Windows4GL on PC platform.

Windows4GL on PC platform.

Post by Paul Andre » Sun, 11 Dec 1994 10:00:54



Here' a challenge. I'm developing an application for the PC platform. It will be
deployed in a non-technical environment - not a system adminstrator in sight! It's
important to hold costs down - I'd like to make a profit!

The application is a multimedia one so iI need a GUI tool. I'd like to use my old
favourite Windows4GL but this seems a challenge given the platform and cost
constraints.

I need to be able to start this project single user and then migrate to multiuser when the
the product is accepted by the customer..

Unix is OUT - too technical for the customer and (s)he will inevitably want to run
MS Appllications. Please don't tell me about DOS merge!

Currently I am thinking in terms of w4gl running against a non-ingres database through ODBC on Windows or OS/2. Anyone have any advice/war stories?

An alternative suggested to me is w4gl for MS-windows running against an IINGRES server on OS/2. Is this possible ?

Any recommendations for a database to run Windows4GL against using ODBC in a single-user environment?

I'm used to Ingres on Unix or VMS. Stand-alone PCs are a challenge. Any suggestions for a report-writer or is Q+A 'the answer?

All suggestions appreciated.

Paul Andrews.

 
 
 

Windows4GL on PC platform.

Post by R. D. Dav » Sun, 11 Dec 1994 13:26:03




>Here' a challenge. I'm developing an application for the PC platform. It will

My Sun workstation is a PC... are you referring to those IBM type toy PCs
or any type of personal computer which includes my smaller PDP-11s?

Quote:>deployed in a non-technical environment - not a system adminstrator in sight!

Doesn't that sort of take all of the fun out of things?

Quote:>I need to be able to start this project single user and then migrate to
>multiuser when the
>the product is accepted by the customer..

But then you say (if you need to go to multiuser, then what's better
than UNIX?):

Quote:>Unix is OUT - too technical for the customer and (s)he will inevitably want
>to run
>MS Appllications. Please don't tell me about DOS merge!

Errrmmm... how can you say that UNIX is too technical?  As one who has
worked with UNIX (various flavors), VAX/VMS, AOS/VS, CP/M, MP/M,
MS-DOS (uggh!!! groan...), MPE-IV, RT-11, TSX-Plus, POS, Accent and a
few other operating systems, I fail to see how you can call UNIX "too
technical".  Text-based UNIX is about the nicest, and friendliest,
operating system that I've ever used (I use it at home too); it has
many more features that operating systems such as MS-DOS (if you
actually want to call MS-DOS an operating system) which make it much
more useful and flexible.  UNIX is fun and easy to use.  Anyone who
believes that UNIX is too difficult to use has no business being
anywhere within 25 feet of a computer.

Long live text-based UNIX!

Quote:>Currently I am thinking in terms of w4gl running against a non-ingres
>database through ODBC on Windows or OS/2. Anyone have any advice/war stories?

MS-Windoze and OS/2 are not multi-user operating systems.

Quote:>An alternative suggested to me is w4gl for MS-windows running against an
>IINGRES server on OS/2. Is this possible ?

Why would you want to do that?  Just stick with UNIX.  With the right
C-code and shell script hacks, you can make it very user-friendly and
set it up so that a minimal amount of system administration is
required.  

Quote:>Any recommendations for a database to run Windows4GL against using ODBC in
>a single-user environment?

UNIX, or even VAX/VMS, in single-user mode. ;-)

Quote:>I'm used to Ingres on Unix or VMS. Stand-alone PCs are a challenge. Any
>suggestions for a report-writer or is Q+A 'the answer?

I still think that UNIX is still the way to go... stay with UNIX and
avoid the headaches.

--
R.D. Davis           |         Eccentrics have more fun! :-)
...uunet!mystica!rdd |

1-410-744-7964       |

 
 
 

Windows4GL on PC platform.

