Sun collapsing

Sun collapsing

Post by James smyt » Mon, 02 Jun 2003 13:09:04



Sun Microsystems held onto the third position in total sales, despite the biggest
revenue decline among all the top vendors. Sun moved $1.35 billion in servers for
the quarter but coughed up 1.7 points of market share and saw revenue shrink by
15.3 percent.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/61/30964.html

 
 
 

Sun collapsing

Post by Terr » Mon, 02 Jun 2003 14:46:36





> > Sun Microsystems held onto the third position in total sales, despite
the
> > biggest revenue decline among all the top vendors. Sun moved $1.35
billion in servers
> > for the quarter but coughed up 1.7 points of market share and saw
revenue shrink
> > by 15.3 percent.

> > http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/61/30964.html

>                                      ____________________
>                         /|  /| |                         |
>                         ||__|| |      Please do not      |
>                        /   O O\__    feed the Trolls.    |
>                       /          \      Thank You.       |
>                      /      \     \                      |
>                     /   _    \     \---------------------
>                    /    |\____\     \     ||
>                   /     | | | |\____/     ||
>                  /       \|_|_|/   |     _||
>                 /  /  \            |____| ||
>                /   |   |           |      --|
>                |   |   |           |____  --|
>         * _    |  |_|_|_|          |     \-/
>      *-- _--\ _ \                  |      ||
>        /  _     \\        |        /      `
>      *  /   \_ /- |       |       |
>        *      ___ c_c_c_C/ \C_c_c_c____________

> What is a troll:

> 1. Someone who posts or responds to postings on a newsgroup with the
> sole intention of starting a flame war
> 2. Someone who feels they have to respond to every badly-spelt,
> poorly-worded personal, usually with something quite offensive
> 3. Someone who feels they have to share their prejudices with the world,
> and impose them on UAP
> 4. Someone who posts many inane or offensive messages for no other
> reason than that they can

> --
> DeeDee, don't press that button!  DeeDee!  NO!  Dee...

Ok, I know I'm new here, but what makes the original post a troll post? It
was merely quoting an article on theregister.com stating that Sun's
marketshare has dropped 1.7% and held the 3rd highest sales position amongst
vendors. How is this a troll posting?

Terry

 
 
 

Sun collapsing

Post by Donn Mille » Mon, 02 Jun 2003 15:36:45



> Ok, I know I'm new here, but what makes the original post a troll post? It
> was merely quoting an article on theregister.com stating that Sun's
> marketshare has dropped 1.7% and held the 3rd highest sales position amongst
> vendors. How is this a troll posting?

It's something that belongs in an advocacy newsgroup, like
comp.os.linux.advocacy, or comp.unix.advocacy.

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Sun collapsing

Post by Steven Schneide » Mon, 02 Jun 2003 15:27:38







>> > Sun Microsystems held onto the third position in total sales, despite
> the
>> > biggest revenue decline among all the top vendors. Sun moved $1.35
> billion in servers
>> > for the quarter but coughed up 1.7 points of market share and saw
> revenue shrink
>> > by 15.3 percent.

>> > http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/61/30964.html

>>                                      ____________________
>>                         /|  /| |                         |
>>                         ||__|| |      Please do not      |
>>                        /   O O\__    feed the Trolls.    |
>>                       /          \      Thank You.       |
>>                      /      \     \                      |
>>                     /   _    \     \---------------------
>>                    /    |\____\     \     ||
>>                   /     | | | |\____/     ||
>>                  /       \|_|_|/   |     _||
>>                 /  /  \            |____| ||
>>                /   |   |           |      --|
>>                |   |   |           |____  --|
>>         * _    |  |_|_|_|          |     \-/
>>      *-- _--\ _ \                  |      ||
>>        /  _     \\        |        /      `
>>      *  /   \_ /- |       |       |
>>        *      ___ c_c_c_C/ \C_c_c_c____________

> Ok, I know I'm new here, but what makes the original post a troll post? It
> was merely quoting an article on theregister.com stating that Sun's
> marketshare has dropped 1.7% and held the 3rd highest sales position amongst
> vendors. How is this a troll posting?

