Recommendation for 100Mbps Switched Ethernet hardware

Recommendation for 100Mbps Switched Ethernet hardware

Post by sys884 » Tue, 14 Sep 1999 04:00:00



Specifically, I need recommendations on a switches that I can use to
setup a 100Mbps Switched Ethernet hardware.

Thanks.

 
 
 

Recommendation for 100Mbps Switched Ethernet hardware

Post by Ricardo Wagne » Tue, 14 Sep 1999 04:00:00


Depends of

- the size of the network you are running
- The traffic
- the number of servers
- your budget

Switches come in a variety of specs. I run a mix of HP (cheap and simple..
not very fast, good for small  branches) and Bay Networks for heavy
traffic... specially for our server room and large headquarters...
flexible...expensive..but monsters.

Ricardo


Quote:> Specifically, I need recommendations on a switches that I can use to
> setup a 100Mbps Switched Ethernet hardware.

> Thanks.


 
 
 

Recommendation for 100Mbps Switched Ethernet hardware

Post by starshum#SPA.. » Wed, 15 Sep 1999 04:00:00



Quote:> Specifically, I need recommendations on a switches that I can use to
> setup a 100Mbps Switched Ethernet hardware.

  Try 3Com SuperStack III 3300 series.

--

Stephen Shum

 
 
 

Recommendation for 100Mbps Switched Ethernet hardware

Post by The Bon » Wed, 15 Sep 1999 04:00:00


Why not try the new Kingston KNS/500WG for 5 ports, or 800 for 8 ports.
Very good price for a switch.
The Bond

> Specifically, I need recommendations on a switches that I can use to
> setup a 100Mbps Switched Ethernet hardware.

> Thanks.

 
 
 

Recommendation for 100Mbps Switched Ethernet hardware

Post by David » Wed, 15 Sep 1999 04:00:00



> Depends of

> - the size of the network you are running
> - The traffic
> - the number of servers
> - your budget

> Switches come in a variety of specs. I run a mix of HP (cheap and
> simple..  not very fast, good for small branches) and Bay Networks for
> heavy traffic... specially for our server room and large
> headquarters...  flexible...expensive..but monsters.

Yep.  You can get cheap 4-port unmanaged switches for around $100.

You can also get switches that can do routing, filtering and firewalling
for hundreds of ports for a price several orders of magnitude higher.

-- David

 
 
 

Recommendation for 100Mbps Switched Ethernet hardware

Post by The Bon » Wed, 15 Sep 1999 04:00:00


I don't get it, what is the answer. we all know higher and lower price.
The Bond


> > Depends of

> > - the size of the network you are running
> > - The traffic
> > - the number of servers
> > - your budget

> > Switches come in a variety of specs. I run a mix of HP (cheap and
> > simple..  not very fast, good for small branches) and Bay Networks for
> > heavy traffic... specially for our server room and large
> > headquarters...  flexible...expensive..but monsters.

> Yep.  You can get cheap 4-port unmanaged switches for around $100.

> You can also get switches that can do routing, filtering and firewalling
> for hundreds of ports for a price several orders of magnitude higher.

> -- David

 
 
 

Recommendation for 100Mbps Switched Ethernet hardware

Post by Rod Smi » Thu, 16 Sep 1999 04:00:00





>: Yep.  You can get cheap 4-port unmanaged switches for around $100.

> -switches- or dual speed (dual segment) repeated hubs?

> cheapest I've seen is the bay unit (something '104' as the model #) for
> about $165.

> if there's truly a 10/100 switch for $100, I'd like to know!

Check:

http://www.buy.com/comp/product.asp?SKU=10140760

As near as I can tell from Linksys's web site, this is a true switch, but
it's conceivable that Linksys is hiding something in the fine print.
(It's the Linksys EtherFast 5-port switch, model EZXS55W.)  The price at
Buycomp is $93.95.

The last time I checked, Buycomp also had a 4-port switch for about the
same price, but now I can only find it for $137.95.  (Buycomp's prices do
tend to bounce around a lot.)

--
Rod Smith

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~smithrod
Author of _Special Edition Using Corel WordPerfect 8 for Linux_, from Que

 
 
 

Recommendation for 100Mbps Switched Ethernet hardware

Post by Lloyd Parson » Thu, 16 Sep 1999 04:00:00


If you don't get it, then you need to do some reading about
switches.  Low end, cheaper switches are fine for smaller
networks, but for those times when you really NEED the
management, then those switches don't cut it.

We use a Cisco switch because of the management features ---
price was not a serious consideration, although considered.
We needed that.

