Ok let me ask that again - maybe someone intelligent will answer this time

Ok let me ask that again - maybe someone intelligent will answer this time

Post by evonbar » Fri, 26 Apr 2002 11:26:36



Hi,

I need information and feedback on the different aspects of implimenting a
web
based application with an existing oracle database server.  If I
wanted to write my front end in ASP as opposed to Cold Fusion, is the
following feasible?

-  Use an NT server with IIS and connect to a Unix Oracle server?
-  Create DSNs from my ASP application to my Oracle servers
-  Convert my Unix Oracle data to Windows NT Oracle.

What are the benefits to leaving my database in Oracle as opposed to
migrating it to Microsoft SQL Server (besides the simple fact that you
all loathe Microsoft).  I realize Oracle is seriously powerful and
since my company has been heading in that direction for some time, I
would like to keep the advantage of all the Oracle knowledge we have.

I'm just hoping someone will write and tell me that I can set up a
connection to my Unix Oracle servers through ODBC (or something
similar) with as much ease as I can with my MS-SQL servers.  This
would be HUGE cost savings and prove that Oracle can co-exist with
whatever platform we will use in the future.  We're trying to push to
keep Oracle as a primary tool and any information you can provide
would be appreciated very much.

Thanks
Erik

 
 
 

Ok let me ask that again - maybe someone intelligent will answer this time

Post by Sybrand Bakke » Fri, 26 Apr 2002 13:54:15




Quote:>Hi,

>I need information and feedback on the different aspects of implimenting a
>web
>based application with an existing oracle database server.  If I
>wanted to write my front end in ASP as opposed to Cold Fusion, is the
>following feasible?

>-  Use an NT server with IIS and connect to a Unix Oracle server?
>-  Create DSNs from my ASP application to my Oracle servers
>-  Convert my Unix Oracle data to Windows NT Oracle.

>What are the benefits to leaving my database in Oracle as opposed to
>migrating it to Microsoft SQL Server (besides the simple fact that you
>all loathe Microsoft).  I realize Oracle is seriously powerful and
>since my company has been heading in that direction for some time, I
>would like to keep the advantage of all the Oracle knowledge we have.

>I'm just hoping someone will write and tell me that I can set up a
>connection to my Unix Oracle servers through ODBC (or something
>similar) with as much ease as I can with my MS-SQL servers.  This
>would be HUGE cost savings and prove that Oracle can co-exist with
>whatever platform we will use in the future.  We're trying to push to
>keep Oracle as a primary tool and any information you can provide
>would be appreciated very much.

>Thanks
>Erik

The benefits of leaving your data in Oracle are you can migrate your
database to a *scalable* O/S. Microsoft O/Ses will probably *never* be
as scalable as Unix.

Quote:>I'm just hoping someone will write and tell me that I can set up a
>connection to my Unix Oracle servers through ODBC (or something
>similar) with as much ease as I can with my MS-SQL servers.

Of course. Hey, this is Oracle! Oracle is *fully* compatible across
all platforms. You wouldn't be advised to avoid using ODBC though,
ODBC is just a slow can of worms, as it is a *generic* layer.
If you don't use any other database software, you would best use
native Oracle drivers.

Hth

Sybrand Bakker, Senior Oracle DBA

To reply remove -verwijderdit from my e-mail address

 
 
 

Ok let me ask that again - maybe someone intelligent will answer this time

Post by Dusan Bol » Fri, 26 Apr 2002 15:58:59



> -  Use an NT server with IIS and connect to a Unix Oracle server?

Yes, you can use ODBC.

Quote:> -  Create DSNs from my ASP application to my Oracle servers

Yes, we're using this technology. In ASP you have two ways (probably
more), you can connect to database using ODBC or Oracle Objects.

Quote:> -  Convert my Unix Oracle data to Windows NT Oracle.

If you mean export from Oracle on Unix to Oracle on NTs, then without
problem. However maybe is better to leave you database on Unix, there
are no differences (from client perspective) in accessing both of
these platforms.

Quote:> What are the benefits to leaving my database in Oracle as opposed to
> migrating it to Microsoft SQL Server (besides the simple fact that you
> all loathe Microsoft).  I realize Oracle is seriously powerful and
> since my company has been heading in that direction for some time, I
> would like to keep the advantage of all the Oracle knowledge we have.

Sorry, but I do not want to start another useless flame about what
RDBMS is the best. I've worked with MS SQL and with Oracle and I think
that with Oracle in terms of stability, scalability and overall
performance, you will get a better tool.

Quote:> I'm just hoping someone will write and tell me that I can set up a
> connection to my Unix Oracle servers through ODBC (or something
> similar) with as much ease as I can with my MS-SQL servers.  This
> would be HUGE cost savings and prove that Oracle can co-exist with
> whatever platform we will use in the future.  

As I already said, just install Oracle drivers on that computer, and
also Oracle Objects or ODBC drivers and after few minutes, you would
have a complete connectivity to you Oracle server, of course only if
your network is working.

--
_________________________________________

Dusan Bolek, Ing.
Oracle team leader


can call it an overture to bankruptcy) on that server. I'm still using
this email to prevent SPAM. Maybe one day I will change it and have a
proper mail even for news, but right now I can be reached by this
email.

 
 
 

Ok let me ask that again - maybe someone intelligent will answer this time

Post by Adrian Carlson-Hedge » Fri, 26 Apr 2002 16:07:15



Quote:> Hi,

> I need information and feedback on the different aspects of implimenting a
> web
> based application with an existing oracle database server.  If I
> wanted to write my front end in ASP as opposed to Cold Fusion, is the
> following feasible?

