it offensive.

I hate them too (that's why I added the line to teh start of all my
postings).

It's worse then SPAM>

Quote:>Can anyone explain why? I've never minded receiving email posts
>that have also later turned up in my news spool.

Well, I usually am pretty quick in answering email and I tend to read the
news too. But I don't tend to keep around stuff I send on such
emails.

So what happens? I see teh sam emessgae in news somewhat later and
I either withold the reply from all the otehr newsreaders or
I'm forced to spend yet more time replyign to it.

They waste my time.

Quote:>What I find extremely obnoxious is HTML posts in news and email,
>for the usual obvious reasons, but "courtesy" copies surprise me!

I hate HTML postings too. Especially since *all* the HTML posts I've
ever seen are nothing other than a simpel ASCII->HTML mapping,
including tons of  .

Perhaps one day we could write a new transport that just strips those.
(Or junks/cancels them). If you must post HTML, just post the URL
to it.

Casper
--
Expressed in this posting are my opinions. They are in no way related
to opinions held by my employer, Sun Microsystems.
Statements on Sun products included here are not gospel and may
be fiction rather than truth.

by **Antonio Freix** » Thu, 12 Mar 1998 04:00:00

>>Can anyone explain why? I've never minded receiving email posts
>>that have also later turned up in my news spool.

> Well, I usually am pretty quick in answering email and I tend to read the
> news too. But I don't tend to keep around stuff I send on such
> emails.

> So what happens? I see the same message in news somewhat later and
> I either withold the reply from all the other newsreaders or
> I'm forced to spend yet more time replying to it.

> They waste my time.

Personally, I like courtesy copies and hope that people don't stop
sending them. Usually what happens to me is that I will post something
in a group such as comp.lang.java.gui. I don't always remember the
subject I posted (I may be following up on someone else's posting).
The next day, I find several hundred messages, some possibly including
followups on my messages. But I'm lucky if I find my responses.

This hunting process is a waste of time. As for Casper's problem, I
think posting a message about not wanting courtesy copies is fine.
Maybe I'll start posting the opposite message. But I want the e-mail
reply to state that the message is also being posted. For Casper, this
could be a signal to ignore replying to the e-mail and just reply to
the newsgroup followup.

knews automatically adds such a message in the reply/post situation.

Obviously, "courtesy" copies to this e-mail are fine.

--
Antonio Freixas

(503) 626-5433

by **Sven Guck** » Thu, 12 Mar 1998 04:00:00

Quote:> [[ PLEASE DON'T SEND ME EMAIL COPIES OF POSTINGS ]]
> >I didn't realise people found it offensive.
> I hate them too (that's why I added the line to teh start of all my postings).

Well, please don't. For these reasons:

(1) The text usually does not meet the subject or topic. Annoying!
(2) It gets quoted and not removed (such as in this post ;-).
(3) It requires the person to followup to see this line *and* react to it.
However, it is better to have the newsreader detect this for him and
act accordingly by warning that person.

Actually, there is a way for this already: The "Mail-Copies-To:" line.
And please tell others about it!

Quote:> Well, I usually am pretty quick in answering email and I tend to read the
> news too. But I don't tend to keep around stuff I send on such emails.
> So what happens? I see the same messages in news somewhat later and
> I either withold the reply from all the other newsreaders or
> I'm forced to spend yet more time replying to it. They waste my time.

I can understand - but maybe you didn't realize that there is an easier way:
Reply to the email and place it as a postponed post by your newsreader.
When the followup comes then you can "post the postponed post". %-}

Quote:> Perhaps one day we could write a new transport that just strips those.

I hear it already exists. It's called "scoring" aka "killfile". :-)

Sven

--

"Mail-Copies-To: never" if you do not want any CCs of followups
"Mail-Copies-To: address" to direct CCs of followups to some address [980311]
"Mail-Copies-To: poster" to direct CCs of followups to the address in "From:"

by **Paul Egge** » Thu, 12 Mar 1998 04:00:00

> What gives?

My impression, without any knowledge of what actually happened, is that
dtterm's features were specified by a committee, and its implementers
were on a tight schedule and didn't care too much about performance as
long as the functionality was there.

In contrast, xterm is a smaller program written by hackers who had
plenty of time and motivation to make it fast. It's kind of ugly
inside, but it does the job.

I use xterm, even though I run the CDE window manager on Solaris 2.6
(sparc). xterm is _much_ faster. And when I log into other sites
they know the xterm terminal type; they don't know dtterm.

I don't see any good reason to switch from xterm to dtterm. Maybe in a
few years, after TERM=dtterm is understood everywhere, and assuming
dtterm is still around and its implementers get around to tuning it.

by **Casper H.S. Dik - Network Security Engine** » Thu, 12 Mar 1998 04:00:00

[[ PLEASE DON'T SEND ME EMAIL COPIES OF POSTINGS ]]

>Actually, there is a way for this already: The "Mail-Copies-To:" line.
>And please tell others about it!