At home, I run a small network, on a cheap switch --- it is
better than a hub, but it doesn't have any management.  For
that situation, it is fine.

So basically, you have to define the problem before you can
pick the hardware.

Lloyd


>I don't get it, what is the answer. we all know higher and
lower price.
>The Bond



>> > Depends of

>> > - the size of the network you are running
>> > - The traffic
>> > - the number of servers
>> > - your budget

>> > Switches come in a variety of specs. I run a mix of HP
(cheap and
>> > simple..  not very fast, good for small branches) and
Bay Networks for
>> > heavy traffic... specially for our server room and
large
>> > headquarters...  flexible...expensive..but monsters.

>> Yep.  You can get cheap 4-port unmanaged switches for
around $100.

>> You can also get switches that can do routing, filtering
and firewalling
>> for hundreds of ports for a price several orders of
magnitude higher.

>> -- David

 
 
 

Recommendation for 100Mbps Switched Ethernet hardware

Post by David » Thu, 16 Sep 1999 04:00:00





>>> Depends of

>>> - the size of the network you are running
>>> - The traffic
>>> - the number of servers
>>> - your budget

>>> Switches come in a variety of specs. I run a mix of HP (cheap and
>>> simple..  not very fast, good for small branches) and Bay Networks
>>> for heavy traffic... specially for our server room and large
>>> headquarters...  flexible...expensive..but monsters.

>> Yep.  You can get cheap 4-port unmanaged switches for around $100.

>> You can also get switches that can do routing, filtering and
>> firewalling for hundreds of ports for a price several orders of
>> magnitude higher.

> I don't get it, what is the answer. we all know higher and lower
> price.

There is no single answer.  One size definitely does not fit all.

The original poster simply asked "what's best".  To answer that simply
by naming a brand/model would be incredibly irresponsible.

For example.  Imagine two different LANs:

LAN 1 is a small/home office with about 10 devices (computers, maybe a
few printers), and 5-6 employees.  There's no real need for security,
because everybody knows everybody else, and the amount of bandwidth used
is pretty low, because all the access is just grabbing files from a
server and printing them.

LAN2 is a mid-size corporation with 300 employees and 1000 network
devices.  Management is concerned with security, and some people/servers
consume large amounts of bandwidth throughout the day.

A cheap $150 unmanaged layer-2 switch would be just fine for LAN 1.  It
would be quite useless for LAN 2.

A $15,000 layer-2/layer-3 switch with over 100 ports, SMTP management
and other features would probably be a good idea for LAN 2.  It would be
a colossal waste of money for LAN 1.

-- David

 
 
 

Recommendation for 100Mbps Switched Ethernet hardware

Post by Jason Rosenber » Thu, 16 Sep 1999 04:00:00



> For example.  Imagine two different LANs:

> LAN 1 is a small/home office with about 10 devices (computers, maybe a
> few printers), and 5-6 employees.  There's no real need for security,
> because everybody knows everybody else, and the amount of bandwidth used
> is pretty low, because all the access is just grabbing files from a
> server and printing them.

> LAN2 is a mid-size corporation with 300 employees and 1000 network
> devices.  Management is concerned with security, and some people/servers
> consume large amounts of bandwidth throughout the day.

> A cheap $150 unmanaged layer-2 switch would be just fine for LAN 1.  It
> would be quite useless for LAN 2.

> A $15,000 layer-2/layer-3 switch with over 100 ports, SMTP management
> and other features would probably be a good idea for LAN 2.  It would be
> a colossal waste of money for LAN 1.

Can you offer a few short words on what is "layer-2", "layer-3", "unmanaged",
and difference between a "switch" and/or a "hub"?

Thanks,

Jason

 
 
 

Recommendation for 100Mbps Switched Ethernet hardware

Post by David » Thu, 16 Sep 1999 04:00:00





>>> Depends of

>>> - the size of the network you are running
>>> - The traffic
>>> - the number of servers
>>> - your budget

>>> Switches come in a variety of specs. I run a mix of HP (cheap and
>>> simple..  not very fast, good for small branches) and Bay Networks
>>> for heavy traffic... specially for our server room and large
>>> headquarters...  flexible...expensive..but monsters.

>> Yep.  You can get cheap 4-port unmanaged switches for around $100.

> -switches- or dual speed (dual segment) repeated hubs?

> cheapest I've seen is the bay unit (something '104' as the model #)
> for about $165.

> if there's truly a 10/100 switch for $100, I'd like to know!

