28.8 PPP is too slow (get a FR 56!)

28.8 PPP is too slow (get a FR 56!)

Post by Tim Bas » Tue, 28 Feb 1995 13:49:55



Well, after turning off flow control AT&K0 my link seems
better now..... maybe $150 a month for this link beats
$475 for the FR 56.  We will see.................:-)

: Just put up a 28.8 PPP link into cais.com and experienced
: the following:

: 1)  Telnet and ftp very slow;
: 2)  httpd hopeless;
: 3)  link drops all the time;
: 4)  could do a traceroute but not a ping (!?);

: We found all this too unreliable for any real use of
: the net.

: Well, at least nslookup and udp was tolerable, that is
: if course until the link drops!

: Our net use is very important.  So we just ordered a FR
: 56 dedicated to replace the PPP dial up failure. Unless
: you're a business that can't afford $500 bucks a month, it
: seems to me that dial up PPP is a very unreliable alternative.

: I'm running the 1.1.94 kernal and pppd seems to work fine, as
: well as chat, etc.  Either the BOCA v.Fast modem is a piece
: of 'u know what' or PPP just isn't a viable alternative.
: (BOCA on our end, a good HAYES on the other....)

: Comments?

 
 
 

28.8 PPP is too slow (get a FR 56!)

Post by Jon Lewi » Tue, 28 Feb 1995 14:44:04



Quote:> Just put up a 28.8 PPP link into cais.com and experienced
> the following:

> 1)  Telnet and ftp very slow;
> 2)  httpd hopeless;
> 3)  link drops all the time;
> 4)  could do a traceroute but not a ping (!?);

You probably have config problems...or you tried doing severl net
intensive things at once.  Telnet over 28.8 PPP should be just fine as
long as you don't try ftp'ing large files at the same time.  Running
Netscape should also be quite bearable.  Running an httpd for people
across the net to access would be a bad idea.

If the link drops all the time, check you phone lines and then get new
modems.

If ping doesn't work you have problems.

Quote:> Our net use is very important.  So we just ordered a FR
> 56 dedicated to replace the PPP dial up failure. Unless
> you're a business that can't afford $500 bucks a month, it
> seems to me that dial up PPP is a very unreliable alternative.

No offense intended...but if you couldn't get PPP setup, there's no
guarantee that that throwing faster hardware at the problem will solve
anything.

Sure, I'd prefer 56kb over 28.8, but as I'm a student with free 28.8
access, I couldn't possibly afford the added expense.

Quote:> I'm running the 1.1.94 kernal and pppd seems to work fine, as
> well as chat, etc.  Either the BOCA v.Fast modem is a piece
> of 'u know what' or PPP just isn't a viable alternative.
> (BOCA on our end, a good HAYES on the other....)

Boca is well known for pushing crappy modems, and even for failure to
stand behind their products and warranties.  Don't buy any more BocaModems!

A $25 charge for swapping a refurb for a dead modem isn't my idea of
"...replacemnt free of charge for 5 years..."  And then they wanted to
charge me again when the refurb they sent me was DOA.  Get a grip, Boca!

Can you say "no repeat customers"?  I know I can.

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28.8 PPP is too slow (get a FR 56!)

Post by Tim Bas » Tue, 28 Feb 1995 08:59:04


Just put up a 28.8 PPP link into cais.com and experienced
the following:

1)  Telnet and ftp very slow;
2)  httpd hopeless;
3)  link drops all the time;
4)  could do a traceroute but not a ping (!?);

We found all this too unreliable for any real use of
the net.

Well, at least nslookup and udp was tolerable, that is
if course until the link drops!

Our net use is very important.  So we just ordered a FR
56 dedicated to replace the PPP dial up failure. Unless
you're a business that can't afford $500 bucks a month, it
seems to me that dial up PPP is a very unreliable alternative.

I'm running the 1.1.94 kernal and pppd seems to work fine, as
well as chat, etc.  Either the BOCA v.Fast modem is a piece
of 'u know what' or PPP just isn't a viable alternative.
(BOCA on our end, a good HAYES on the other....)

