Very Computer

Anyone have any feedback regarding Oracle Web Application Server for use in
mission critical
areas? Is it reliable? How is the design in general? What are the
alternatives (application web servers) if you
feel Oracle Web Application Server is a bad choice?

I've been part of two projects using it from 1997 to today. One with version
3.0.2 (+ 10 patches) for a user base of about 5000. One with version 4.0.8.1
(+ 3 patches) for a user base of about 150. I believe the CNN.COM and other
large consumer-oriented sites are based on OAS. We mainly used it because
Oracle was one of the first vendors out there with an application server; we
were trying to keep our number of vendors down; and we had PL/SQL talent (to
use the PL/SQL cartridge) but not Java, CGI, Perl, etc.

Now that I'm experienced with it and much wiser I'd hesitate. My life with
Oracle products seems to be waiting for the next patch. I guess it's because
I'm always needing later features they've introduced that usually don't have
all the kinks worked out. Luckily I always got my patches just in the nick
of time, but had their support not been so quick...of course it would be
even better if they had a full quality assurance and regression test
methodology in place.

I just haven't used the competing app servers in anything other than play
mode, so I can't say whether the competition is any better when it comes to
bug-free. If you use it, go straight to 4.0.8.1 on NT (SP5 40-bit or Solaris
2.7) I think 4.0.9 is expected in March (but then again 4.0.8 was expected
in April '99 and finally released in October). If you've got the talent,
develop your dynamic site with Java servlets.

By the way I find one thing really aggravating about it. It has, and has had
for some time, all these nifty distributed and fault-tolerant features
allowing you to modularly install pieces of it on different nodes, have
multiple instances of the same piece for load balancing, built-in connection
pooling and other awesome features. But for some odd reason they can't
figure out how to have an OAS instance receiving  requests from any
webserver other than one installed on the same box as OAS! Our company
standard webserver is IIS. So when I migrated OAS from NT to Solaris
recently, I shot myself in the foot since now I am _forced_ to use the
built-in Spyglass webserver that comes with OAS on Solaris. MS doesn't make
IIS for Solaris as far as I know and never will. Ridiculous! In this world
of distributed computing, why can't a webserver at IP address A, port B sent
a RPC or TCP/IP message to OAS at IP address C, port D?

Anyway, we recently had Sun/Netscape come demo their stuff. Rock solid,
particularly suited for high-volume web sites.

We have Silverstream coming to demo their newest app server tomorrow. After
that I'm looking at WebLogic and WebSphere before I make a final decision.

Best of luck,
- bill c.

Quote:> Anyone have any feedback regarding Oracle Web Application Server for use
in
> mission critical
> areas? Is it reliable? How is the design in general? What are the
> alternatives (application web servers) if you
> feel Oracle Web Application Server is a bad choice?

Hi bill

Quote:> I've been part of two projects using it from 1997 to today. One with
> version
> 3.0.2 (+ 10 patches) for a user base of about 5000. One with version
< 4.0.8.1
> (+ 3 patches) for a user base of about 150. I believe the CNN.COM and
> other
> large consumer-oriented sites are based on OAS. We mainly used it
> because
> Oracle was one of the first vendors out there with an application
> server; we
> were trying to keep our number of vendors down; and we had PL/SQL
> talent (to
> use the PL/SQL cartridge) but not Java, CGI, Perl, etc.

skip

Quote:> I just haven't used the competing app servers in anything other than
> play
> mode, so I can't say whether the competition is any better when it
> comes to
> bug-free. If you use it, go straight to 4.0.8.1 on NT (SP5 40-bit or
> Solaris
> 2.7) I think 4.0.9 is expected in March (but then again 4.0.8 was
> expected
> in April '99 and finally released in October). If you've got the
> talent,
> develop your dynamic site with Java servlets.

That's what I feel, too. But I am lacking a little bit the _hard_
arguments. What makes you so sure (there are only few web-sites with
servelts at the moment, I think)?

skip

Quote:> But for some odd reason they can't
> figure out how to have an OAS instance receiving  requests from any
> webserver other than one installed on the same box as OAS! Our company
> standard webserver is IIS. So when I migrated OAS from NT to Solaris
> recently, I shot myself in the foot since now I am _forced_ to use the
> built-in Spyglass webserver that comes with OAS on Solaris.

Is spyglass unusable (for certain taskt, perhaps) ?

Thank you
Pascal Glauser

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

Quote:>> in April '99 and finally released in October). If you've got the
> > talent,
> > develop your dynamic site with Java servlets.

> That's what I feel, too. But I am lacking a little bit the _hard_
> arguments. What makes you so sure (there are only few web-sites with
> servelts at the moment, I think)?

Well, I (and some teammates) developed a 20,000 line PL/SQL framework that I
used on both projects (again due to the PL/SQL talent and lack of Perl, Java
talent). This was very modular and nice for wrapping company standards.
Everything was laid out neat as a pin for the developers. But even with all
the work that went into it in order to cut down development, it still took
hours to create simple web windows with fields, textareas, buttons with
JavaScript behind them, and the presentation/business/data-layer PL/SQL
procedures behind each to handle the user's actions. Compared to what I've
seen recently (Cold-Fusion, Tango, Forte, PHP, JSP, servlets, etc.) it is
archaic and very difficult to use. I watched a complex HTML window with a
tabbed interface, tons of fields, drop-downs, JavaScript, plus all the back
end code for adding next, previous, start, end, find, update, and other
features for some database records the window was tied to -- created in no
less than 5 minutes. I was stunned. It was a visual servlet programming IDE
in SilverStream 3.0. We own JDeveloper 3.0 and it has servlet wizards as
well. Just this week I decided to let go of my pride and joy (my PL/SQL web
framework). I'm tossing "my baby" out. If had the time to develop my own
PL/SQL-web IDE which wrapped this framework, I'd do it. But I don't so I'm
converting to something else. As far as hard arguments or evidence for
servlets, email Jason Hunter. I think his address can be found at
www.servlets.com/org?. Obviously he's a proponent of the technology, but he
could give you examples and the hard arguments. Seems some shops have even
"graduated" beyond servlets to JSP, XML and XLMC (plus many other variants
of elegant template-like development environments).

Quote:> > But for some odd reason they can't
> > figure out how to have an OAS instance receiving  requests from any
> > webserver other than one installed on the same box as OAS! Our company
> > standard webserver is IIS. So when I migrated OAS from NT to Solaris
> > recently, I shot myself in the foot since now I am _forced_ to use the
> > built-in Spyglass webserver that comes with OAS on Solaris.

> Is spyglass unusable (for certain taskt, perhaps) ?

No, spyglass has been fine. We must implement SSL on it soon, so I'll get
back to you if that works. But in one of my previous projects, the client's
enterprise architecture dictated that Netscape Enterprise be used. In my
current environment, the IT admins want to stay with IIS and are even toying
with IIS 5. So to tell them that I have to introduce a new webserver in the
mix is not pleasing to their ears.

- bill