PICK, UniVerse, Unix and what-have you (info request)

PICK, UniVerse, Unix and what-have you (info request)

Post by Jon McCo » Mon, 24 Sep 1990 07:00:17



I have been encountering more than the usual (low number) references to
PICK of late, and more specifically 'guest' environments (such as UniVerse)
which allow PICK to run as a guest under Unices.

Specifically my questions are:
        1-      How usable, stable, maintainable and scalable is PICK
                (generally) and what (if anything) changes when a non-
                native (such as Pick under Unix) implementation is used.

        2-      What vendors would you/would you not recommend for PICK
                and (can be general) reasons for recommendation.

        3-      Where can a small (cheap?) Pick environment be gotten
                for experimentation and testing? (Can be PC type for testing)

I have been reading Pick-World and a couple of texts on the system  
(describing Pick in 'glowingly lovely detail'), but what I really want
to know is if you now use/maintain a Pick system-- would you do it over?

Mail responses are welcome, postings are fine as well. Vendors beware.

- Jon McCown

(if this turns into a mail deluge, I will summarize)

--
             J.D. McCown - RCSG Director - Senate of Pennsylvania  
psuvax1!eds1!jdm1    (this space intentionally     "Your lupins or your life!"

 
 
 

PICK, UniVerse, Unix and what-have you (info request)

Post by Nick Pembert » Mon, 01 Oct 1990 00:15:06



>    1-      How usable, stable, maintainable and scalable is PICK
>            (generally) and what (if anything) changes when a non-
>            native (such as Pick under Unix) implementation is used.

Pick is probably one of the easiest O/S's to maintain. It is too simple
to really run into the kinds of troubles you typically see when machines
run out of disk space, out of power etc.  The installation is equally
simple (I recently set a machine up from scratch - new disk - it took
one tape, a few easy questions, and 1 hour of whirring to do it).

It is highly portable, if (like any OS) you stick to the vanilla stuff. I
have moved code easily between ADDS, ULTIMATE, PICK SYSTEMS and PRIME with
no trouble.

Scalability really depends on the vendor. Some are and some aren't. The O/S
certainly provides for it.

It is extremely stable. Our development (!) machine has not been down in
two years, except when we moved our office. Our client machines have even
better records.

When you move to a non native, like VMARK/UNIVERSE, there are naturally
plenty of things that change. It is, after all, then just a guest O/S.
That having been said, VMARK so far has caused me no grief, save certain
UNIX restrictions (like files not being able to span devices). Again, if
the PICK code is reasonably vanilla, it will have no trouble moving to
a Non-native implementation.

Quote:

>    2-      What vendors would you/would you not recommend for PICK
>            and (can be general) reasons for recommendation.

Wow. Loaded question! We currently *highly* favour the ADDS/NCR line,
they have what I consider one of the best Implementations, their machines
are very stable (they are based on the NCR tower line), and their
solution to UNIX/PICK is exactly how I believe the blend should be done.
See my earlier posting for details...

Incidently, since PICK is so much simpler then UNIX, it takes far less
horsepower then UNIX. Thus a 7 Mips machine (like the NCR Tower 700
series) is a real screamer in PICK. We have 80 users* off one
such machine, using good ol' Wyse 50 terminals, and they can't
get ahead of the machine. The IBM RISC 6000 should be something to
see - since there is I believe a native PICK for it. You'd have to check
with PICK systems on that.

We have in the past dealt with ULTIMATE and PRIME. Ultimate is a native
implementation, PRIME is not (although I'd rather avoid that argument
for the moment.)

We are presently looking at the new BULL DPX series, running Vmark. We've
yet to actually see one working, although we are told its RSN.

Quote:>    3-      Where can a small (cheap?) Pick environment be gotten
>            for experimentation and testing? (Can be PC type for testing)

You can get PICK for the PC. Your best bet is a 386 though, since a 286
can't handle the virtual memory scheme as well. ADDS and PICK Systems are
the two offerings that I've used. PICK systems has the better price,
ADDS has the better product.

Contact PICK systems for a vendor near you, or ADDS. I can provide the
numbers if you need them.

