Very Computer

by **David Sca** » Sat, 16 Nov 1996 04:00:00

I posted a query on CIS regarding the occasional network
lockups/hangups we have been getting in Paradox 5 on our 35-40 station
LAN with both Win 3.1 and Win95 users.

The response from Borland was hard to believe. They basically said
that the ONLY configurations that work without network problems are:
1) Win v3.1 and Paradox 5
2) Win95 and Paradox 7

The full text of the exchange:
=======================================================
From: Darryl Berard [Borland] 74431,313

Paradox 5.0 on a mixed Windows environment will cause the problem
you describe. The problem is in mixing Win 3.11 and Win 95 user

using Paradox for Windows. The only solution is either to upgrade
all system to Win95 and run Pdox 7.0 for Win95/NT or just run Win
3.11 and run Pdox 5.0 for Windows.

## Is all systems on Win95 and Paradox 5 acceptable ?

NO, it will still cause the problem.

## Paradox v7 seems to have too many bugs for me to recommend
## upgrading our users

Pdox 7.0 is a solid product w/our 4th patch installed, it was
pretty solid w/o it.
=======================================================

Needless to say, we will be looking to move all of our Paradox
applications to some other database platform. I cannot believe that if
this problem existed, that Borland has not made this public knowledge
or come up with a fix/workaround (did they and I just missed it ??)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This space intentionally left blank

by **Timo Herra** » Mon, 18 Nov 1996 04:00:00

Quote:
>I posted a query on CIS regarding the occasional network
>lockups/hangups we have been getting in Paradox 5 on our 35-40 station
>LAN with both Win 3.1 and Win95 users.

David,

Could you tell us, if there are some specific situations, where one could
expect these problems to appear. We are running this kind of mixed
environment, and I haven't bumped into any serious problems, but it may
well be that our Pdox use is so "simple" that it has saved us so far (hope not).

It would also be interesting to hear, what kind of network environment do you
have.

Cheers, Timo

by **Robyn Manc** » Tue, 19 Nov 1996 04:00:00

Quote:>I posted a query on CIS regarding the occasional network
>lockups/hangups we have been getting in Paradox 5 on our 35-40 station
>LAN with both Win 3.1 and Win95 users.

>The response from Borland was hard to believe. They basically said
>that the ONLY configurations that work without network problems are:
> 1) Win v3.1 and Paradox 5
> 2) Win95 and Paradox 7

That seems incredible and not very satisfactory to me either. I understood version
5 and version 7 were completely compatible. It becomes very expensive if all
workstations need to be upgraded as well as all software. If Borland can't produce
software which is compatible they should really be prepared to foot some of the
bill for upgrading the workstations.

However, the problems that you are describing are not altogether clear either.
Have you got the basic programme code loaded on each workstation so that
workstations can have either a version 5.0 or a version 7.0 compiled copy. I would
have thought that the tables would be okay on the server in their own right. All
you might need to do is ensure that each workstation has a version compatible with
their computer.

Robyn.

by **Sundial Servic** » Tue, 19 Nov 1996 04:00:00

>I posted a query on CIS regarding the occasional network
>lockups/hangups we have been getting in Paradox 5 on our 35-40 station
>LAN with both Win 3.1 and Win95 users.
>The response from Borland was hard to believe. They basically said
>that the ONLY configurations that work without network problems are:
> 1) Win v3.1 and Paradox 5
> 2) Win95 and Paradox 7
>The full text of the exchange:
>=======================================================
> From: Darryl Berard [Borland] 74431,313
> Paradox 5.0 on a mixed Windows environment will cause the problem
> you describe. The problem is in mixing Win 3.11 and Win 95 user
> using Paradox for Windows. The only solution is either to upgrade
> all system to Win95 and run Pdox 7.0 for Win95/NT or just run Win
> 3.11 and run Pdox 5.0 for Windows.
> ## Is all systems on Win95 and Paradox 5 acceptable ?
> NO, it will still cause the problem.
> ## Paradox v7 seems to have too many bugs for me to recommend
> ## upgrading our users
> Pdox 7.0 is a solid product w/our 4th patch installed, it was
> pretty solid w/o it.
>=======================================================
>Needless to say, we will be looking to move all of our Paradox
>applications to some other database platform. I cannot believe that if
>this problem existed, that Borland has not made this public knowledge
>or come up with a fix/workaround (did they and I just missed it ??)

Well, I am sure you will enjoy Microsoft Access! This database, which is sure
to exterminate any and all other contenders, neatly avoids the problem by
having Version-7 run only on Win95 and be totally incompatible with Version-2.
The conversion between the two runs only one way.