Comments?

 
 
 

28.8 PPP is too slow (get a FR 56!)

Post by Michael K. Johns » Tue, 28 Feb 1995 23:19:06



   Our net use is very important.  So we just ordered a FR
   56 dedicated to replace the PPP dial up failure. Unless
   you're a business that can't afford $500 bucks a month, it
   seems to me that dial up PPP is a very unreliable alternative.

   I'm running the 1.1.94 kernal and pppd seems to work fine, as
   well as chat, etc.  Either the BOCA v.Fast modem is a piece
   of 'u know what' or PPP just isn't a viable alternative.
   (BOCA on our end, a good HAYES on the other....)

   Comments?

Yes.  You must have done something wrong, unless those two
modems have troubles...  I just put in a dedicated 28.8
connection with two USR modems, running off a Linux box,
and it has been running very, very well.  A joy.  I get
better ping times USR <-> USR than USR <-> Zoom.

Also, This news posting is being sent by NNTP over a 14.4
PPP link of my own.

I have had bad experiences with Boca, too, and I've heard
plenty of horror stories.  I think you have jumped too
quick on this one.  I can easily believe that the Boca
modem is a piece.

michaelkjohnson

 
 
 

28.8 PPP is too slow (get a FR 56!)

Post by Karl J. Vesterli » Wed, 01 Mar 1995 04:59:18





>> Just put up a 28.8 PPP link into cais.com and experienced
>> the following:

>> 1)  Telnet and ftp very slow;
>> 2)  httpd hopeless;
>> 3)  link drops all the time;
>> 4)  could do a traceroute but not a ping (!?);

>You probably have config problems...or you tried doing severl net
>intensive things at once.  Telnet over 28.8 PPP should be just fine as
>long as you don't try ftp'ing large files at the same time.  Running
>Netscape should also be quite bearable.  Running an httpd for people
>across the net to access would be a bad idea.

        Agreed.  Even on a 56Kbps connection it's going to give you
grief...

Quote:

>If the link drops all the time, check you phone lines and then get new
>modems.

        Nope...  Check that you have V.34 capable modems on both ends,
and then check that your V.34 connection is established.  Also, make
sure that hardware flow control is functioning...  You have to give
pppd the crtscts and modem options, ie:

/usr/lib/ppp/pppd /dev/<whatever> 38400 crtscts modem lock <localip>:<remoteip>

        Flow control is a big concern...  Without that, you're up the
creek...  And if you've seen Niagara Falls, you'd know what I mean...

Quote:

>If ping doesn't work you have problems.

        Assuredly...

Quote:

>> Our net use is very important.  So we just ordered a FR
>> 56 dedicated to replace the PPP dial up failure. Unless
>> you're a business that can't afford $500 bucks a month, it
>> seems to me that dial up PPP is a very unreliable alternative.

>No offense intended...but if you couldn't get PPP setup, there's no
>guarantee that that throwing faster hardware at the problem will solve
>anything.

        Well, if they are getting FR 56, then it probably will fix the
problem...  I just have doubts in the fact that the administration
can't get a simple PPP link up that they'd be able to handle the rest
of the network.

Quote:

>Sure, I'd prefer 56kb over 28.8, but as I'm a student with free 28.8
>access, I couldn't possibly afford the added expense.

        Why?  V.34 modems use compression, and most IP traffic is
compressable data...  I find that with WWW pages and telnets that a
28.8 Modem where the machines on each end are talking to the modems at
115.2Kbps and hardware flow control is configured propperly I often
exceed the speed of 56Kbps.

        Try sending a long text file with Zmodem over a V.34
connection and look at the cps...  Then, go figure...  I admit that
one FTP transfer of a compressed file will throw a wrench in the
gears, but hey...  Then you're at 28.8 for those packets...

Quote:

>> I'm running the 1.1.94 kernal and pppd seems to work fine, as
>> well as chat, etc.  Either the BOCA v.Fast modem is a piece
>> of 'u know what' or PPP just isn't a viable alternative.
>> (BOCA on our end, a good HAYES on the other....)

