Why should I use Visula FoxPro?

Why should I use Visula FoxPro?

Post by Gerhard Eggin » Mon, 17 Feb 1997 04:00:00



Can anyone give me some advice on which development tool I should use? Or
give me some links where I can find such information (I'm not the first to
make such a decision, I think).

In short time, our company will change its development tool. I'm asked to
look for new ones. We make applications for small and large enterprises
containing lots of large tables and databases, currently in Clipper (for
Dos). We want to change, but we have to take into account several things:

        client/server
        support of UNIX-server?
        support of ODBC
        runtime versions/ real executables
        effort of maintenance
        price
        resulting speed and size of the application

So far, I've come across Delphi, Visual FoxPro, Powerbuiler, MS-Access,
Magic. Are they what I'm looking for? Tell me!

Thanks in advance

Gerhard Eggink
Voorburg
the Netherlands


 
 
 

Why should I use Visula FoxPro?

Post by Leonid Khotomliansk » Tue, 18 Feb 1997 04:00:00


Well, keep in mind that it's only my humble opinion and there will be many
who disagree with me.
I'm developing a project using VFP 5.0. To tell you the truth I'm trying to
develop but so far have more problems than any tangible results. It's going
on for several months already, and before that I was using FoxPro DOS, and
before that - Clipper; and worked with MS-Access, C++, Pascal - that is,
I'm not a novice, and I've seen quite a few products beside FoxPro.

You've asked about:

Quote:>    client/server
>    support of UNIX-server?
>    support of ODBC
>    runtime versions/ real executables

VFP has it all and much more. When Microsoft finally makes it work
according to their own specs and documents all their "by design" features
(this is ridiculous, when they reply to users that such and such unexpected
and undocumented behavior is "by design") - well, then may be it would
become one of the coolest developers tool.
As it is right now, most of my time is spent to find work around some of
the undocumented features - I prefer to call them bugs, even if MS don't
recognize them as such. And gosh! is it slow!!!

I would recommend a product that's been around a little longer than several
months.
I was so e*d with all the features when I was learning VFP, and so
disappointed every time I tried to use them.

I wonder, if anyone else share my point of view?
Leonid.



> Can anyone give me some advice on which development tool I should use? Or
> give me some links where I can find such information (I'm not the first
to
> make such a decision, I think).

> In short time, our company will change its development tool. I'm asked to
> look for new ones. We make applications for small and large enterprises
> containing lots of large tables and databases, currently in Clipper (for
> Dos). We want to change, but we have to take into account several things:

>    client/server
>    support of UNIX-server?
>    support of ODBC
>    runtime versions/ real executables
>    effort of maintenance
>    price
>    resulting speed and size of the application

> So far, I've come across Delphi, Visual FoxPro, Powerbuiler, MS-Access,
> Magic. Are they what I'm looking for? Tell me!

> Thanks in advance

> Gerhard Eggink
> Voorburg
> the Netherlands




 
 
 

Why should I use Visula FoxPro?

Post by Anders Altbe » Tue, 18 Feb 1997 04:00:00


Quote:>>  most of my time is spent to find work around some of the

undocumented features <<

Leonid
Have you got any examples of the undocumented bug/features you've found?
-Anders

--

02/18/97 00:14
---------
Using: OUI PRO 1.5.0.2 from http://www.dvorak.com

 
 
 

Why should I use Visula FoxPro?

Post by Geoffrey M Ing » Tue, 18 Feb 1997 04:00:00




>Well, keep in mind that it's only my humble opinion and there will be many
>who disagree with me.
>I'm developing a project using VFP 5.0. To tell you the truth I'm trying to
>develop but so far have more problems than any tangible results. It's going
>on for several months already, and before that I was using FoxPro DOS, and
>before that - Clipper; and worked with MS-Access, C++, Pascal - that is,
>I'm not a novice, and I've seen quite a few products beside FoxPro.

>You've asked about:
>>        client/server
>>        support of UNIX-server?
>>        support of ODBC
>>        runtime versions/ real executables
>VFP has it all and much more. When Microsoft finally makes it work
>according to their own specs and documents all their "by design" features
>(this is ridiculous, when they reply to users that such and such unexpected
>and undocumented behavior is "by design") - well, then may be it would
>become one of the coolest developers tool.
>As it is right now, most of my time is spent to find work around some of
>the undocumented features - I prefer to call them bugs, even if MS don't
>recognize them as such. And gosh! is it slow!!!

>I would recommend a product that's been around a little longer than several
>months.
>I was so e*d with all the features when I was learning VFP, and so
>disappointed every time I tried to use them.

>I wonder, if anyone else share my point of view?
>Leonid.



>> Can anyone give me some advice on which development tool I should use? Or
>> give me some links where I can find such information (I'm not the first
>to
>> make such a decision, I think).

