Paradox Form Limitations

Paradox Form Limitations

Post by K+ » Sun, 29 Jun 2003 01:39:15



Hi,

Do any of you know whether Paradox 10 forms have the capacity to host more
objects than Paradox 7_32 forms?

I support a stable application built 5 years ago using a combination of
Paradox7_32, Delphi 3, and C++.  It is a tool for manual recording of
complex geological data using ruggedised pen tablet computers.  The main
data entry screen is a Paradox form hosting several toolbars, a multipage
notebook containing several hundred data-producing objects (buttons, fields,
table frame arrays, etc) and a C++ graphical workspace that allows the user
to draw an object and attach property-value data trees to that object using
objects on various pages of the notebook.  The system contains many dialogue
boxes triggered by specific user input on the main form, but the users hate
these because they interrupt an otherwise smooth workflow, and slow
productivity significantly.  These guys work long hours standing outdoors
year-round in temperatures ranging from freezing to 45 degrees Celsius, so
they want the interface as flat as possible to enable them to get the data
into the machine faster.  They'd prefer to flatten ALL the functionality
onto one monster form.  Consequently, the object count on the main form has
grown progressively and almost all ObjectPAL code has been placed in
libraries.  Unfortunately, if we add any more objects to the main form it
becomes unstable (does crazy things in design mode and won't compile).  So,
I'd be very grateful to learn whether any of the long-term Paradox
developers among you have bumped into this kind of problem before and know
whether Paradox 10 forms have greater capacity than Paradox 7 forms (not the
sort of info one can find in a 'features' list).  Replacing the Paradox
forms with Delphi equivalents is probably the answer, but that's a major
development task.  I'm just trying to find ways of streamlining the workflow
without rebuilding an otherwise satisfactory system.

Thanks,

Ken

 
 
 

Paradox Form Limitations

Post by Dennis Santor » Sun, 29 Jun 2003 02:34:43


I don't know if P10 can do better than p7. I've never bumped up against an
object limit in P7. But a cheap experiment (compared to redevelopment) would be
to buy a copy of P10 (get an upgrade price), install, copy the FSL, resave the
copy in 10 and then redeliver in 10 and see if you can run it. If so, then try
adding or modifying the now P10 fsl and see what happens.

Denn Santoro
President
Resource Development Associates
http://www.RDAWorldWide.Com
Offices in the United States and Germany
Providing solutions to health care, business, governments and non-profits since
1982

 
 
 

Paradox Form Limitations

Post by Tony McGuir » Sun, 29 Jun 2003 02:35:36


I think Corel has a '30 day trial' version.  They used to, at least.

Course, their site kinda got 'broke' when they revamped after release
wp2003.

--
--
Tony

"I woke up and was able to get myself out of bed.
Being that fortunate, what's to complain about?"
_____________

 
 
 

Paradox Form Limitations

Post by K+ » Sun, 29 Jun 2003 12:56:02


Thanks for your suggestions Dennis & Tony,

Unfortunately the Corel WP Office trial download doesn't include Paradox 10.
The Support section of the Corel web site gives the impression I'll need to
upgrade to a Corel version of Paradox and register it before I can pester
them about this issue, and no doubt they'll recommend upgrading anyway.  I
bought an upgrade copy of Paradox 8 soon after Corel released it, but threw
it away in dispair after the P7 programmers couldn't find a bunch of
essential methods and what-nots to make things work in the new version.

As an occasional visitor to this newsgroup I've spotted a few comments that
have caused me to hesitate when considering looking at P10 eg "develop in P9
wherever possible".   I also recall a pithy comment by (?)Tony that ran
something like "if you develop an application in Paradox be prepared to
support it forever".  In my case this applies to the project
instigator/designer/manager now that the software has been stable for
several years and the developers have moved on.  So, not being a Paradox
developer myself, and being severely under-employed in my profession
(geology), I was hoping someone might have struck this problem before and I
could avoid buying the whole WP Office Suite Pro Edition just on the
off-chance it might provide a way forward.  I guess I need to check whether
the users are willing to support a "suck it and see" approach, get P10, and
start stacking extra objects on the form as Dennis suggests.  Hopefully P10
is still recognisable to a part-time P7 user.

Thanks again,

Ken

 
 
 

Paradox Form Limitations

Post by Liz » Mon, 30 Jun 2003 00:34:39


Ken,

You're right, the new download doesn't appear to have P11 in it
(though it could just be hidden - did you do a custom install?).

That copy of P8 you chucked had everything you needed, it's just that
no one went to settings > developer preferences and set the ObjectPAL
level to advanced and turn on developer menus.  (Sorry you had to find
out too late.)

