Very Computer

Solution #1: XDMCP, pcanywhere, vnc, etc.  Problem:  An X-Server imposes
too much overhead given the limited capabilities of the machines
involved.  (No, I don't want to replace the machines with the latest and
greatest hardware :-)).

Solution #2: Serial console via cable and modem.  Problem: We have a
network interface but no spare phone line at the remote location.

Solution #3: KVM over IP.  Problem:  I've priced out KVM switches with a
network interface and they appear to be too expensive ($1500+).
Unaffordable in the case at hand.  For less money I could install a
multiport serial card on a machine running x-windows and use this to
control the machines via serial consoles.  Still a bit pricey however
because of limited sources for multiport serial cards.

All of these solutions are less than appealing.  Can someone recommend a
better method?  Or perhaps point me to an affordable source for KVM
switches with network interfaces?

Quote:> I need to move some servers to an unattended location and haven't been
> pleased with the methods for remote administration that have come to
> mind so far:

> Solution #1: XDMCP, pcanywhere, vnc, etc.  Problem:  An X-Server
> imposes too much overhead

Quote:> Solution #2: Serial console via cable and modem.  Problem: We have a
> network interface but no spare phone line at the remote location.

Quote:> Solution #3: KVM over IP.  Problem:  I've priced out KVM switches with
> a network interface and they appear to be too expensive ($1500+).

Quote:> All of these solutions are less than appealing.  Can someone recommend
> a better method?

--
Matt G|There is no Darkness in Eternity/But only Light too dim for us to see
Brainbench MVP for Linux Admin /    mail: TRAP + SPAN don't belong
http://www.brainbench.com     /                Hire me!
-----------------------------/ http://crow202.dyndns.org/~mhgraham/resume

: Solution #1: XDMCP, pcanywhere, vnc, etc.  Problem:  An X-Server imposes
: Solution #2: Serial console via cable and modem.  Problem: We have a
: Solution #3: KVM over IP.  Problem:  I've priced out KVM switches with a

Am I missing something ? - what's wrong with basic terminal login
using SSH or the like?

Stan
--
Stan Bischof ("stan" at the below domain)
www.worldbadminton.com

Quote:> Solution #2: Serial console via cable and modem.  Problem: We have a
> network interface but no spare phone line at the remote location.

Set up the machines to reboot after a power outage, use journalling
filesystems on them and firewall them.

Quote:> I need to move some servers to an unattended location and haven't been
> pleased with the methods for remote administration that have come to
> mind so far:

--
Andy.

]I need to move some servers to an unattended location and haven't been
]pleased with the methods for remote administration that have come to
]mind so far:

I am confused. These machines have network connections you seem to say
below. So just do it, by command line and scripts, via the network. No
need for X, or pcanywhere or .... What kind of admin tasks?
The only problem is that the machines may need on site if they crash
(power failure, etc). YOu still cannot push the big red switch from a
remote location.

]Solution #1: XDMCP, pcanywhere, vnc, etc.  Problem:  An X-Server imposes
]too much overhead given the limited capabilities of the machines
]involved.  (No, I don't want to replace the machines with the latest and
]greatest hardware :-)).

]Solution #2: Serial console via cable and modem.  Problem: We have a
]network interface but no spare phone line at the remote location.

So, use the network!

]Solution #3: KVM over IP.  Problem:  I've priced out KVM switches with a

No idea what KVM is.
It depends on how much remote admin you want to do. IF you really want
to control the systems remotely as they boot up, then the network idea
above will not work. But neither would the modem idea since there has to
be something running on the machine to get at the modem. Xserver means
that the machine is already up and running.

]network interface and they appear to be too expensive ($1500+).
]Unaffordable in the case at hand.  For less money I could install a
]multiport serial card on a machine running x-windows and use this to
]control the machines via serial consoles.  Still a bit pricey however
]because of limited sources for multiport serial cards.

]All of these solutions are less than appealing.  Can someone recommend a
]better method?  Or perhaps point me to an affordable source for KVM
]switches with network interfaces?

Tell us what you want to be able to do via this "remote administration".

It kind of sounds like you might think X works like the Windows GUI
where you somehow need to copy the display to the remote station.  It is
actually very different.  X is a client-server system that inherently
supports what you're trying to do.  The X server needs to be running on
the machine you sit in front of but not necessarily on the machine
running the app.  All that the remote machine needs is the X libraries
which are a lot "lighter" than the X server itself.

So my first suggestion would be SSH.  It gives you an encrypted command
line and you can also run X apps on the remote machine and forward the
display back to your workstation.  This is actually a lot easier than it
sounds, just a one-time setup.  You will need to run an X server on the
machine you're sitting in front of but there is no need at all for an X
server on the remote machine.

Your Linux distro probably already has SSH included.  If you will be
administering from Windows, I'd google for "Cygwin".  It provides an
Unix enviornment on top of Windows that includes an X server and SSH.
If you're using Linux or another Unix then all you need to do is install
SSH since you probably have an X server.

FWIW, another possibility would be something like Webmin.  That lets you
do many admin tasks using a web browser.  Don't forget to use https!

Finally, you really don't need all the "stuff".  Just a command line
running over SSH is quite sufficient once you learn the ropes.

Quote:> Solution #3: KVM over IP.  Problem:  I've priced out KVM switches with a
> network interface and they appear to be too expensive ($1500+).