        The only thing I can say is that PPP with 1.1.75 1.1.74, and
below has worked for me flawlessly over the following correctly
configured mediums:

        o Null Modem
        o 28.8 V.34 and V.FC modems.
        o Telebit WorldBlazer PEP
        o Wireless 56Kbps radio over a distance of 10 miles. (Yes,
          full duplex.)

        And I'm certain that with my experience I could probably make
it fly over two tin cans and a string... ;-)

Quote:

>Boca is well known for pushing crappy modems, and even for failure to
>stand behind their products and warranties.  Don't buy any more BocaModems!

        Agreed...

Quote:

>A $25 charge for swapping a refurb for a dead modem isn't my idea of
>"...replacemnt free of charge for 5 years..."  And then they wanted to
>charge me again when the refurb they sent me was DOA.  Get a grip, Boca!

        I say we boycott them...  I sure am...

Quote:>Can you say "no repeat customers"?  I know I can.

        I have never bought a BOCA modem...  Mainly because of the
constant grief I hear about their products from people I tell, "Don't
buy the BOCA..."  And then I usually hear, "Oh, but look at the
price!"  But then again, these are the same people who go out and buy
the $15.99 ratchet set to rebuild the engine in their 1978 Chevy
Impala... ;-)
 
 
 

28.8 PPP is too slow (get a FR 56!)

Post by John M. Trind » Wed, 01 Mar 1995 05:45:59



Quote:

>Just put up a 28.8 PPP link into cais.com and experienced
>the following:

>1)  Telnet and ftp very slow;
>2)  httpd hopeless;
>3)  link drops all the time;
>4)  could do a traceroute but not a ping (!?);

>Our net use is very important.  So we just ordered a FR
>56 dedicated to replace the PPP dial up failure. Unless
>you're a business that can't afford $500 bucks a month, it
>seems to me that dial up PPP is a very unreliable alternative.

>I'm running the 1.1.94 kernal and pppd seems to work fine, as
>well as chat, etc.  Either the BOCA v.Fast modem is a piece
>of 'u know what' or PPP just isn't a viable alternative.
>(BOCA on our end, a good HAYES on the other....)

I'm running a Boca v.FAST/v.FC to a provider with Microcom V.FC modems.  
I have never had the kind of problem you detail.  ftp transfers are in
the 2.8k to 3.0k to the provider's host (or even to tsx-11.mit.edu).  ftp
from sunsite.unc.edu are much slower at 500 cps!  Running pppd is stable
for both outgoing and incoming calls.

I did need to use 16550s.  I was running a 486-66 and now a 486-100,
currently with kernel 1.1.93.  Each board has 8 MB. I am not (yet) sharing
IRQs.

I am now using diald-0.6... after changing some of the timeouts it works
GREAT!  Highly recommended for on-demand PPP.

Your FR price seems high... I thought ISDN (64K) would be down in the
$200-$250 / month range... and no, I can't afford that yet (I am
researching a future setup on my own dime).

Just a data point .
--


Home Page:        http://www.widomaker.com/~trindle
--

 
 
 

28.8 PPP is too slow (get a FR 56!)

Post by Robert J. Shm » Wed, 01 Mar 1995 05:49:47



Quote:>I'm running the 1.1.94 kernal and pppd seems to work fine, as
>well as chat, etc.  Either the BOCA v.Fast modem is a piece
>of 'u know what' or PPP just isn't a viable alternative.
>(BOCA on our end, a good HAYES on the other....)