/lurk mode off

Hi Terry,

I'm only a lurker in this site, but I think I'll try and take a stab
at answering that question.

I think that the op can be looked on as a troll because he just
dropped that article in here and left.  The people in this ng are
here because they use or like Solaris, perhaps both.  If the op were
sincere he would have asked for other poster's insights and maybe
apoligize for what he was about to post.

I myself am an OBSD user and know how I'd feel if someone just
dropped such an article in the OBSD ng/mailing list.  Conversly, if
I wanted to incite the posters in another ng (not that I do, mind
you) I would probably perform something similar.  That is, find an
article that speaks badly of something that that community likes to
talk about.

Perhaps the op did *not* mean to troll, but the way it was done
certainly gives that impression.  Once again, if he's sincere he'll
probably try and backpedal when the flames start flying.  Otherwise
he'll just sit back and enjoy the show.

HTH

/lurk mode on
--

 
 
 

Sun collapsing

Post by James smyt » Tue, 03 Jun 2003 06:25:06







> > > Sun Microsystems held onto the third position in total sales, despite
> the
> > > biggest revenue decline among all the top vendors. Sun moved $1.35
> billion in servers
> > > for the quarter but coughed up 1.7 points of market share and saw
> revenue shrink
> > > by 15.3 percent.

> > > http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/61/30964.html
> Ok, I know I'm new here, but what makes the original post a troll post? It
> was merely quoting an article on theregister.com stating that Sun's
> marketshare has dropped 1.7% and held the 3rd highest sales position amongst
> vendors. How is this a troll posting?

Unfortunately many people involved with Sun, either as customers or even
management, suffer from this blinkered view when bad news arrives.  Worse than a
1.3% marketshare drop is the drop of over 15% in revenues, this is going to make
it hard for Sun to put the investment it needs to behind Linux in order to grow
and carry on as an independent company.

Another 15% drop next year and Sun has just contracted as a company by almost
one-third, they will need to lay off a similar percentage of their workforce just
to balance their books.  Sun is being eaten by a cancer within, better known as
solaris advocates.  These people are paralysing the forward thinking people in
management who would like to drop solaris and move forward the only way they can,
under the heavyweight banner of Linux.

Linux is coming to the rescue of all the old unix shops, IBM, HP/Compaq etc and
unless Sun stakes a claim now, they are going to be playing catch up for decades.
It's vital if Sun is to avoid bankruptcy or a buy out, to make a claim as being
the number 1 provider of Linux solutions in the world.  At the moment they aren't
even competing and HP and IBM are powering forward uncontested.  Sun will fall
behind Dell this year and out of the top 5 server providers within 12 months
because of the cancer stopping the company from changing to market conditions.

Sad but true.

 
 
 

Sun collapsing

Post by Greg Menk » Tue, 03 Jun 2003 06:40:19









> > > > Sun Microsystems held onto the third position in total sales, despite
> > the
> > > > biggest revenue decline among all the top vendors. Sun moved $1.35
> > billion in servers
> > > > for the quarter but coughed up 1.7 points of market share and saw
> > revenue shrink
> > > > by 15.3 percent.

> > > > http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/61/30964.html

> > Ok, I know I'm new here, but what makes the original post a troll post? It
> > was merely quoting an article on theregister.com stating that Sun's
> > marketshare has dropped 1.7% and held the 3rd highest sales position amongst
> > vendors. How is this a troll posting?

> Unfortunately many people involved with Sun, either as customers or even
> management, suffer from this blinkered view when bad news arrives.  Worse than a
> 1.3% marketshare drop is the drop of over 15% in revenues, this is going to make
> it hard for Sun to put the investment it needs to behind Linux in order to grow
> and carry on as an independent company.

> Another 15% drop next year and Sun has just contracted as a company by almost
> one-third, they will need to lay off a similar percentage of their workforce just
> to balance their books.  Sun is being eaten by a cancer within, better known as
> solaris advocates.  These people are paralysing the forward thinking people in
> management who would like to drop solaris and move forward the only way they can,
> under the heavyweight banner of Linux.