I found that it doesn't work. (Newsreaders get more broken everyday
now that M$ and Netscape have done their own)

Casper
--
Expressed in this posting are my opinions. They are in no way related
to opinions held by my employer, Sun Microsystems.
Statements on Sun products included here are not gospel and may
be fiction rather than truth.

by **Antonio Freix** » Fri, 13 Mar 1998 04:00:00

>>Actually, there is a way for this already: The "Mail-Copies-To:" line.
>>And please tell others about it!

> I found that it doesn't work. (Newsreaders get more broken everyday
> now that M$ and Netscape have done their own)

Since you've gotten so many "courtesy" replies, probably from a
variety of news readers, have you noticed any common features of the
headers that could let you filter out these e-mails?

I got a courtesy response from Hrvoje Niksic to my previous posting
and I noticed a "Newsgroups:" header. Even if not all news readers
provides this header, as long as each one provides something unique,
it would be easy to filter out these responses.

--
Antonio Freixas

(503) 626-5433

by **Russ Allber** » Fri, 13 Mar 1998 04:00:00

Quote:> I got a courtesy response from Hrvoje Niksic to my previous posting and
> I noticed a "Newsgroups:" header. Even if not all news readers provides
> this header, as long as each one provides something unique, it would be
> easy to filter out these responses.

Some newsreaders include the Newsgroups: header in the e-mail regardless
of whether the message was also posted or not.

--

by **Keith Par** » Fri, 13 Mar 1998 04:00:00

Had the same problem here, ran like a dog, just refreshing the
screen took several seconds.

I also think dtterms are real slow in starting through CDE menu's
etc. It sometimes takes 15 seconds from selection to the window
appearing onscreen!! (Sparc2 32M)

In the end I grabbed rxvt from somewhere on the web, built it and
setup an action to start slrn in an rxvt window. It's onscreen in an
instant and scrolling is as fast as you can press <down/up arrow>

Keith.

>I recently installed Solaris 2.6 and now I find that slrn runs very
>slowly in dtterm. Other apps are harder to judge, but slrn is much
>more slugish in a dtterm than an xterm and much more sluggish than a
>dtterm under Solaris 2.5. What gives? I've already installed the Motif
>patch, but it didn't seem to help. (This problem, at least. Nedit is
>now much faster)

by **John More** » Fri, 13 Mar 1998 04:00:00

> >>Actually, there is a way for this already: The "Mail-Copies-To:" line.
> >>And please tell others about it!

> > I found that it doesn't work. (Newsreaders get more broken everyday
> > now that M$ and Netscape have done their own)

It doesn't work 100% because not every newsreader supports it, and the
reader always has the option of overriding it (at least with all
implementations that I am aware of).

If it's not of interest (and even if it is) respond with a note pointing
out that you had the header in your message, and they should use a
newsreader that honors it.

Quote:> Since you've gotten so many "courtesy" replies, probably from a
> variety of news readers, have you noticed any common features of the
> headers that could let you filter out these e-mails?

> I got a courtesy response from Hrvoje Niksic to my previous posting
> and I noticed a "Newsgroups:" header. Even if not all news readers
> provides this header, as long as each one provides something unique,
> it would be easy to filter out these responses.

Newsgroups is a common header to be included as is References - but
neither is 100% certain as they are also included by programs sending
mail replies only.

> --
> Antonio Freixas

> (503) 626-5433

A sig should be preceded by a sigdash which consist of two dashes
followed by a space - that's dash dash space, i.e. "-- ".

--
John Moreno
I am trying to convince the author of YA-NewsWatcher that the latest
version should be released to the public. He doesn't think there's much
interest in a new version. Help me prove him wrong. To do so, send me

on what you like/dislike in the current version will be appreciated.

by **Jan Hlavac** » Sat, 14 Mar 1998 04:00:00

Quote:> Had the same problem here, ran like a dog, just refreshing the
> screen took several seconds.

> I also think dtterms are real slow in starting through CDE menu's
> etc. It sometimes takes 15 seconds from selection to the window
> appearing onscreen!! (Sparc2 32M)

And the startup time of dtwm and all the front panels...
After our department upgraded to Solaris 2.6, I was getting really
upset every time I loged on. Then I figured out how to make my fvwm a
rxvt working in the new environment, and now everything works fast
again.

Get rxvt and forget about dtterm!

lahvak
--
Jan Hlav\'{a}\v{c}ek

www: http://www.math.ohio-state.edu/~lahvak/

Very Computer

dtterm very slow with Solaris 2.6

dtterm very slow with Solaris 2.6

dtterm very slow with Solaris 2.6

dtterm very slow with Solaris 2.6

dtterm very slow with Solaris 2.6

dtterm very slow with Solaris 2.6

dtterm very slow with Solaris 2.6

dtterm very slow with Solaris 2.6

dtterm very slow with Solaris 2.6

dtterm very slow with Solaris 2.6

dtterm very slow with Solaris 2.6

dtterm very slow with Solaris 2.6