  ^^^^--- BOCA means bad news.. the worst mistake i ever made was buying this
piece of *modem.. let me offer some advice to people looking into 28.8 or
14.4s.. DO NOT BUY A BOCA MODEM it may be cheap.. but it isnt worth the
greenboard it sits on.. i have never had more trouble with a modem..
--
+--------------------------+---------------------------------------------------

+--------------------------+ #include <sigs/witty.h>
| Robert J. Shmit          | #include <sigs/insightful.h>
 
 
 

28.8 PPP is too slow (get a FR 56!)

Post by Chris Wysopa » Wed, 01 Mar 1995 08:09:38



> Just put up a 28.8 PPP link into cais.com and experienced
> the following:

> 1)  Telnet and ftp very slow;

Telnet over an analog line is going to have high latency.  The only
thing you can do is use a small MTU.  I use 196 because I have
a lot of telnet users.

I haven't had a problem with FTP.  I get 3K/sec all the time.  That
is if only 1 user is transferring.

Quote:> 2)  httpd hopeless;

Well if you don't do alot of graphics it should be fine for a few
users at a time.

Quote:> 3)  link drops all the time;

Well that's analog for you.  This is the biggest problem I have had.
From my experience this depends totally on the quality of the phone
line between you and the switch.  I drop an average of twice a day.
A script brings me right back up so I can live with it.

Quote:> 4)  could do a traceroute but not a ping (!?);

Hmmm... that's real strange.

Quote:> We found all this too unreliable for any real use of
> the net.

I've been up almost a year now running a bbs, anon ftp,
httpd, and mail.  The only complaint I get is the
latency.

Quote:> Well, at least nslookup and udp was tolerable, that is
> if course until the link drops!

> Our net use is very important.  So we just ordered a FR
> 56 dedicated to replace the PPP dial up failure. Unless
> you're a business that can't afford $500 bucks a month, it
> seems to me that dial up PPP is a very unreliable alternative.

$500 a month really adds up over time.  I am running at
a residential site so I pay $35 a month to my RBOC and $79 a
month to my 28.8K ISP.  If you must do business rates then
an analog leased line will probably cost around $200 a month
so going digital not so big a jump.

You should look into 128K ISDN.  My provider covers internet
and line charges (I think on their CENTREX) for $595 a month
with a $2900 startup (OUCH).

Quote:> I'm running the 1.1.94 kernal and pppd seems to work fine, as
> well as chat, etc.  Either the BOCA v.Fast modem is a piece
> of 'u know what' or PPP just isn't a viable alternative.
> (BOCA on our end, a good HAYES on the other....)

I am using a Zoom V.FAST on BOTH ends of the links.  You should
try to borrow a Hayes to replace the BOCA and see how that does.
I am also using CSLIP.  A bad phone line may be your only problem
though.  There is an AT command on most new modems that lets you
test line conditions while connected.  You use +++ to drop to
command mode, issue the proper AT command (my manual can't be
found) and it will report line quality.  If you have a noisy
line there is not much you can do.

Good luck.


 
 
 

28.8 PPP is too slow (get a FR 56!)

Post by Dan Newcom » Wed, 01 Mar 1995 01:03:08



Quote:

>Just put up a 28.8 PPP link into cais.com and experienced
>the following:

>1)  Telnet and ftp very slow;

I usually get speeds of 2.5Kbps when ftping compressed files.  I got
5.2Kbps transferring a text file the other day :)   This is with v42
error correction/compression.  Telnet is kinda sluggish.  As I've read
this has to do with the MTU and MRU settings, and I have yet to find
an optimal value that works great with both FTP and Telnet.

Quote:>2)  httpd hopeless;

I haven't tried running a server, but I don't think the performace should
be the different from the client, and Mosaic works great with 28.8.  Of
course if you have tons of hits at the same time on the server, it'll get
bogged down.

Quote:>3)  link drops all the time;
>4)  could do a traceroute but not a ping (!?);

These last two definatly suggest that you have a problem, which may be
affecting the above.  I have had my link drop twice, but both
times I traced it to "other problems" (PPP server rebooting, and my wife
picking up the phone.)