I would think P10 would be better than P7-16 for what you need, but
I'm not sure whether it'd be better than P7-32.  I would think the OS
might make a difference (use 2K, IMO).

Finally, have you considered faking the 1-form look?  make all those
notetabs empty, make several forms with no borders, open them all when
the main one opens, but all are hidden except the one which represents
the default tab.  Positioning relative to the tab and hiding/showing
should be fairly simple....

Each individual form should run better at that point, I would think.
And done right, the users really wouldn't be able to tell.

Liz


> Thanks for your suggestions Dennis & Tony,

> Unfortunately the Corel WP Office trial download doesn't include Paradox 10.
> The Support section of the Corel web site gives the impression I'll need to
> upgrade to a Corel version of Paradox and register it before I can pester
> them about this issue, and no doubt they'll recommend upgrading anyway.  I
> bought an upgrade copy of Paradox 8 soon after Corel released it, but threw
> it away in dispair after the P7 programmers couldn't find a bunch of
> essential methods and what-nots to make things work in the new version.

> As an occasional visitor to this newsgroup I've spotted a few comments that
> have caused me to hesitate when considering looking at P10 eg "develop in P9
> wherever possible".   I also recall a pithy comment by (?)Tony that ran
> something like "if you develop an application in Paradox be prepared to
> support it forever".  In my case this applies to the project
> instigator/designer/manager now that the software has been stable for
> several years and the developers have moved on.  So, not being a Paradox
> developer myself, and being severely under-employed in my profession
> (geology), I was hoping someone might have struck this problem before and I
> could avoid buying the whole WP Office Suite Pro Edition just on the
> off-chance it might provide a way forward.  I guess I need to check whether
> the users are willing to support a "suck it and see" approach, get P10, and
> start stacking extra objects on the form as Dennis suggests.  Hopefully P10
> is still recognisable to a part-time P7 user.

> Thanks again,

> Ken

 
 
 

Paradox Form Limitations

Post by Veronica Loel » Mon, 30 Jun 2003 01:27:40



> Hi,

[...]
> into the machine faster.  They'd prefer to flatten ALL the functionality
> onto one monster form.  Consequently, the object count on the main form has

[...]

I think that you would be better off with a different approach (like
what Liz suggested), first off you can control windows quite well in
paradox (I use 9 at the moment but it should not matter).

Instead of having 1 form and consequently 1 window, you could have
several windows with no frames "glued" together by positioning the
windows. I work exclusivle with dialog (non-modal) windows at the moment
and I also hide the main application-window. This gives you sort of a
puzzle-box quality.

Think like html-frames, and do dialog-style-windows that you position
the way you want to. As it sounds it would not be a problem to keep your
application in a constant place on the screen? Then you can prevent the
users from moving any of the windows and hence get a 1 form-look, using
as many forms as you like and need. I'll be happy to explain more if you
are interested. I went from P5 to P8 so can't say for sure about the
windowing stuff in P7 (or in 5 and 8 as I have only started using this
approach since I have run with P9), but I would think the main
functionality is the same.

- Veronica

 
 
 

Paradox Form Limitations

Post by K+ » Tue, 01 Jul 2003 01:36:26


Quote:> I think that you would be better off with a different approach (like
> what Liz suggested), first off you can control windows quite well in
> paradox (I use 9 at the moment but it should not matter).

> Instead of having 1 form and consequently 1 window, you could have
> several windows with no frames "glued" together by positioning the
> windows.

Thanks Liz & Veronica - your thoughts "outside the square" are certainly
worth a try.  It might be tricky because there's a lot of interaction betwen
objects on the notepad and objects elsewhere on the form.  The main form is
permanently maximized, so anchoring other forms should be straightforward..
I have to go "bush" for a week or so tomorrow so it may be a fortnight
before I can report back on the outcome.

Re P8 ...ouch (rummage, rummage!).

I'm currently in the process of moving from Win98 to Win2K now that machines
with pen drivers are available, but I still experience a few problems with
display of some objects despite setting application compatibility tool to
NT4, tweaking video display settings, etc.  I may be back to pester the cdp
group about that after I've had a chance to wrestled with it a bit more.

Cheers,

Ken

 
 
 

Paradox Form Limitations

Post by Veronica Loel » Tue, 01 Jul 2003 14:38:11



> worth a try.  It might be tricky because there's a lot of interaction betwen
> objects on the notepad and objects elsewhere on the form.  The main form is

Communication between objects on different forms are not that much
different from between objects on the same form, you just have to add
the form-identifier to the path, keeping Form-variables attached to
your forms etc.

- Veronica

 
 
 

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