Very Computer

I'm trying to get Outlook Express to retrieve mail from a sendmail server
running on a small LAN.  sendmail is working fine -- I can use elm to send &
receive mail.  As I understand it, elm goes directly to the user's mail
directory and reads the mailbox file.  Outlook (over the network) uses POP3.
When Outlook tries to retrieve mail, it gives an error message that says:

The connection to the server has failed. Account: '*le Mail Server',
Server: 'my.host.domain', Protocol: POP3, Port: 110, Secure(SSL): No, Socket
Error: 10060, Error Number: 0x800CCC0E

I can telnet to port 110 and I get POP3.  I notice in the error message
something about Secure(SSL) - - is it trying to do a secure connection?  I
haven't told Outlook that I want it connecting securely.

I really want to get this working so I can give my kids their own email
accounts that they can use from their Windows machines.  Any advice is
really appreciated.

Thanks,

Brian

You said...

Quote:> I'm trying to get Outlook Express to retrieve mail from a sendmail
> server running on a small LAN.  sendmail is working fine -- I can use
> elm to send & receive mail.  As I understand it, elm goes directly to
> the user's mail directory and reads the mailbox file.  Outlook (over
> the network) uses POP3. When Outlook tries to retrieve mail, it gives an
> error message that says:

> The connection to the server has failed. Account: '*le Mail Server',
> Server: 'my.host.domain', Protocol: POP3, Port: 110, Secure(SSL): No,
> Socket Error: 10060, Error Number: 0x800CCC0E

> I can telnet to port 110 and I get POP3.  I notice in the error message
> something about Secure(SSL) - - is it trying to do a secure connection?
> I haven't told Outlook that I want it connecting securely.

        route del default

Then try to collect mail with one of the Outlook Express clients. I
wandered about for weeks trying to get this to work and this was the cure.

Also, give the server for pop3 and smtp as the address [xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx]
of the linux box, not its name, it makes the connection quicker and does
not rely on any name service being set up right.

If the removal of the default root does solve the problem you will either
need to find out how to make its removal permanent, or issue the command
after every boot of the mail server.

I've asked a general question in another message as to what exactly this
default route is, so perhaps one of the smart guys will give me a hint.

Ed Form

Andy

You said...

Quote:> Routes tell the computer how to get to other networks.  Think of a route
> as the path from one city to the other..its exactly the same as that.
> If you want to force a specific route(eg.  you must take I476N to I81N
> to NY 17W) to be used to get to a specific network, you would use the
> route command to build the rules.  The default route is just that; the
> route that gets used if nothing has been defined for a host that the
> computer is attempting to access...so usually, you do want a default
> route.  (Bascially it says go from here to here anyway you can).  Why
> that fixed you're problem, i'm not sure, but i suggest picking up a copy
> of 'Linux Network Servers' by 24-7 publishing, or 'RH Linux Unleased' by
> Sams publishing.  Both are excellent books, but i recommend the first
> one as it focuses on setup services and using the linux box in a buiness
> enviroment.  Specifically, one of the chapters deals with sendmail and
> setting up pop3 and imap mailer servers using linux.

Ed Form

I've spent the whole day working systematically through the networking
setup of my system and altered just about everything in sight, but I still
cannot get local email to flow between the Linux/Samba server and the
Win98 clients unless I issue the command...

        route del default

...at the Linux server. As soon as I do this the mail starts to flow. As
far as I can see the only effect of the command is to remove one route
from the table as follows...

CorelLinux:~# netstat -rn
Kernel IP routing table
Destination    Gateway        Genmask        Flags  MSS Window irtt Iface
192.168.42.0   0.0.0.0        255.255.255.0  U        0 0         0  eth0
0.0.0.0        192.168.42.15  0.0.0.0        UG       0 0         0  eth0
CorelLinux:~# route del default
CorelLinux:~# netstat -rn
Kernel IP routing table
Destination    Gateway        Genmask        Flags  MSS Window irtt Iface
192.168.42.0    0.0.0.0       255.255.255.0  U        0 0         0  eth0
CorelLinux:~#

I can find neither hide nor hair of an explanation for this effect in any
of the huge pile of documents dealing with Linux networking that I now
proudly stack on my desk, but I also note that issuing this command is
also essential to make ISP connections work in this system so I think I
will cry off at this stage and accept the situation. It certainly does not
seem to effect anything else in the network which still runs like a train.

Bearing in mind that this is a very simple situtation with 1 Linux/Samba
server and 10 Win98 client boxes, no subnets, no domain names, no Wins,
nothing but simple address-file based networking, and we will never
require external mail facilities of the demand-from-client variety, can I
just run the command every time the sytem is booted and live with the
mystery? If so, in which file should I put the command, and in what form?

Ed Form

Thanks for the info!  When I did the route del default as you suggest, I
Outlook did connect with the POP3 server as you predicted.  I run DNS, and
had set the mail server as the host.domain.name.  The problems was that
after issuing the route del default, other aspects of my network wouldn't
work.  Then, I replaced the host.domain.name with the IP address of the mail
server without issuing the route del default.  This worked -- almost.