Let's see here.  Searching through the Data Comm Warehouse catalog for
cheap switches,
(http://www.warehouse.com/DataComm/Networking/HubsConcentrators/Switch...)
I found some:

Addtron Technologies 5 port 10/100 switch for $100
Allied Telesyn AT-FS203 (2-port 10/100) for $100
Linksys EtherFast 10/100 2-port for $100

There are several more (with 2-10 ports) if you're willing to go up to
the $165 price that you've seen.

Now, these switches are unmanaged, and may not have enough bandwidth to
go around if all ports get saturated with 100M traffic at once.  But
they're definitely not repeaters.

-- David

 
 
 

Recommendation for 100Mbps Switched Ethernet hardware

Post by David » Fri, 17 Sep 1999 04:00:00


Someone e-mailed me privately asking about what "layer-2", "layer-3",
"unmanaged" mean, and the difference between "switch" and "hub".  He
says he asked publicly, but the message hasn't arrived in my news
spool.  So, I'm just going to post the reply here.

For those of you who already know a lot about networking, this may seem
trivially simple.  I'm trying to keep it that way.  If I have anything
wrong, or if anything could be explained better, let me know.  I plan on
making this answer a FAQ for a web page I'm in the process of setting
up.

-- David

---------------------

- Hub - An incredibly generic term.  Any device that connects multiple
  network devices together.  Usually, when people refer to "hubs" they
  are referring to dumb repeaters.

  A repeater takes every packet that comes in and transmits it out every
  port.  Repeaters have no intelligence.  Repeaters can be used to
  increase cable-lengths, or to connect extra workstations to a network
  segment.  There are limits to what you can do with repeaters, however.
  For instance, Ethernet doesn't allow more than three repeaters between
  any two nodes on the network.

  If you use nothing but repeaters to make a large LAN, you won't get
  good performance, because every packet will be transmitted to every
  port on the network.  This is where switches become useful.

- Switch.  A very generic term for any device that moves packets from
  one place to another without broadcasting it to everybody.  A switch
  will examine the content of packets to determine which port the
  destination is connected to, and then send the packet only to that
  port.  There are layer-2 switches, layer-3 switches, and other
  switches that aren't as easily classified.

  Some kinds of networks (like ATM and frame-relay) only work when
  network devices are directly connected to switches.  Other kinds (like
  Ethernet) will allow devices other than switches to be attached to
  network devices.

The various layers refer to the layers of the OSI (Open Standards for
Interconnection) protocol stack:

     layer 1 is the physical layer.  The raw analog/optical signals that
             make up a physical network link are defined by layer 1
             standards.  The layer 1 specification defines how bits are
             encoded on the wire and how packets are delimited from one
             another.  SONET (a common fiber-optic standard), CSMA/CD
             (the layer-1 signalling used by 10M Ethernet), and V.90
             (used by 56K modems) are examples of layer-1 protocols.

     layer 2 is the data-link layer.  It defines useful packets that are
             made of the bits that layer 1 defines.  It defines
             information necessary for getting a packet from one node to
             another on the same network segment.  (All devices that are
             connected by the same physical wire or by only repeaters
             are said to be in the same segment.)  Ethernet, Token-Ring,
             and PPP are some examples of layer-2 protocols.

     layer 3 is the network layer.  It defines additional information
             for getting packets to nodes on other network segments.
             IP, NetBEUI, and IPX are some examples of layer 3
             protocols.

     layer 4 is the transport layer.  It provides flow-control and error
             control for layer-3 protocols.  It also defines ways to
             identify separate flows of traffic between two hosts (for
             example, port numbers) TCP and UDP are examples of layer 4
             protocols.

     layer 5 is the session layer.  It adds more features to layer 4,
             providing things like virtual full-duplex connectivity, and
             prioritized flow control.  This kind of functionality is
             usually provided by internal operating system features.
             Many layer-4 protocols (like TCP) include some layer-5
             features as well.

     layer 6 is the presentation layer.  It formats all the data in ways
             that make sense to the local operating system and its
             applcations.  The Berkeley sockets package and Microsoft's
             WinSock libraries are presentation-layer protocols.

     layer 7 is the application layer.  SMTP (the e-mail protocol), NNTP
             (the net-news protocol), and HTTP (the WWW protocol) are
             examples of layer-7 protocols.

A layer-2 switch is one that uses layer-2 information to figure out what
to do with a packet.  A layer-3 switch is one that uses layer-3
information to figure out what to do with it.

Layer-2 switches are often referred to as "bridges".  They forward
packets between two network segments based on layer-2 information, which
is the 6-byte source and destination MAC addresses on Ethernet networks.
They are called bridges because the "bridge" between two layer-2
segments, combining them into a single layer-3 network.