        -Dan

--

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"And the man in the mirror has sad eyes."       -Marillion

 
 
 

28.8 PPP is too slow (get a FR 56!)

Post by Gary Hest » Thu, 02 Mar 1995 00:42:53





>> [ ... ]  Either the BOCA v.Fast modem is a piece
>>of 'u know what' or PPP just isn't a viable alternative.
>>(BOCA on our end, a good HAYES on the other....)
>  ^^^^--- BOCA means bad news.. the worst mistake i ever made was buying this
>piece of *modem.. let me offer some advice to people looking into 28.8 or
>14.4s.. DO NOT BUY A BOCA MODEM it may be cheap.. but it isnt worth the
>greenboard it sits on.. i have never had more trouble with a modem..

At work, we used a large quantity (I mean several thousand per month)
of Boca IDE-I/O cards in some systems we built; our manufacturing and
diagnotic software people referred to them as "Broka boards". The design
changed almost monthly, causing problems with diags, and the failure
rate was high.

I also have sitting behind me five Boca BEN-300 combo cards. These are
part of 24 we bought (I found out after the purchase); they're all
dead. I sent three in for warranty repair last year, and of the three
that came back, two were DOA. I'm glad my boss saved $30/card on
them; it's probably only costs us 5x that in downtime.

While I have a Boca 2400bps modem at home, after the experience I've
had here and what I've seen on the net, I won't be buying any other
Boca products.

--

Disclaimer, datclaimer...
My home computer is more powerful than my F500 employers' Internet gateway
system. *They* make $2,000,000,000+/year. I make less than 1/50,000th of that.

 
 
 

28.8 PPP is too slow (get a FR 56!)

Post by Ian McCloghr » Thu, 02 Mar 1995 02:43:11



>> I'm running the 1.1.94 kernal and pppd seems to work fine, as
>> well as chat, etc.  Either the BOCA v.Fast modem is a piece
>> of 'u know what' or PPP just isn't a viable alternative.
>> (BOCA on our end, a good HAYES on the other....)
>I am using a Zoom V.FAST on BOTH ends of the links.  You should
>try to borrow a Hayes to replace the BOCA and see how that does.

Best bet would be to get a couple of USR v.34 sportsters.  They're
about $200 apiece (for external w/ fax) and they've been rock-solid
in SLIP service for me.

--

  ____   GCS d-- H- s+:+ !g p?+ au a- w+ v- C+++$ UL++++ US++$ P+>++
  \bi/   L+++ 3 E+ N++ K--- !W--- M-- V-- -po+ Y+ t+ 5+++ jx R G''''
   \/    tv- b+++ D- B--- e- u* h- f+ r n+ y*

The above represents my personal opinions and not necessarily those
of my employer, Qualcomm Inc.

 
 
 

28.8 PPP is too slow (get a FR 56!)

Post by Jon Lewi » Wed, 01 Mar 1995 09:45:46



Quote:

> >If the link drops all the time, check you phone lines and then get new
> >modems.

>    Nope...  Check that you have V.34 capable modems on both ends,
> and then check that your V.34 connection is established.  Also, make
> sure that hardware flow control is functioning...  You have to give
> pppd the crtscts and modem options, ie:

When I upgraded from v.FC to v.34, my connection got only a little more
reliable.  With my Boca 1440's, I used to get dropped carriers every few
hours.  With v.FC (which connected at 24000 every time) I still got
carrier drops about as often.  Now, with v.34, I connect at 26400 every
time and it not unusual for me to stay connected 10-20 hours, though I do
lose the connection ever so often.

crtscts is very important as you say.  I've been complaining about my USR
Sportsters for 2 months now, and I think I've just realized that my
downward speed shifting problem might have been due to forgetting to put
crtscts in the ppp server's options.  Since adding it the other night,
I've no longer noticed appreciable speed drops.  Is it reasonable to
assume that flow control problems at one end could cause the modem to
speed shift down?

Quote:

> >Sure, I'd prefer 56kb over 28.8, but as I'm a student with free 28.8
> >access, I couldn't possibly afford the added expense.

>    Why?  V.34 modems use compression, and most IP traffic is
> compressable data...  I find that with WWW pages and telnets that a
> 28.8 Modem where the machines on each end are talking to the modems at
> 115.2Kbps and hardware flow control is configured propperly I often
> exceed the speed of 56Kbps.