> Linux is coming to the rescue of all the old unix shops, IBM, HP/Compaq etc and
> unless Sun stakes a claim now, they are going to be playing catch up for decades.
> It's vital if Sun is to avoid bankruptcy or a buy out, to make a claim as being
> the number 1 provider of Linux solutions in the world.  At the moment they aren't
> even competing and HP and IBM are powering forward uncontested.  Sun will fall
> behind Dell this year and out of the top 5 server providers within 12 months
> because of the cancer stopping the company from changing to market conditions.

> Sad but true.

The same thing that makes your posting a troll post.  You make a lot
of assertions, do you have citations for them, or is this only your
opinion?

Gregm

 
 
 

Sun collapsing

Post by Paul Egger » Tue, 03 Jun 2003 07:07:51



> > Ok, I know I'm new here, but what makes the original post a troll post?

For one thing, the poster has all the hallmarks of a troller.  He
posts under different names ("John Miller", "Lance Armstrong", "James
smyth", etc.) but whenever it's about Sun it's negative.  Google says
that most of his postings are about * and/or football (soccer
to Americans).  I've heard of such people being hired to troll by
competitors.

For another, he selectively quotes his source.  That same IDC report
says that HP's Unix server market share dropped 2.5 points and its
revenue dropped 11.7%, but he did not claim that HP is "collapsing".

Don't get me wrong: 1Q2003 was a bad quarter for Sun, but it wasn't as
bad as "James smythe" implies.  If you're really interested in this
topic, though, you should be looking at responsible sources, not at
what a troller has to say.

 
 
 

Sun collapsing

Post by Divya Sundar » Tue, 03 Jun 2003 07:44:54


Note: Follows Set to comp.sys.sun.misc.


> Another 15% drop next year and Sun has just contracted as a company by almost
> one-third, they will need to lay off a similar percentage of their workforce just
> to balance their books.  Sun is being eaten by a cancer within, better known as
> solaris advocates.  These people are paralysing the forward thinking people in
> management who would like to drop solaris and move forward the only way they can,
> under the heavyweight banner of Linux.

> Linux is coming to the rescue of all the old unix shops, IBM, HP/Compaq etc and
> unless Sun stakes a claim now, they are going to be playing catch up for decades.
> It's vital if Sun is to avoid bankruptcy or a buy out, to make a claim as being
> the number 1 provider of Linux solutions in the world.  At the moment they aren't
> even competing and HP and IBM are powering forward uncontested.  Sun will fall
> behind Dell this year and out of the top 5 server providers within 12 months
> because of the cancer stopping the company from changing to market conditions.

If anyone believes that its in Sun's best interest to drop Solaris in
favor of Linux in the next 18 months, they're deluding themselves. At
best, this adoption must occur over a 4-5year timeframe (do you realize
how many people are STILL running SunOS 4.1.4?)

Also, I for one don't believe that Linux is the solution to everyone's
needs. Why can't all the opensource tools available for Solaris be made
available for Solaris x86 and SPARC? And why do you think that Sun cannot
compete with Linux shops on that basis.

Today, Linux distros have made a total mess of the systems by using things
like RPM to blur the lines between Operating Systems and applications. The
RPM Hell is much worse the DLL Hell that Microsoft has bestowed upon us.
Solaris is MUCH MUCH cleaner than Linux.

What's the point? Well, it makes Solaris systems management a crap-load
easier (IMO). Solaris, for the next couple of years, will be able to
maintain its maturity level (although I do expect Linux to close this
gap).

If Sun wants to play in the x86 space, they should concentrate on making
Solaris x86 better to use, install and support. Add new device drivers and
pursue further the provision of commercial support for open source tools
on Solaris x86 and SOlaris SPARC (e.g. mySQL).

I love Linux on my desktop, but I am not ready to recommend it to anyone
for use in a very controlled Data Center environment anytime soon.