In all seriousness, David, there -are- known locking problems between WfWg and
Win95 networks and this alone can be a source of problems. I don't think that
MS is particularly motivated to provide a fix since they'll earn a lot more
money selling licenses to Win95.

:-/

/mr/

by **David Sca** » Tue, 19 Nov 1996 04:00:00

>>I posted a query on CIS regarding the occasional network
>>lockups/hangups we have been getting in Paradox 5 on our 35-40 station
>>LAN with both Win 3.1 and Win95 users.
>Could you tell us, if there are some specific situations, where one could
>expect these problems to appear. We are running this kind of mixed
>environment, and I haven't bumped into any serious problems, but it may
>well be that our Pdox use is so "simple" that it has saved us so far (hope not).
>It would also be interesting to hear, what kind of network environment do you
>have.

Well, I have been unable to narrow down anything specific. About every
2 weeks or so, getting into/out of Paradox gets extremely slow (the
physcial LAN drive where the Paradox "Network Directory" lives can be
DIRed with no slowdown) and then anyone getting into Paradox gets a
'Cannot initialize network directory' and anyone in Paradix that tries
to close a form gets a hard lockup.

Our LAN is IBM Warp Server, 16mb Token Ring, and a mixture of Win 3.1
and Win95 workstations. the LAN itself seems fine when Paradox locks
up, as I can access every network drive without a problem or slowdown.

See my post 'Help - Networked Paradox Occasionally hangs' for a little
more detailed info (but not much more).

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This space intentionally left blank

by **David Sca** » Tue, 19 Nov 1996 04:00:00

>Well, I am sure you will enjoy Microsoft Access! This database, which is sure
>to exterminate any and all other contenders, neatly avoids the problem by
>having Version-7 run only on Win95 and be totally incompatible with Version-2.
>The conversion between the two runs only one way.

I am unsure what we will be moving them to (Not Access I hope).

Quote:>In all seriousness, David, there -are- known locking problems between WfWg and
>Win95 networks and this alone can be a source of problems. I don't think that
>MS is particularly motivated to provide a fix since they'll earn a lot more
>money selling licenses to Win95.

I can understand that, but if Win 3.1 vs Win 95 were the source of the
problem, then an all Win95 network using Paradox 5 should not have the
problem, yet Borland tells me that that configuration will still
exhibit the lockups (that is why I asked them on that config
specifically !)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This space intentionally left blank

by **Sundial Servic** » Tue, 19 Nov 1996 04:00:00

>>Well, I am sure you will enjoy Microsoft Access! This database, which is sure
>>to exterminate any and all other contenders, neatly avoids the problem by
>>having Version-7 run only on Win95 and be totally incompatible with Version-2.
>>The conversion between the two runs only one way.
>I am unsure what we will be moving them to (Not Access I hope).
>>In all seriousness, David, there -are- known locking problems between WfWg and
>>Win95 networks and this alone can be a source of problems. I don't think that
>>MS is particularly motivated to provide a fix since they'll earn a lot more
>>money selling licenses to Win95.
>I can understand that, but if Win 3.1 vs Win 95 were the source of the
>problem, then an all Win95 network using Paradox 5 should not have the
>problem, yet Borland tells me that that configuration will still
>exhibit the lockups (that is why I asked them on that config
>specifically !)

The problem, as I understand it, is that when WfWg and Win95 communicate
regarding locks, the process does not always work... and that as a result many
systems are affected.

Microsoft's "solution" is, obviously, to upgrade the "offending" systems to
Win95 and to use Office95 software with it. ("Stop using that silly Paradox
thingie and use OUR stuff!")

/mr/

by **David Sca** » Tue, 19 Nov 1996 04:00:00

>>I can understand that, but if Win 3.1 vs Win 95 were the source of the
>>problem, then an all Win95 network using Paradox 5 should not have the
>>problem, yet Borland tells me that that configuration will still
>>exhibit the lockups (that is why I asked them on that config
>>specifically !)
>The problem, as I understand it, is that when WfWg and Win95 communicate
>regarding locks, the process does not always work... and that as a result many
>systems are affected.

If there are ONLY Win95 workstations, then I don't see how this
mis-communication concerning locks can fubar up Paradox.

But Borland says that even with ALL workstations running Win95 (ie no
Win 3.1 machines AT ALL) and Paradox 5 won't work !

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This space intentionally left blank

by **Tarik J. Ghbei** » Tue, 26 Nov 1996 04:00:00

>>I posted a query on CIS regarding the occasional network
>>lockups/hangups we have been getting in Paradox 5 on our 35-40 station
>>LAN with both Win 3.1 and Win95 users.