>    Try sending a long text file with Zmodem over a V.34
> connection and look at the cps...  Then, go figure...  I admit that
> one FTP transfer of a compressed file will throw a wrench in the
> gears, but hey...  Then you're at 28.8 for those packets...

Actually, I do run the ports (I run my own PPP server in the lab and the
client at home) at 115200.  I've transfered real text files (not a few
thousand D's) at about 9kb/s using a 26400 carrier and v.42bis.  Average
text files transfer closer to 5 kb/s though.  But imagine what you could
do with a 57k carier or 128k.  I'm just waiting/hoping for ISDN to become
a standard in every home at reasonable prices.

Quote:>    The only thing I can say is that PPP with 1.1.75 1.1.74, and
> below has worked for me flawlessly over the following correctly
> configured mediums:

I've had no real trouble using ppp 2.1.2b with kernels 1.1.54, 1.1.59,
1.1.64, 1.1.73, 1.1.83, 1.1.86, 1.1.90.  I've not used most of the kernels
inbtween those mentioned, or not for very long anyway.

Quote:>    o Wireless 56Kbps radio over a distance of 10 miles. (Yes,
>      full duplex.)

What does it cost to setup a pair of these?  I live only about 2.5 miles
from my office, where the internet access is via the campus ethernet.

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 Mime attachments are OK       |          
 But please ask before sending unsolicited huge files.        

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28.8 PPP is too slow (get a FR 56!)

Post by Eric Sche » Fri, 03 Mar 1995 00:36:39



>Where is there more info on diald ???

ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/Linux/system/Network/serial/diald-0.6

-- eric

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Department of Computer Science, University of Toronto

 
 
 

28.8 PPP is too slow (get a FR 56!)

Post by John M. Trind » Fri, 03 Mar 1995 03:24:47





>> I am now using diald-0.6... after changing some of the timeouts it works
>> GREAT!  Highly recommended for on-demand PPP.

>Where is there more info on diald ???

I got it from sunsite, in /pub/Linux/sources/system/Networking/Serial (or
something like that.  I found out about it from the newsgroup here.

Diald manages PPP or SL/IP and lets you set up timeouts for
dropping/redialing the serial link.

--


Home Page:        http://www.widomaker.com/~trindle
--

 
 
 

28.8 PPP is too slow (get a FR 56!)

Post by Mark A. Stevens » Fri, 03 Mar 1995 05:28:41



:       And I'm certain that with my experience I could probably make
: it fly over two tin cans and a string... ;-)

Can you find a way to make it fly dialling in to a (PPP-less) terminal
server then telnetting to a Linux system running pppd?

--
       Mark A. Stevens, M.D.           Assistant Professor of Psychiatry

     Galveston, TX  77555-0428      |  Phone: (409) 772-3474
                <URL:http://shrinkatron.utmb.edu/~mstevens>

 
 
 

1. 28.8 PPP is too slow (get a FR 56!)

 Based on our thread in the networking group, then general
consensus is to get a good USR V.34 modem, i.e. a Courier
or Sportster for a dedicated PPP link.

The Courier is almost twice the price as the
Sportster.  Does the additional cost for the Courier
seem to be justified?  I'm moving the old V.Fast BOCA
to the bleachers..

2. Mount: "Not Found" Error II

3. Help: Slow ppp connection with USR Robitics Sport 28.8

4. Hard Drive Problems with Redhat 6.2 - Bad Geometry?

5. Help: Slow ppp connection with USR Robitics Courier Dual Standard 28.8

6. bad MIME headers with NS Proxy 3.52

7. PPP slow connection with 28.8 modem

8. tt_type_comp on Solaris 2.5

9. external modem Genius GM 56 E-V, ELSA Microlink 56 Fun

10. Hayes Accura 28.8 PnP (internal) vs. SupraFaxModem 28.8

11. Slow 28.8 modem under linux

12. SLIP so slow... at 28.8 ?

13. 28.8 modem acting very slow