 
 
 

Sun collapsing

Post by Alex Buel » Tue, 03 Jun 2003 07:37:04



> Sad but true.

Troll.  

--
http://www.munted.org.uk - updated 28/03/2003.

If you want efficiency, use C. If you want to suffer, use C++.

 
 
 

Sun collapsing

Post by Dan Espe » Tue, 03 Jun 2003 09:36:38


b> Note: Follows Set to comp.sys.sun.misc.


>> Another 15% drop next year and Sun has just contracted as a company by almost
>> one-third, they will need to lay off a similar percentage of their workforce just
>> to balance their books.

snipped some dubious stuff about Sun's future being in Linux.

Quote:> Today, Linux distros have made a total mess of the systems by using things
> like RPM to blur the lines between Operating Systems and applications. The
> RPM Hell is much worse the DLL Hell that Microsoft has bestowed upon us.
> Solaris is MUCH MUCH cleaner than Linux.

Apparently you've never installed software on a Mandrake system with urpmi.

The DLL dependency issue has been solved.

There's even a gui (drakerpm) for those so inclined.

In my opinion,
Sun's strength is in the quality of Solaris and their high end servers.
I don't know if they can hold onto that or not.
I found the way they gave up the desktop discouraging.

 
 
 

Sun collapsing

Post by Donn Mille » Tue, 03 Jun 2003 14:20:30



> Unfortunately many people involved with Sun, either as customers or even
> management, suffer from this blinkered view when bad news arrives.  Worse than a
> 1.3% marketshare drop is the drop of over 15% in revenues, this is going to make
> it hard for Sun to put the investment it needs to behind Linux in order to grow
> and carry on as an independent company.

> Another 15% drop next year and Sun has just contracted as a company by almost
> one-third, they will need to lay off a similar percentage of their workforce just
> to balance their books.  Sun is being eaten by a cancer within, better known as
> solaris advocates.  These people are paralysing the forward thinking people in
> management who would like to drop solaris and move forward the only way they can,
> under the heavyweight banner of Linux.

You've got to be kidding, right?  You've never visited c.o.l.a, I see.
I'm a long time BSD user, who loves unix systems.  I always regarded
Linux as an overhyped, politically correct mess of a fragmented
operating system.  Recently, though, I decided to open my mind a little,
and try Gentoo.  Nonetheless, Linux's good points fall far short of its
hype.  All you hear from Linux advocates is destroy Microsft, destroy
this, how Linux is going to take over the world, and how Linux is eating
up everything in sight.  Needless to say, the little chance I have of
giving Linux a chance is gone now, now that I associated Linux with
little boys with a me-against-the-world complex, who put down Windows
users and programmers as "stupid" compared to Linux users.  And what do
we get in return?  Linux is destroying things.  Linux is for little boys
who like to fantasize about destroying things.  BSD and the rest of the
unices are for people who like unix.

Quote:> Linux is coming to the rescue of all the old unix shops, IBM, HP/Compaq etc and
> unless Sun stakes a claim now, they are going to be playing catch up for decades.
> It's vital if Sun is to avoid bankruptcy or a buy out, to make a claim as being
> the number 1 provider of Linux solutions in the world.  At the moment they aren't
> even competing and HP and IBM are powering forward uncontested.  Sun will fall
> behind Dell this year and out of the top 5 server providers within 12 months
> because of the cancer stopping the company from changing to market conditions.

> Sad but true.

You can stick Linux up your ass.  I like unix.

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Sun collapsing

Post by Rev. Don Koo » Tue, 03 Jun 2003 17:46:11






>>>>Sun Microsystems held onto the third position in total sales, despite

>>the

>>>>biggest revenue decline among all the top vendors. Sun moved $1.35

>>billion in servers

>>>>for the quarter but coughed up 1.7 points of market share and saw

>>revenue shrink

>>>>by 15.3 percent.

>>>>http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/61/30964.html

>>Ok, I know I'm new here, but what makes the original post a troll post? It
>>was merely quoting an article on theregister.com stating that Sun's
>>marketshare has dropped 1.7% and held the 3rd highest sales position amongst
>>vendors. How is this a troll posting?