Quote:>I have been reading Pick-World and a couple of texts on the system  
>(describing Pick in 'glowingly lovely detail'), but what I really want
>to know is if you now use/maintain a Pick system-- would you do it over?

No question. It is a wonderfull Database system, rugged, and reasonably
full featured within its intended realm. Remember, PICK is not the answer
to all things - It is targetted at data management for business, and is
thus missing certain fundamentals - like decent communications. Thats
what the PICK/UNIX combinations are meant to solve.

--
Nick Pemberton                   uucp: !{lsuc, uunet!mnetor}!aimed!nick
AIM, Inc                          bus: (416) 429-1085
Toronto, Ontario, Canada         Home: (416) 690-0647

 
 
 

PICK, UniVerse, Unix and what-have you (info request)

Post by Robert Claes » Tue, 02 Oct 1990 03:47:53



Quote:>When you move to a non native, like VMARK/UNIVERSE, there are naturally
>plenty of things that change. It is, after all, then just a guest O/S.
>That having been said, VMARK so far has caused me no grief, save certain
>UNIX restrictions (like files not being able to span devices). Again, if
>the PICK code is reasonably vanilla, it will have no trouble moving to
>a Non-native implementation.

We recently installed UniVerse on an Encore Multimax. A file can be up
to 2 (4?) GB in size, since the system supports virtual partitions.
Code was moved from another non-native system (Prime Information) as
well as a native system (ADDS) to the new system without any problems
at all. Performance was greatly increased (after all, no other Pick-like
system, native or non-native, has outperformed the UniVerse/Multimax
combination).

Quote:>No question. It is a wonderfull Database system, rugged, and reasonably
>full featured within its intended realm. Remember, PICK is not the answer
>to all things - It is targetted at data management for business, and is
>thus missing certain fundamentals - like decent communications. Thats
>what the PICK/UNIX combinations are meant to solve.

Ah, that was one of the reasons to move to UniVerse on the Multimax.
UniVerse/Net makes it possible to run Pick applications in a client/
server environment, just like any other /Net database.

--



These opinions reflect my personal views and not those of my employer.

 
 
 

PICK, UniVerse, Unix and what-have you (info request)

Post by Robyn A Grunbe » Fri, 05 Oct 1990 10:42:12



>When you move to a non native, like VMARK/UNIVERSE, there are naturally
>plenty of things that change. It is, after all, then just a guest O/S.
>That having been said, VMARK so far has caused me no grief, save certain
>UNIX restrictions (like files not being able to span devices).

As one other person has already pointed out, this is only a restriction
on any Unix machine that does not handle virtual file systems.  I
believe the Encore Multimax was cited, but you can also add Pyramid to
this list.  Experience with various customers has shown that striped
disk can be a real advantage should you do any heavy disk I/O, typically
in long-running batch runs such as end of month routines.

Robyn Grunberg

#include <disclaimer.h>

 
 
 

1. Comparison of Pick and Pick/Unix requested

Hello.  Right now our division is trying to consolidate two companies'
Information Systems Departments.  One company runs Pick on a Honeywell
Ultimate, the other runs Information on a Prime.  The first company is
arguing that we need to go to a Pick Operating System.  The second is
arguing that we need to go to Pick/Unix.  This is where I need as much help
as I can get.  There is an existing ethernet LAN/WAN in the division.

What are the advantages of Pick OS over Pick/Unix?
What are the advantages of Pick/Unix over Pick OS?
What are the disadvantages of Pick OS?
What are the disadvantages of Pick/Unix?
What can I do in Pick OS that I cannot in Pick/Unix?
What can I do in Pick/Unix that I cannot in Pick OS?
Is one substantially easier to use than the other?
Does one have a longer future than the other?
Will one conversion be easier than the other (for both companies)?
Are there any compelling reasons to _NOT_ go with one or the other?

You get the idea.


Thank-you in advance.

--
 ____________________________________________________________________________

|     "When he sneezes, he looks like a party favor."       !uupsi!rrc!deh  |

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5. Pick/Basic with Universe back-end in an UNIX environment

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