>> In short time, our company will change its development tool. I'm asked to
>> look for new ones. We make applications for small and large enterprises
>> containing lots of large tables and databases, currently in Clipper (for
>> Dos). We want to change, but we have to take into account several things:

>>        client/server
>>        support of UNIX-server?
>>        support of ODBC
>>        runtime versions/ real executables
>>        effort of maintenance
>>        price
>>        resulting speed and size of the application

>> So far, I've come across Delphi, Visual FoxPro, Powerbuiler, MS-Access,
>> Magic. Are they what I'm looking for? Tell me!

>> Thanks in advance

>> Gerhard Eggink
>> Voorburg
>> the Netherlands



Yeah, to a degree.  VFP has seriously tried my patience3 quite a few times
over the past year.  What I disliked the most was when the help said that
something should work this way when it really worked that way.

I have sexamples, but it's too early to pick my brain yet =)

Still, from what I've been able to gather from different sources, VFP is
still the best choice for the database management I've been doing here.  And
aolthough it ihas been a pain to learn and also has been somewhat enigmatic
at times for its "undocumented featuers" it still has manag3ed to do what
I've want ed it to do, but sometimes with a lot more work than I hoped for.

I guesss I'll stickw ith it =)

(I should mention that I had very little Fox experience before starting in
VFP)

BTW.  You said that it's only been around for a few months.  Yeah, 50 has
but 3.0 has been around longer than that..  is 5.0 that much radically
different from 3.0?

Take it easy - sorry for the typos and that particularly funny typo above.
Geoff

 
 
 

Why should I use Visula FoxPro?

Post by Joseph T. Ada » Tue, 18 Feb 1997 04:00:00


I have had problems with VFP but never yet had one that I could not
work around fairly easily.

There are several tricks I've learned that have helped me greatly.

(a) BACK UP DATA AND CODE FREQUENTLY!  This should go without saying.
It is always helpful to be able to go back to a recent, previous
version of a form, report, or class library - especially if you*
up the one you're currently working on.  :)

(b) Encapsulate!  Ideally, your application should consist of objects
that are more or less self-contained and which interact with each
other only to the extent that you want them to.  Toward this end, you
will want to use variables that are scoped LOCAL, form and class
properties instead of global variables, private data sessions where
appropriate, etc.  Give serious consideration to giving your classes
externally available properties and methods, from which you can do
what you need to do with them from outside them.

(c) Learn different ways to do the same thing.  This is especially
true when performance or system stability becomes an issue.  If you
learn of consistent weaknesses in the product (for example, lockups
when attempting to ORDER BY a field not in the result set), learn ways
of working around them when they occur, and, hopefully, avoiding them
altogether.  If an operation that yields a small record set takes a
long time, something is wrong.  You can join an almost unlimited
number of tables, of almost unlimited size, with extremely good
performance IF you take care to make sure your query is
Rushmore-optimizable (i.e., every join and filter condition matches an
existing and valid index tag).  The only queries that are unavoidably
slow are those that operate on non-indexed fields or those that return
a fairly large result set.

(d) Do things the way VFP is designed to do them.  VFP is a relational
database management system.  It is designed to work with related
tables, preferably in or close to third normal form, and it excels at
that task.  Trying to use it to do things it was not designed for,
such as writing CAD or spreadsheet or COM port management software,
won't give good results.  VFP is a great tool, but it is a RDBMS, not
a general purpose programming language.  Exceeding, or even
approaching, known design limitations (e.g., using tables that are 253
fields wide) also won't give good results.  Often, approaching these
limitations is an indication of poor table design.  It is rare for a
properly normalized database to have more than twelve fields in any
single table.  You can use SQL selects to join related tables, and
updatable views to modify them, without having to store any single
piece of information more than once.

(e)  Document your software carefully.  Each piece of your application
(each form, report, class, etc.) should have a brief summary of what
it does, what calls it, what it calls, what inputs it needs (e.g.
tables, class libraries, global variables, etc.); and all code whose
function is not patently obvious should have comments embedded within
that explains what each piece of code does and why.

To the inexperienced this may seem like a waste of time.  Just trust
those of us who have had to learn the hard way.  The only alternative
is to learn the hard way yourself.

(f) Don't be afraid to seek help.  That is, after all, what this forum
is all about.  But before seeking help, try your best to solve the
problem yourself.  Read the fine, friendly (fictitious?) manual.  Try
different approaches.  Try breaking a complex problem into its
simpler, component parts, and repeat as necessary until a child could
understand it (unless you are a child, in which case make it simple
enough that your parents can understand it).  :)  If all else fails,
then try us.  We're always glad to help.

Joe

 
 
 

Why should I use Visula FoxPro?