--
 -| Bob Hauck
 -| To Whom You Are Speaking
 -| http://www.haucks.org/

Each time I login I have to create a file with the current name within a few seconds
or it logs me out. Until that file is created, the shell is VERY restricted.

Ssh takes a lot of space and other system resources that I have better uses for.

AC

--
Pass-List -----> Block-List ----> Challenge-Response
The key to taking control of your mailbox.  Design Parameters:
http://tinyurl.com/2t5kp ||   http://tinyurl.com/3c3ag
Challenge-Response links -- http://tinyurl.com/yrfjb

[snip]

Quote:> ]Solution #3: KVM over IP.  Problem:  I've priced out KVM switches with a

> No idea what KVM is.

Quote:> I need to move some servers to an unattended location and haven't been
> pleased with the methods for remote administration that have come to
> mind so far:

Quote:> All of these solutions are less than appealing.  Can someone recommend a
> better method?  Or perhaps point me to an affordable source for KVM
> switches with network interfaces?

Here's a good starting point:

http://www.openssh.org/faq.html

You probably don't even need to install sshd at all, it should be
installed per default on most Linux distro. Perhaps it is already
running? Just make sure there's a recent version/vendor update
installed.

There are windoze clients, if you are limited to some M$ desktop,
putty/winscp try a google search.

Good luck

--
Michael Heiming (GPG-Key ID: 0xEDD27B94)

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Quote:> The only problem is that the machines may need on site if they crash
> (power failure, etc). YOu still cannot push the big red switch from a
> remote location.

There are some add-on cards that make nearly the same possible:
http://www.realweasel.com/

--
Michael Heiming (GPG-Key ID: 0xEDD27B94)

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And you KNOW that almost no one has it.

So what the HELL is the point?

The only person who ever forged your headers was someone
that you were abusing and harassing the hell out of.

As with me, you tried to bully them and they wouldn't back down.

<snip>

AC

Quote:> I like good old telnet.

Quote:> There's a script on the servers that accesses a VERY long list of names
> (runs as root).  The list is not sent over the internet, and each name is
> used only once.

Quote:> Ssh takes a lot of space and other system resources that I have better
> uses for.

iD8DBQFAqm/q5sRg+Y0CpvERAhTdAJ9jeH1ruNHl26++vg8Z8sgL15krLgCdFm5p
zKxTI5h8olXTywO6qtSns5M=
=xBga
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Just a few seconds using google and it looks like YOUR newsreader
slrn can use it perfectly:

[http://digilander.libero.it/ebassi/slrn/index.html#macros]

SLRN + GnuPG

SLRN + GnuPG is a macro that allows you to sign and verify Usenet
articles using GnuPG. It could also be used with PGP, although I
reccomend using GnuPG, since it's open and free (as in Free
Software).
[download] [code]

I'm sure you can get it working.

Quote:> And you KNOW that almost no one has it.
> So what the HELL is the point?
> The only person who ever forged your headers was someone
> that you were abusing and harassing the hell out of.

My posts are perhaps not as polished, but that might be my
"style" and you can be lucky, it's not my native language.

I'm just helping others, as others help me, that's how
GNU/Linux/GPL works, it's as simple.;)

Quote:> As with me, you tried to bully them and they wouldn't back down.

Don't understand what you mean Alan, but then, I keep on reading
rants from you, as soon as I take you out of my kill-file and I'm
not really interested anymore in reading them.

--
Michael Heiming (GPG-Key ID: 0xEDD27B94)

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Quote:> I need to move some servers to an unattended location and haven't been
> pleased with the methods for remote administration that have come to
> mind so far:

> Solution #1: XDMCP, pcanywhere, vnc, etc.  Problem:  An X-Server
> imposes too much overhead given the limited capabilities of the
> machines involved.  (No, I don't want to replace the machines with the
> latest and greatest hardware :-)).

> Solution #2: Serial console via cable and modem.  Problem: We have a
> network interface but no spare phone line at the remote location.

> Solution #3: KVM over IP.  Problem:  I've priced out KVM switches with
> a network interface and they appear to be too expensive
> ($1500+). Unaffordable in the case at hand.  For less money I could
> install a multiport serial card on a machine running x-windows and use
> this to control the machines via serial consoles.  Still a bit pricey
> however because of limited sources for multiport serial cards.

> All of these solutions are less than appealing.  Can someone recommend
> a better method?  Or perhaps point me to an affordable source for KVM
> switches with network interfaces?

98% of what you need to do you can do with an SSH connection, using
whatever kind of "network plumbing" you already have in the
environment.  It requires that there be an sshd server on each box
that accepts connections.

The other 2% is for those cases where you need to do hardware
reconfiguring that requires having access to BIOS.  To do that, you'd
need KVM over IP, and yes, that's likely to be pricey.

If you type "ssh -X", then that will try to export your local X
display connection across the wire so that you'll have something as
equivalent to VNC as you can get.  There is NO need to have an X
server running in the server environment.

Solution #5, which is relevant to "console" stuff on Real UNIX(tm)
system:

Modify #2 to have some sort of serial console server that connects to
IP.  That way, you telnet to the "console server" which then allows
you to hook up to the serial consoles.  No need for ANY phone line.
--

http://cbbrowne.com/info/lisp.html
"Bonus!  The lack of multitasking is one of the most important reasons
why DOS destroyed Unix in the marketplace." -- Scott Nudds