The problem now is that when Outlook connects with POP3, POP3 denies access
because of (reportedly) a bad login/password combination.  The
login/password does log me into the machine -- is POP3 looking for a
different login/password than just a "regular" user login?

It is soooo close to working . . . If I can figure out this last bit, I'll
go back (when I have more time) and figure out why using the POP3 server's
name doesn't work when the IP does.

Brian

Quote:> This is driving me nuts.

> I've spent the whole day working systematically through the networking
> setup of my system and altered just about everything in sight, but I still
> cannot get local email to flow between the Linux/Samba server and the
> Win98 clients unless I issue the command...

> route del default

> ...at the Linux server. As soon as I do this the mail starts to flow. As
> far as I can see the only effect of the command is to remove one route
> from the table as follows...

> CorelLinux:~# netstat -rn
> Kernel IP routing table
> Destination    Gateway        Genmask        Flags  MSS Window irtt Iface
> 192.168.42.0   0.0.0.0        255.255.255.0  U        0 0         0  eth0
> 0.0.0.0        192.168.42.15  0.0.0.0        UG       0 0         0  eth0
> CorelLinux:~# route del default
> CorelLinux:~# netstat -rn
> Kernel IP routing table
> Destination    Gateway        Genmask        Flags  MSS Window irtt Iface
> 192.168.42.0    0.0.0.0       255.255.255.0  U        0 0         0  eth0
> CorelLinux:~#

> I can find neither hide nor hair of an explanation for this effect in any
> of the huge pile of documents dealing with Linux networking that I now
> proudly stack on my desk, but I also note that issuing this command is
> also essential to make ISP connections work in this system so I think I
> will cry off at this stage and accept the situation. It certainly does not
> seem to effect anything else in the network which still runs like a train.

> Bearing in mind that this is a very simple situtation with 1 Linux/Samba
> server and 10 Win98 client boxes, no subnets, no domain names, no Wins,
> nothing but simple address-file based networking, and we will never
> require external mail facilities of the demand-from-client variety, can I
> just run the command every time the sytem is booted and live with the
> mystery? If so, in which file should I put the command, and in what form?

> Ed Form

Quote:>can I just run the command every time the sytem is booted and live with
>the mystery? If so, in which file should I put the command, and in what
>form?

--
 -| Bob Hauck
 -| Codem Systems, Inc.
 -| http://www.codem.com/

You said...

Quote:> Thanks for the info!  When I did the route del default as you suggest, I
> Outlook did connect with the POP3 server as you predicted.  I run DNS,
> and had set the mail server as the host.domain.name.  The problems was
> that after issuing the route del default, other aspects of my network
> wouldn't work.  Then, I replaced the host.domain.name with the IP
> address of the mail server without issuing the route del default.  This
> worked -- almost.

> The problem now is that when Outlook connects with POP3, POP3 denies
> access because of (reportedly) a bad login/password combination.  The
> login/password does log me into the machine -- is POP3 looking for a
> different login/password than just a "regular" user login?

> It is soooo close to working . . . If I can figure out this last bit,
> I'll go back (when I have more time) and figure out why using the POP3
> server's name doesn't work when the IP does.

However, thanks to Bob Hauck, I now know how to get rid of even that
inconvenience. Setting the default gateway to 0.0.0.0 kills the need to
delete the default gateway pointer.

Being a newbie myself I'm not really the right guy to advise on your
specific problems - Red Hat and Corel are a bit different, but I will
happily write up my full solution to give you a start if you email me.

For the experienced users, I would like to stress that a very important
user group is not being properly considered in the information available
about Linux networking. Search as much as I can, I cannot find any HOWTO
information directed particularly to the single segment network with
Linux/Samba server and Win98 clients. All the documentation wanders off
into gateways and domains and all the stuff needed to support larger,
subnet or connected/distributed net systems. These concepts and tools are
simply not needed in a very large number of cases, and their presence in
the equation serves only to confuse. Can we have some literature which
addresses the needs of the small workplace/home network and does not
carelessly force unnecessary 'solutions' upon them.

I intend to write up my own experiences and publish the result on the web,
but that will have to wait until I have reached the necessary level of
understanding. I'm sure that there are dozens of you out there who already
could produce such documents.

Regards

Ed Form

Ed Form

You said...

Quote:> Only one default route will be used.  If you have one pointing to your
> lan then you can't have one pointing to your isp.  If this box is the
> gateway for your lan, and it uses ppp, then you should not set a default
> gateway in your ethernet setup, but let pppd do it when the link comes
> up.

> >can I just run the command every time the sytem is booted and live with
> >the mystery? If so, in which file should I put the command, and in what
> >form?

> What you should do is configure your networking without a default
> gateway. Go back to whatever tool you used to set it up (Linuxconf?) and
> delete the default gateway.

Many thanks

Ed Form

Quote:> I intend to write up my own experiences and publish the result on the
web,
> but that will have to wait until I have reached the necessary level
of
> understanding. I'm sure that there are dozens of you out there who
already
> could produce such documents.

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