Very Computer

Hello, sorry to trouble all of you, but I'm working for a company that
will not update to Windows. They are on DOS 6, and they need me to find a
databse for them. I can't find one at the stores, as everything is for
windows. Does anyone have any advice? Where can I find Paradox or FoxPro?
Is it even worth it?  

Quote:> Hello, sorry to trouble all of you, but I'm working for a company that
> will not update to Windows. They are on DOS 6, and they need me to find
> a databse for them. I can't find one at the stores, as everything is
> for windows. Does anyone have any advice? Where can I find Paradox or
> FoxPro?

If you want a resume' that marks you as unemployable go along with their
nonsense. As bad as Windows is, and it is bad, it is better than what
you are contemplating.

Quote:> Is it even worth it?

Daniel A. Morgan

Seriously, though, the time to "not update to Windows" is long since past.  
There are very few serious software development companies who are willing to
write their own memory-management, create their own printer-specific drivers,
and yada-yada-yada when 99% of their potential market now has Windows which
does all these things for them.

  Try to ignore the rude * D.Morgan who replied to your message
with nothing but a host of insults. You asked a question which he (and
others) apparently thought was a direct reflection of you personally.

 Regards J.Miles

The purpose of this group is to HELP users.  If a user HAS made an
informed choice to follow a path, then HELP if you can.

Quote:

>Basically, the point that I was trying to make is, "it's really time to
>switch."  Computers have become so inexpensive and so powerful now that DOS
>by-itself simply does not have the capabilities that can harness it.  It was
>never designed to be.

Quote:>One good compromise solution might be to install one WinNT or equivalent box,
>or Win95 Server, and place an SQL database such as InterBase (highly
>recommended) on that.  Then get to the database through Paradox SQL Links.  Or
>write a program in Turbo Pascal and use Database Engine.  This lets you create
>a database that is more powerful than DOS alone can host, while the clients
>continue to run DOS.

>However, consider all of your DOS-client work to be throwaway.  You are
>ultimately going to throw away the DOS program you just paid good money to
>write.  The replacement program, written for Windows using the tools now
>available (but not even contemplated or contemplatable during the DOS days),
>will cost two-thirds less and do three times as much.  I do not believe that I
>am exaggerating this.

Steve Urbach

Quote:

>You should, in all seriousness, be working very hard to get a change in your
>company.  What they are doing now is false economy, given present
>technological conditions.  They may have been astute to wait -- I agree that
>many people moved too soon -- but now that is no longer the case.  They are
>now being costly to continue to wait.  It is costing them _more money now to
>stay where they are, than to move.

Quote:

>>Basically, the point that I was trying to make is, "it's really time to
>>switch."  Computers have become so inexpensive and so powerful now that DOS
>>by-itself simply does not have the capabilities that can harness it.  It was
>>never designed to be.

>Very few EW drivers (if any) are needed to use PDOXDOS with
>printers... so why worry about that unless you are graphig from PDOX .

Furthermore, it runs DOS sessions just fine in a window.

The reality is that every single software designer on the planet has moved to
that.  And they have now moved beyond that to 32-bit operating systems with
built in networking -- and more.  With this arrangement, one or two companies
assume the responsibility of writing and debugging services that everyone else
can rely upon being-there.  The enormous advances in computer hardware, and
the enormous drops in the price thereof, really *have* changed the equation
against "holding out with pure DOS."

What I am saying is basically that it's an economic argument.  The goal of the
company is, as always, to spend money as wisely as they can.  The goal of the
companies who -produce- the software is exactly the same.

Quote:>>However, consider all of your DOS-client work to be throwaway.  You are
>>ultimately going to throw away the DOS program you just paid good money to
>>write.  The replacement program, written for Windows using the tools now
>>available (but not even contemplated or contemplatable during the DOS days),
>>will cost two-thirds less and do three times as much.  I do not believe that I
>>am exaggerating this.
>All work is throw away. Some is thrown awy sooner than later <g>.
>The choice is the CLIENTS, Not the developers in this respect.
>It is our obligatio to inform the CLIENT f any pitfalls of following
>the path requested, then do it s agreed.