Layer-2 switches can only work with the layer-2 protocols they're
designed for.  Since the layer-2 protocol is usually tied closely to the
physical layer, this isn't usually a concern.  (For instance, you're
never going to see Token Ring packets on an Ethernet network.)

layer-3 switches are often referred to as "routers".  They forward
packets between two layer-2 network segments based on information in
each packet's layer-3 header.  They will rewrite a packet's layer-2
information in doing so, because layer-2 information from one segment is
usually uselsss on another segment.

Layer-3 switches can only work with the layer-3 protocols they're
designed for.  This is usually IP, but many networks will use other
protocols as well (like NetBEUI, IPX and AppleTalk).  If the router
doesn't have software to deal with those (and other) protocols, it not
be able to forward those kinds of packets to other networks.

Layer-2 switches are relatively simple devices.  They can learn the MAC
addresses of all attached nodes by snooping on every packet that they
receive.  They, therefore, can operate without any configuration.  Just
plug them in and go.

Sometimes, however, you may not want to use them in this way.  You may
want the switch to give priority to packets coming from certain MAC
addreses, or to packets coming from or going to specific ports.  Or
maybe you don't want to allow forwarding between certain groups of port.
A managed switch will give you the ability to configure stuff like this.
An unmanaged switch will have no such ability.

There are also managed repeaters (aka hubs), but they (obviously) are
incable of using the contents of any packets in deciding what to forward
where.

Layer-3 switches are almost always managed.  In order to operate, a
layer-3 switch must know what networks are reachable through each port.
If a network is reachable through more than one port, it has to have
some idea of which ports are "better".  (Maybe one port is less
congested, or maybe the packet will have to go through fewer routers to
get to the destination network.)  This "routing table" information can
be manually provided by the switch's operator, but for large and
complicated networks, it is usually learned dynamically using a routing
protocol.

A routing protocol is a program running on a layer-3 switch.  It keeps
the switch in communication with other switches on nearby networks.
Using routing protocols, the switch can be kept informed about the state
of distant networks and adjust its routing table appropriately.  RIP,
OSPF, and BGP are examples of routing protocols.

 
 
 

Recommendation for 100Mbps Switched Ethernet hardware

Post by David » Fri, 17 Sep 1999 04:00:00



> I'm an snmp nut <g>, so any pointers to some snmp-managable switches
> in the low-cost catagory?

I don't know of any, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

I'd recommend going to some of the more popular on-line catalogs and run
some searches.  You may be as surprised as I was when I found a 5 port
unmanaged switch for $100.

-- David

 
 
 

Recommendation for 100Mbps Switched Ethernet hardware

Post by David » Sat, 18 Sep 1999 04:00:00




>> - Hub - An incredibly generic term.  Any device that connects
>>   multiple network devices together.  Usually, when people refer to
>>   "hubs" they are referring to dumb repeaters.

> depends on the context; for an office 'port expander' the size of
> which you can hold in your palm, it won't be managable (dumb).  but
> alost any comms room hub will have snmp on it for management.  maybe
> even an embedded webserver and telnet.

Yes.  That's why I later mentioned that managed repeaters also exist.  I
was, however, targetting the message at non-corporate people.  When you
go into a computer store like CompUSA and look at the hubs, you find
mostly dumb repeaters and unmanaged layer-2 switches.

Quote:>>   A repeater takes every packet that comes in and transmits it out
>>   every port.  Repeaters have no intelligence.

> they do know about when a port is 'bad' and will cut off the bad
> station from the rest of the network.  too many collisions (sometimes)
> and definitely when a tolerance is horribly wrong.  certainly when no
> link is at the far end, the port will partition ('shut off') that
> port.

Yes.  I did oversimplify this a bit.  I'll include this in my file.

Quote:>> Layer-2 switches are often referred to as "bridges".  They forward
>> packets between two network segments based on layer-2 information,
>> which is the 6-byte source and destination MAC addresses on Ethernet
>> networks.  They are called bridges because the "bridge" between two
>> layer-2 segments, combining them into a single layer-3 network.

> also part of bridging is running a distributed algorithm called
> 'spanning tree'. which essentially exists to remove loops (cycles)
> from extended lans.  if a lan has a loop, frames will travel thru and
> thru and never really expire.  IP doesn't need this since the protocol
> has a 'time to live' field and if some lost packet circles thru too
> many times, it will auto-expire.