>>The response from Borland was hard to believe. They basically said
>>that the ONLY configurations that work without network problems are:
>> 1) Win v3.1 and Paradox 5
>> 2) Win95 and Paradox 7

>That seems incredible and not very satisfactory to me either. I understood version
>5 and version 7 were completely compatible. It becomes very expensive if all
>workstations need to be upgraded as well as all software. If Borland can't produce
>software which is compatible they should really be prepared to foot some of the
>bill for upgrading the workstations.
>However, the problems that you are describing are not altogether clear either.
>Have you got the basic programme code loaded on each workstation so that
>workstations can have either a version 5.0 or a version 7.0 compiled copy. I would
>have thought that the tables would be okay on the server in their own right. All
>you might need to do is ensure that each workstation has a version compatible with
>their computer.

It's very simple, really. Windows 95 and Windows 3.x do NOT provide
the same locking semantics. If you want to make Paradox 5 work better
on Windows 95, then you CAN disable the new locking semantics by going
into the Control Panel, System applet, Performance page, push the File
System button and go to the TroubleShooting page and disable the newer
locking semantics there. That should help.

Paradox 5 came out WELL before Windows 95; expecting it to work on
Windows 95 flawlessly is not realistic. Microsoft introduced a lot of
differences between the versions.

Also, Borland did provide a fix; it's called Paradox 7. Having worked
extensively with both, I would use Paradox 7 of 5 any day.

Tarik

by **Sundial Servic** » Tue, 26 Nov 1996 04:00:00

Quote:>It's very simple, really. Windows 95 and Windows 3.x do NOT provide
>the same locking semantics. If you want to make Paradox 5 work better
>on Windows 95, then you CAN disable the new locking semantics by going
>into the Control Panel, System applet, Performance page, push the File
>System button and go to the TroubleShooting page and disable the newer
>locking semantics there. That should help.
>Paradox 5 came out WELL before Windows 95; expecting it to work on
>Windows 95 flawlessly is not realistic. Microsoft introduced a lot of
>differences between the versions.
>Also, Borland did provide a fix; it's called Paradox 7. Having worked
>extensively with both, I would use Paradox 7 of 5 any day.

Okay... there you have it.

One thing that needs to be said over and over is that about the only thing
that Windows 3.1 and Windows95 have in common is the brand-name. One is a
16-bit, barely-multitasking, barely-networked system. The other is a 32-bit,
truly asynchronous, built-in-networked system. Where you are going to
encounter trouble when running 16-bit legacy code in the new environment is...
timing and locking, timing and locking, timing and locking.

/mr/

by **Andrew Benne** » Wed, 27 Nov 1996 04:00:00

>One thing that needs to be said over and over is that about the only thing
>that Windows 3.1 and Windows95 have in common is the brand-name. One is a
>16-bit, barely-multitasking, barely-networked system. The other is a 32-bit,
>truly asynchronous, built-in-networked system. Where you are going to
>encounter trouble when running 16-bit legacy code in the new environment is...
>timing and locking, timing and locking, timing and locking.

I wouldn't go that far, stating that they don't have much in common.
I'll have to make a reference to Andrew Schulman's book titled
_Unauthorized Windows 95_ (ISBN 1-56884-169-8 1994: IDG Books) and
point you to chapter 2. He states on page 53:

"By looking over files haphazardly thrown on the Chicago DDK, we learn
that Windows 95 isn't entirely rewritten from the ground up, but
rather is based on the Windows/386 3.0 project, which pecame Windows
3.0 Enhanced mode. And the VMM core of WIndows 95 made its first
appearance, under the name Virtual DOS Machine Manager (VDMM), in
WIndows/386 2.1..."

He goes on further, eventually stating that some of the file dates on
the DDK have dates in 1988. Kinda old.

For the record...

Andrew
--
Andrew Bennett

http://taz.hyperreal.com/~abennett/

Very Computer

Borland Admits Network Probs @ Paradox5 under Win95 !!!!

Borland Admits Network Probs @ Paradox5 under Win95 !!!!

Borland Admits Network Probs @ Paradox5 under Win95 !!!!

Borland Admits Network Probs @ Paradox5 under Win95 !!!!

Borland Admits Network Probs @ Paradox5 under Win95 !!!!

Borland Admits Network Probs @ Paradox5 under Win95 !!!!

Borland Admits Network Probs @ Paradox5 under Win95 !!!!

Borland Admits Network Probs @ Paradox5 under Win95 !!!!

Borland Admits Network Probs @ Paradox5 under Win95 !!!!

Borland Admits Network Probs @ Paradox5 under Win95 !!!!

Borland Admits Network Probs @ Paradox5 under Win95 !!!!

Borland Admits Network Probs @ Paradox5 under Win95 !!!!