> Unfortunately many people involved with Sun, either as customers or even
> management, suffer from this blinkered view when bad news arrives.  Worse than a
> 1.3% marketshare drop is the drop of over 15% in revenues, this is going to make
> it hard for Sun to put the investment it needs to behind Linux in order to grow
> and carry on as an independent company.

> Another 15% drop next year and Sun has just contracted as a company by almost
> one-third, they will need to lay off a similar percentage of their workforce just
> to balance their books.  Sun is being eaten by a cancer within, better known as
> solaris advocates.  These people are paralysing the forward thinking people in
> management who would like to drop solaris and move forward the only way they can,
> under the heavyweight banner of Linux.

> Linux is coming to the rescue of all the old unix shops, IBM, HP/Compaq etc and
> unless Sun stakes a claim now, they are going to be playing catch up for decades.
> It's vital if Sun is to avoid bankruptcy or a buy out, to make a claim as being
> the number 1 provider of Linux solutions in the world.  At the moment they aren't
> even competing and HP and IBM are powering forward uncontested.  Sun will fall
> behind Dell this year and out of the top 5 server providers within 12 months
> because of the cancer stopping the company from changing to market conditions.

> Sad but true.

        LOL!!!   What color is the sky in your world, kiddo?  There is no
arguing that SOLARIS is the worst UNIX system on the market but that
still puts it head and shoulders above LINTEL.  LINTEL is strictly for
students, hobbyists and tinkerers.  A toy OS and UNIX system wannabe for
PCs.  Bore-ring.  <yawn>

        Happy to have cleared things up for you,
                        Don

--
***************************   Q: How many frenchmen does it take
* Rev. Don McDonald, SCNA *      to defend Paris?
* Baltimore, MD           *   A: No one knows, it's never been tried.
***************************
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/oldno7/TheFrench.mpg
Reluctant Yamaha YZF-R1 Owner

 
 
 

Sun collapsing

Post by Rev. Don Koo » Tue, 03 Jun 2003 17:51:55




>> Unfortunately many people involved with Sun, either as customers or even
>> management, suffer from this blinkered view when bad news arrives.  
>> Worse than a
>> 1.3% marketshare drop is the drop of over 15% in revenues, this is
>> going to make
>> it hard for Sun to put the investment it needs to behind Linux in
>> order to grow
>> and carry on as an independent company.

>> Another 15% drop next year and Sun has just contracted as a company by
>> almost
>> one-third, they will need to lay off a similar percentage of their
>> workforce just
>> to balance their books.  Sun is being eaten by a cancer within, better
>> known as
>> solaris advocates.  These people are paralysing the forward thinking
>> people in
>> management who would like to drop solaris and move forward the only
>> way they can,
>> under the heavyweight banner of Linux.

> You've got to be kidding, right?  You've never visited c.o.l.a, I see.
> I'm a long time BSD user, who loves unix systems.  

        It's good that you BSD kids can aspire to use UNIX systems.

Quote:> I always regarded
> Linux as an overhyped, politically correct mess of a fragmented
> operating system.

        If you ever drop BSD in favor of a UNIX system, you will realize that
LINUX is only a kernel.  It requires the GNU's Not UNIX (GNU) utilities
to function as a PC operating system.

Quote:> Recently, though, I decided to open my mind a little,
> and try Gentoo.  Nonetheless, Linux's good points fall far short of its
> hype.  All you hear from Linux advocates is destroy Microsft, destroy
> this, how Linux is going to take over the world, and how Linux is eating
> up everything in sight.

        Uninformed and inexperienced children tend to like hype.  Once they
move out of mommy and daddy's ba*t, they learn the truth that LINTEL
is only for hobbyists, students and tinkerers.

        LINUX...  LOL!!

Quote:> Needless to say, the little chance I have of
> giving Linux a chance is gone now, now that I associated Linux with
> little boys with a me-against-the-world complex, who put down Windows
> users and programmers as "stupid" compared to Linux users.  And what do
> we get in return?  Linux is destroying things.  Linux is for little boys
> who like to fantasize about destroying things.  BSD and the rest of the
> unices are for people who like unix.