Post by Wesley Baltzel » Tue, 18 Feb 1997 04:00:00


Hello,

IMHO, Visual Fox is the way to go for most things.  The learning curve is a
shift away from normal xbase code, but after you get over the hump,  WOW.

IMHO,

Wes ;-)

 
 
 

Why should I use Visula FoxPro?

Post by Mark Wilde » Wed, 19 Feb 1997 04:00:00


I'd say VFP is the way to go for most _database_ things, but it's not the
best choice for a general purpose language.



Quote:> IMHO, Visual Fox is the way to go for most things.  The learning curve is
a
> shift away from normal xbase code, but after you get over the hump,  WOW.

 
 
 

Why should I use Visula FoxPro?

Post by The Bikema » Thu, 20 Feb 1997 04:00:00


Quote:> Can anyone give me some advice on which development tool I should use? Or
> give me some links where I can find such information (I'm not the first
to
> make such a decision, I think).
>    client/server
>    support of UNIX-server?
>    support of ODBC
>    runtime versions/ real executables
>    effort of maintenance
>    price
>    resulting speed and size of the application

> So far, I've come across Delphi, Visual FoxPro, Powerbuiler, MS-Access,
> Magic. Are they what I'm looking for? Tell me!

> Thanks in advance

I'm a foxpro programmer myself and all that count's for me is development
time and the final performance of the application:
1. Access is way to slow, the intire database is 1 huge file which sucks on
a network, further it cannot lock single records, only block pages which
could contain more then 1 record
2. Magic: dunno
3. Powerbuilder is faster in database performance than Delphi
4. Delphi is difficult to learn, it's a Pascal like language and not like
xBase at all, it's more a competitor for C++
5. Foxpro is still the fastest database language I know on a PC, I love the
use of SQL in it and it can read dBase and Clipper .dbf files (without the
index files unfortunally)
Both Delphi and Foxpro can build stand alone executables....
Development time depends only on the programmer himself, all the modern
languages have a form builder & report builder and all those thingies....

Just try this in Clipper:

select custname, invoiceno                      ;
  from customer, invoice                                ;
 where invoice.deb_no = customer.deb_no ;
  and invoice.date < date()-30                       ;
  and not invoice.payed                         ;
 into table result

This query can be optimized with indexes and can be run on 100.000+ record
tables within a second !
Delphi eat your hart out !

 
 
 

Why should I use Visula FoxPro?

Post by Kevin Mei » Thu, 27 Feb 1997 04:00:00



>> Can anyone give me some advice on which development tool I should use? Or
>> give me some links where I can find such information (I'm not the first
>to
>> make such a decision, I think).
>>       client/server
>>       support of UNIX-server?
>>       support of ODBC
>>       runtime versions/ real executables
>>       effort of maintenance
>>       price
>>       resulting speed and size of the application

>> So far, I've come across Delphi, Visual FoxPro, Powerbuiler, MS-Access,
>> Magic. Are they what I'm looking for? Tell me!

>> Thanks in advance

>I'm a foxpro programmer myself and all that count's for me is development
>time and the final performance of the application:
>1. Access is way to slow, the intire database is 1 huge file which sucks on
>a network, further it cannot lock single records, only block pages which
>could contain more then 1 record
>2. Magic: dunno
>3. Powerbuilder is faster in database performance than Delphi
>4. Delphi is difficult to learn, it's a Pascal like language and not like
>xBase at all, it's more a competitor for C++
>5. Foxpro is still the fastest database language I know on a PC, I love the
>use of SQL in it and it can read dBase and Clipper .dbf files (without the
>index files unfortunally)
>Both Delphi and Foxpro can build stand alone executables....
>Development time depends only on the programmer himself, all the modern
>languages have a form builder & report builder and all those thingies....

>Just try this in Clipper:

>select custname, invoiceno                      ;
>  from customer, invoice                                ;
> where invoice.deb_no = customer.deb_no ;
>  and invoice.date < date()-30                  ;
>  and not invoice.payed                         ;
> into table result

>This query can be optimized with indexes and can be run on 100.000+ record
>tables within a second !
>Delphi eat your hart out !

I don't know why you would say this.  Delphi can connect to any backend
database such as MS SQL server.  The backend database would perform the query
and only return a result  set would will not be as fast as VFP, but is still
very fast.
 
 
 

1. Using Visula Interdev 6.0 with SQL Server 6.5

I have been through the wringer on this and thought I'd share my
experiences. If your using Visual Interdev 6.0 to do database work on a SQL
6.5 server and you find that your queries are getting ODBC timout errors,
your stuck! I have hounded Microsoft over this and they insisited that it
had to be my server, well the database support mgr called me yesterday and
informed me they found the problem. The dialog that you can use to up the
query timeout setting, it does nothing, has no effect. Wait for a fix in
next SP......It drove me nuts for 2 months.........

--
John

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