Post by Roy Ha » Sun, 11 Dec 1994 15:17:34


: Here' a challenge. I'm developing an application for the PC platform.
: It will be deployed in a non-technical environment - not a system
: adminstrator in sight! It's important to hold costs down - I'd like to
: make a profit!
:
: The application is a multimedia one so iI need a GUI tool. I'd like to
: use my old favourite Windows4GL but this seems a challenge given the
: platform and cost constraints.
:
: I need to be able to start this project single user and then migrate to
: multiuser when the the product is accepted by the customer..
:
: Unix is OUT - too technical for the customer and (s)he will inevitably
: want to run MS Appllications. Please don't tell me about DOS merge!

I don't see why you single out Unix in this way.  In a non-technical
environment (in fact anywhere outside the programmer's stinking lair), the
operating system should be invisible to the user.  That goes for Unix, for
VMS, and for OS/2 and the rest.  People buy computers to do useful work, not
to run operating systems--if they can see it, we didn't do our job properly.
Unix is as easy to hide as any operating system.  DOS and anything built
on it is just about impossible to hide; it's kind of like trying to hide
broken bottles in your mattress.

The * jagged edges of DOS poke through MS-Windows to the point where
I have to say it is the LAST operating system (using the term "operating
system" loosely) I'd want to deploy in the field if I wanted to make a profit.
OS/2 is quite a bit better given the need to run MS software, but best by far
is WindowsNT.

: Currently I am thinking in terms of w4gl running against a non-ingres
: database through ODBC on Windows or OS/2. Anyone have any advice/war
: stories?
:
: An alternative suggested to me is w4gl for MS-windows running against
: an IINGRES server on OS/2. Is this possible ?

Yes. But I really don't think you want to deploy W4GL on MS-Windows in the
the field.  If you are on-site all the time, or if the users are sufficiently
computer-wise it's OK, but otherwise I'd be really slow to go that route.
It is just that MS-Windows is too fragile, and W4GL is a punishing load for it.

There are people who claim that W4GL on OS/2 can be used successfully, but
without intending to re-open any old flames, I have to say I was never one
of them.  Maybe the latest rev is better.  On the other hand, W4GL and the
INGRES server on WindowsNT is really very fine indeed.

My suggestion is to start out with the W4GL application and the INGRES server
running on a single NT box for your single user configuration, and then
add NT clients as you go multi-user.  With no sysadmins on hand, NT makes
even more sense, because you can finally do central administration on the
PCs, and using the built-in replication server you can distribute software
updates totally transparently.  The somewhat higher hardware costs will be
well worth it, if only because you won't see another GPF!

: Any recommendations for a database to run Windows4GL against using ODBC
: in a single-user environment?
:
: I'm used to Ingres on Unix or VMS. Stand-alone PCs are a challenge. Any
: suggestions for a report-writer or is Q+A 'the answer?

As of the moment, the native INGRES Report Writer is not available for NT.
It is for MS-Windows and for OS/2.  I recently looked at SQR Workbench from
MITI and it looked good.  ReportSmith is OK.

: All suggestions appreciated.

Or you could have NT clients and a Unix-based server.

BTW, all this NT boosting is very painful to me.  I am no fan of Bill Gates
and nothing would please me more that to see him fall on his *, but
unfortunately that Cutler guy he hired knows his stuff and has handed Bill
a fine product.  Remembering that it was Cutler and not Gates who is behind
it lets me sleep at night. :-)

--Roy Hann

 
 
 

Windows4GL on PC platform.

Post by J|rgen Coetsie » Tue, 13 Dec 1994 19:41:31


Quote:>Here' a challenge. I'm developing an application for the PC platform. It=20
will be
>deployed in a non-technical environment - not a system adminstrator in=20
sight! It's
>important to hold costs down - I'd like to make a profit!
>Currently I am thinking in terms of w4gl running against a non-ingres=20

database through ODBC on Windows or OS/2. Anyone have any advice/war=
 stories?
Quote:>An alternative suggested to me is w4gl for MS-windows running against an=20

IINGRES server on OS/2. Is this possible ?
Instead of using Windows, I advise to take a look at NT. Our company is=20
curently migrating from a UNIX-environment (IBM-RT with Oracle) into a=20
NT-environment. Our Ingres Database runs on a Pentium 90 with 32MB and our=
=20
cli=EBnts are for the power-users 486-66 16MB with NT and for the normal=
 users=20
486-40 8MB with Dos/Windows. If you hate GPF's, then forget about=20
Dos/Windows. Using NT demands more about the hardware you are running on and=
=20
so it costs more but you win it back in no time because you can forget about=
=20
GPF's. We have made the decision to migrate all our pc's to NT.