        Like LINUX, BSD isn't a UNIX system, my confused young friend.

- Show quoted text -

Quote:>> Linux is coming to the rescue of all the old unix shops, IBM,
>> HP/Compaq etc and
>> unless Sun stakes a claim now, they are going to be playing catch up
>> for decades.
>> It's vital if Sun is to avoid bankruptcy or a buy out, to make a claim
>> as being
>> the number 1 provider of Linux solutions in the world.  At the moment
>> they aren't
>> even competing and HP and IBM are powering forward uncontested.  Sun
>> will fall
>> behind Dell this year and out of the top 5 server providers within 12
>> months
>> because of the cancer stopping the company from changing to market
>> conditions.
>> Sad but true.
> You can stick Linux up your ass.  I like unix.

        Then you should move from BSD to a UNIX system, shorty.

                        Hope this helps,
                                Don

--
***************************   Q: How many frenchmen does it take
* Rev. Don McDonald, SCNA *      to defend Paris?
* Baltimore, MD           *   A: No one knows, it's never been tried.
***************************
http://www.veryComputer.com/
Reluctant Yamaha YZF-R1 Owner

 
 
 

Sun collapsing

Post by Tom Tobi » Tue, 03 Jun 2003 18:18:05




> > > Ok, I know I'm new here, but what makes the original post a troll
post?

> For one thing, the poster has all the hallmarks of a troller.  He
> posts under different names ("John Miller", "Lance Armstrong", "James
> smyth", etc.) but whenever it's about Sun it's negative.  Google says
> that most of his postings are about * and/or football (soccer
> to Americans).

You forgot "John Benham", "Ritchie Bennet", "Ritchie Hyde", "Bill Bennet",
and "William Donovan". I may have missed some...

Quote:> I've heard of such people being hired to troll by
> competitors.

You mean "James smyth" may be getting paid for this.
(That gives a different meaning to "Do not feed the troll"!;-)

Does it work, tho?
Would it effectively spread doubt and confusion among Sun users?
Would the competitors be able to use the results, to say, "Oh, Yeah.
There's been a lot of negative newsgroup postings about that!"
Would the competitors *benefit* from this?
And - if so - which competitors would benefit most?

Anyone come across it in other (non-computer) areas?

--
Tom Tobin.

 
 
 

Sun collapsing

Post by Donn Mille » Tue, 03 Jun 2003 18:48:34




>> You've got to be kidding, right?  You've never visited c.o.l.a, I see.
>> I'm a long time BSD user, who loves unix systems.  

>     It's good that you BSD kids can aspire to use UNIX systems.

Yup.  I'm going to aspire to try out various UNIX systems, such as HP/UX
and Solaris.  There's UNIX systems and there's unix systems, which
FreeBSD and Linux both are.  Note the difference in case.

Quote:>     If you ever drop BSD in favor of a UNIX system, you will realize
> that LINUX is only a kernel.  It requires the GNU's Not UNIX (GNU)
> utilities to function as a PC operating system.

Yeah, but those GNU utils come in handy if you don't have enough money
to pay for Sun Developer Studio.  $995 is pretty expensive.  I'm
starting to see why GNU can be good.  This isn't to put Sun's compiler
down, as I've heard some good things about it.  I just can't afford it,
that's all.

Quote:>     Uninformed and inexperienced children tend to like hype.  Once they
> move out of mommy and daddy's ba*t, they learn the truth that LINTEL
> is only for hobbyists, students and tinkerers.

>     LINUX...  LOL!!

Actually, I don't have a problem with Linux as much as certain rabid
lusers of the OS.  I like to use Linux, too, but I prefer BSD.

Sorry about the condenscending tone of my OP.  I was reading cola, and
some idiots there pissed me off greatly.  Well, some of those people are
probably just little kids looking for a good flame.  Why I spend so much
time there, I don't know...

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