Right now, when a client comes to us and says "we have Paradox for DOS and we
want ..."  What we tell them is, "I'm sorry, if you're willing to do it in
Paradox for Windows then we'll bid."  It is simply not cost-effective for us
to take on the work.  I'm serious.  I know that our bid is going to have to be
several times larger than the equivalent bid in PxWin and I know that this
approach is not in the customer's best interests.  I know that the bid could
turn into a millstone around our necks.  At this point in time and technology
it is simply not cost-effective to do new work in that environment.  I could
easily spend $1,500 in unrecoverable cost building the same foundation that I
can buy for $200 at Best Buy.  I can literally re-write the whole application
in Paradox for Windows for less money -- much less -- than I can attempt the
same work in DOS.

Consider this:  all of software is a construction.  It includes the operating
system, then the vendor-ware, then the custom-ware.  The higher up you go, the
more expensive the end result becomes.  But all the user cares about IS the
end result.  The more vendor-ware you can use, the more sophisticated it can
be, the less the project ultimately costs.  The economics work this way
because vendors can disperse the cost across tens of thousands of units.  You
have to encapsulate the cost (real or funny) of the custom-ware into just one
unit.

The Windows layer of software, which is "canned" and universal, provides very
significant added functionality on top of DOS that otherwise has to be
duplicated.  There is simply no economic justification left now for leaving it
out.

Enough said.  I don't mean to preach on a soapbox.  I didn't jump in to preach.

/mr/

says...

Quote:> > Hello, sorry to trouble all of you, but I'm working for a company that
> > will not update to Windows. They are on DOS 6, and they need me to find
> > a databse for them. I can't find one at the stores, as everything is
> > for windows. Does anyone have any advice? Where can I find Paradox or
> > FoxPro?

Quote:> If your management want to throw money away tell them to either find a
> good not-for-profit charity or to just take it out in the parking lot
> and throw it in the dumpster.

But Dan is right, you can't buy a database for DOS now except in swap
meets and used software stores. I know how to do PDOXDOS but I'm
primarily a PDOXWIN guy. Spending money on a DOS-based database now does
not sound like a viable strategy.

Quote:> If you want a resume' that marks you as unemployable go along with their
> nonsense. As bad as Windows is, and it is bad, it is better than what
> you are contemplating.

Besides, engineers are suppose to come up with solutions with what is
available. It may not be cost-effective or elegant, but it is a
solution.  :-)

My suggestion: go use some of those old character-based dBase-clones you
can find for practically free in the archives like ftp.cdrom.com or such
places. I seriously doubt they need a full-fledged database like Paradox
or FoxPro.

for dos use Advanced Revelation, available from Revelation Technology. a
web search will find them
mick

I hope that my own post was not perceived in this light by you or Falcor22.

Basically, the point that I was trying to make is, "it's really time to
switch."  Computers have become so inexpensive and so powerful now that DOS
by-itself simply does not have the capabilities that can harness it.  It was
never designed to be.

One good compromise solution might be to install one WinNT or equivalent box,
or Win95 Server, and place an SQL database such as InterBase (highly
recommended) on that.  Then get to the database through Paradox SQL Links.  Or
write a program in Turbo Pascal and use Database Engine.  This lets you create
a database that is more powerful than DOS alone can host, while the clients
continue to run DOS.

However, consider all of your DOS-client work to be throwaway.  You are
ultimately going to throw away the DOS program you just paid good money to
write.  The replacement program, written for Windows using the tools now
available (but not even contemplated or contemplatable during the DOS days),
will cost two-thirds less and do three times as much.  I do not believe that I
am exaggerating this.

You should, in all seriousness, be working very hard to get a change in your
company.  What they are doing now is false economy, given present
technological conditions.  They may have been astute to wait -- I agree that
many people moved too soon -- but now that is no longer the case.  They are
now being costly to continue to wait.  It is costing them _more money now to
stay where they are, than to move.

The version to be found for almost nothing is Paradox 5.0 for Windows,
sold with CD magazines around 5 US$. Nothing such with Paradox for DOS.
-------------------------
   Frederic G. MARAND
  Agorus SA / OSI SARL

 http://www.chez.com/osi

the internet shows that it does work
mick