Again true.  I didn't think this was very important for a typical user
to know.  It's more important for anyone trying to design or build a
bridge (perhaps with software on a PC) to know.

Quote:>> layer-3 switches are often referred to as "routers".  They forward
>> packets between two layer-2 network segments based on information in
>> each packet's layer-3 header.  They will rewrite a packet's layer-2
>> information in doing so, because layer-2 information from one segment
>> is usually uselsss on another segment.

> slight problem with this.  'useless on the other segment'?  ethernet
> addr's are (should be) globally unique so there's no problem in merely
> repeating the frame as-is on the other segment.  but the destination
> address of the next-hop router has to be modified if that router is
> supposed to relay that packet.

I should have said "network" instead of "segment".  Layer-2 information
is definitely valid when transmitted across bridges.

The addresses are not necessarily unique, however.  The Ethernet spec
allows for host-assigned addresses, which may be used instead of the
factory-assigned addresses.  If they are used, it is possible for two
hosts on two different networks to have the same layer-2 address.  (It
wouldn't be a smart thing to do, but that's another subject.)

Either way, if you forward a packet from one network to another and
don't rewrite the layer-2 information, it won't go anywhere.  That's
what I meant by "useless".  I'll clarify this in my next revision.

Quote:>> Layer-3 switches can only work with the layer-3 protocols they're
>> designed for.  This is usually IP, but many networks will use other
>> protocols as well (like NetBEUI, IPX and AppleTalk).  If the router
>> doesn't have software to deal with those (and other) protocols, it
>> not be able to forward those kinds of packets to other networks.

> usually these days, routers can fallback to bridging mode and bridge
> what they can't natively route.

Maybe.  It depends on how they're configured.  If each port is connected
to a different network/subnet, this won't happen.  If multiple ports are
connected to the same network/subnet, then the router may bridge packets
between those ports.

But that's not really a feature of a layer-3 switch.  It is layer-2
functionality.  As I said early on, there exist switches which provide
both layer-2 and layer-3 functionality.  A router that also bridges some
packets is such a switch.

-- David

 
 
 

Recommendation for 100Mbps Switched Ethernet hardware

Post by Jim Matusk » Sat, 18 Sep 1999 04:00:00


I would recommend Cisco hardware, they make some really cool switches
ranging from about $700 to thousands of dollars depending on what speed,
port density and features you need.  check them out online at www.cisco.com
you can get a local cisco representative to get in touch with you for more
advice.  Cisco equipment is more expensive then some other brands, but you
get what you pay for.  I beleive last I check their equipment makes up about
85% of the equipment that is connected to the internet.


Quote:> Specifically, I need recommendations on a switches that I can use to
> setup a 100Mbps Switched Ethernet hardware.

> Thanks.

 
 
 

1. 1 * ZLBwnevnG-Recommendation for 100Mbps Switched Ethernet hardwa re

No.  I didn't say it wouldn't be smart to assign your own MAC
addresses.  I said it wouldn't be smart to assign the same MAC address
to two different computers on two different networks.  It's asking for
trouble when a problem arises and you've got to start debugging from
sniffer output.

But it didn't require two hosts to have the same address, right?  (I
hope!)

Ah yes.  But if you allow this, you defeat the purpose of having subnets
within your organization - reducing broadcast traffic.  When you start
bridging between subnets, you usually end up subjecting both subnets to
much needless traffic.

It's usually better to try and find appropriate routing software for the
protocol(s) you need (like AppleTalk or IPX), or find a way to tunnel
those protocols over IP (which many protocols now support).  Or
rearrange your subnets so that hosts with these protocols don't have to
transmit anything across the router.

And before you give the inevitable "but what if...", yes, there will be
situations where these aren't feasable.  I'm just saying that bridging
between subnets should be seen as a last resort solution for when
nothing else works.  It shouldn't be the first thing you decide to do
when setting up a network.

-- David

2. Specs: Shinho AV2 785F

3. FS: new 3Com SS II ethernet switch 12 100mbps 10baseT "cheap"

4. FS: BLOWOUT:Only 1 case left arley Hahn's "Open Computing Unix Unbound" - $3+ shipping.

5. Switching Off An Ethernet Client With A Hardware Switch

6. Serial port io too slow!

7. Recommendations for ethernet cards and other hardware wanted...

8. Isp and Realplayer

9. cheap switch or expensive hub? (switch/hub recommendations)

10. Hardware Switch To Completely Disconnect From Ethernet

11. recommendation on hardware recommendation

12. 100mbps switched network, slow transfer rates.

13. DEC 21x4x and 100Mbps switch problems?