Quote:>Any recommendations for a database to run Windows4GL against using ODBC in=

=20
a single-user environment?
You could of course use Ingres as a database. You can run both the database=
=20
and the Windows4GL cli=EBnt on NT. So for testing the application at your=20
client, you won't need a network. I use it in this way to do development and=
=20
I must say that it works rather nice. As for ODBC to Ingres, it isn't all=20
that stable. I've been using it since a day or two and all I saw was GPF,=20
GPF, GPF, ... There are a few other companies that sell ODBC-drivers that do=
=20
not need Ingres/Net. You should check them out, maybe they are more stable.

Quote:>Any suggestions for a report-writer or is Q+A 'the answer?

I am also looking for a good reportwriter on PC, so any recommendations are=
=20
appreciated.

____________________________________________________________________________=
___
J=FCrgen Coetsiers                                    =20
Volcke Aerosol Company n.v.                     E-mail :=20

Industrielaan 15 B-8520 Kuurne
Belgium

                Phone : 056/35.17.23  Fax : 056/35.30.69
                ----------------------------------------   =20
                  You may type 'win' but still you lose

 
 
 

Windows4GL on PC platform.

Post by Tim Holm » Tue, 13 Dec 1994 22:38:41



: : Here' a challenge. I'm developing an application for the PC platform.
: : It will be deployed in a non-technical environment - not a system
: : adminstrator in sight! It's important to hold costs down - I'd like to
: : make a profit!
: :
: Yes. But I really don't think you want to deploy W4GL on MS-Windows in the
: the field.  If you are on-site all the time, or if the users are sufficiently
: computer-wise it's OK, but otherwise I'd be really slow to go that route.
: It is just that MS-Windows is too fragile, and W4GL is a punishing load for it.

I kind of agree with Roy, W4GL under Windoze is not the best combination,
although OpenROAD may be a completely different kettle of fish.

My unbiased advice would be to look at Gupta SQLWindows SOLO edition. This
can be downloaded for free from wji.com and is a full blown copy of Guptas
SQLWindows tool (with a few less bells and whistles). The only downside is
that it comes with a restricted 5Mb SQLbase database, but then they have to
make their money somewhere... (the 5Mb engine and applications built with
Solo can also be deployed royalty free).

Although only slightly more stable than Windows/4GL (I blame Windoze for
this, with both tools), it does trap errors and allow you to save your
current work most of the time.

It has lots of expandability options including routers for Ingres and other
databases, as well as their own SQLBase product.

If however you want something _really_ cheap, you might like to look at
Linux. This is so cheap as to be free, but then its based on Unix and we
go back to Roys arguments and your reservations.

--
------------------------------------------------

------------------------------------------------

 
 
 

1. Windows4GL on PC platform.

How about some older technology?  Look into File Sharing systems such as
dBase IV or V, Paradox, FoxBase, or Clipper.  Clipper expecially has been
used to do some really sexy stuff and has lots of add-on code libraries
that make adding complicated functions (modem support) pretty easy.  If
you don't need and don't want the cost and overhead of a database server
then don't use one.  To go multi-user make sure you have already included
ALL your locking code in the initial design, then add a File Server and
migrate your database files.  Change the location of data files in your
application (some sort of global define probably) and recompile.

I've done this.  It works but there are other problems with it.  email me
with questions and I'll explain in detail my experience.

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2. Execute a SQL statement against a cube

3. Windows4GL on PC platform

4. Progress & Linux?

5. Reports from a PC Windows4GL application?

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10. Netlib versions available for PC platform ?

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12. .wav file database for pc platform

13. ingres on PC-unix platforms