> -  Use an NT server with IIS and connect to a Unix Oracle server?

Easy.

Quote:> -  Create DSNs from my ASP application to my Oracle servers

Easy. You may have to install the oracle client software on your web-server
though.

Quote:> -  Convert my Unix Oracle data to Windows NT Oracle.

Convert??? You can get the data out of your Oracle database how you like.
The OS that it happens to be running on is largely irrelevant. Generally to
the client of an Oracle database you do not need to know what OS the server
is running on.

Quote:

> What are the benefits to leaving my database in Oracle as opposed to
> migrating it to Microsoft SQL Server (besides the simple fact that you
> all loathe Microsoft).  I realize Oracle is seriously powerful and
> since my company has been heading in that direction for some time, I
> would like to keep the advantage of all the Oracle knowledge we have.

> I'm just hoping someone will write and tell me that I can set up a
> connection to my Unix Oracle servers through ODBC (or something
> similar) with as much ease as I can with my MS-SQL servers.  This
> would be HUGE cost savings and prove that Oracle can co-exist with
> whatever platform we will use in the future.  We're trying to push to
> keep Oracle as a primary tool and any information you can provide
> would be appreciated very much.

If you wanted to connect to a SQL server through ODBC what would you do?
You'd create an ODBC data source right? Well it's the same for Oracle, or
Sybase, or DB2, etc etc.
 
 
 

Ok let me ask that again - maybe someone intelligent will answer this time

Post by dav.. » Fri, 26 Apr 2002 16:33:01



> -  Create DSNs from my ASP application to my Oracle servers

DSN can't be created from ASP, you have to use a DSN-less connection
or create the DSN by hand.

Quote:> What are the benefits to leaving my database in Oracle as opposed to
> migrating it to Microsoft SQL Server

When your Transaction Log will explode (note: 'when', not 'if') you'll know.

Quote:> connection to my Unix Oracle servers through ODBC (or something

Use the Microsoft ODBC driver, not the one distributed by Oracle, the
MS one is much faster.

Davide

 
 
 

Ok let me ask that again - maybe someone intelligent will answer this time

Post by Nuno Sout » Fri, 26 Apr 2002 16:43:26



quote):

Quote:

> -  Use an NT server with IIS and connect to a Unix Oracle server?

Yes, without the slightest worry.

Quote:> -  Create DSNs from my ASP application to my Oracle servers

Yes, without the slightest worry.

Quote:> -  Convert my Unix Oracle data to Windows NT Oracle.

No conversion needed.

Quote:> What are the benefits to leaving my database in Oracle as opposed to
> migrating it to Microsoft SQL Server (besides the simple fact that you
> all loathe Microsoft).  I realize Oracle is seriously powerful and
> since my company has been heading in that direction for some time, I
> would like to keep the advantage of all the Oracle knowledge we have.

You just answered your own question.  That would be the strongest
possible argument for leaving the data in Oracle.

Quote:> I'm just hoping someone will write and tell me that I can set up a
> connection to my Unix Oracle servers through ODBC (or something
> similar) with as much ease as I can with my MS-SQL servers.  This

Or even easier.  A month ago a company installing some software in a
client of mine asked me the same question.  Took me 5 minutes to install
Oracle client on their NT app server and get an ODBC connection running
to the HP Unix servers.  They didn't believe it could be that easy.  Poor
sods.

Quote:> would be HUGE cost savings and prove that Oracle can co-exist with
> whatever platform we will use in the future.  We're trying to push to
> keep Oracle as a primary tool and any information you can provide
> would be appreciated very much.

I can hardly think of a better reason to keep Oracle.  Being platform
independent, it will ALWAYS be a better solution in the long term than
ANY proprietary solution out there.

--
Cheers
Nuno Souto

 
 
 

Ok let me ask that again - maybe someone intelligent will answer this time

Post by Niall Litchfiel » Fri, 26 Apr 2002 17:14:47




> > -  Create DSNs from my ASP application to my Oracle servers

> DSN can't be created from ASP, you have to use a DSN-less connection
> or create the DSN by hand.

> > What are the benefits to leaving my database in Oracle as opposed to
> > migrating it to Microsoft SQL Server

> When your Transaction Log will explode (note: 'when', not 'if') you'll
know.

> > connection to my Unix Oracle servers through ODBC (or something

> Use the Microsoft ODBC driver, not the one distributed by Oracle, the
> MS one is much faster.

Not so sure this is still true and the ms driver is definitely less
functional. Personally I'd advise reading up on and implementing oo4o or
failing that ADO/OLEDB.

--
Niall Litchfield
Oracle DBA
Audit Commission UK
*****************************************
Please include version and platform
and SQL where applicable
It makes life easier and increases the
likelihood of a good answer

******************************************

 
 
 

Ok let me ask that again - maybe someone intelligent will answer this time

Post by Mark D Powe » Fri, 26 Apr 2002 21:51:29




> > -  Use an NT server with IIS and connect to a Unix Oracle server?

> Yes, you can use ODBC.

> > -  Create DSNs from my ASP application to my Oracle servers

> Yes, we're using this technology. In ASP you have two ways (probably
> more), you can connect to database using ODBC or Oracle Objects.

> > -  Convert my Unix Oracle data to Windows NT Oracle.

> If you mean export from Oracle on Unix to Oracle on NTs, then without
> problem. However maybe is better to leave you database on Unix, there
> are no differences (from client perspective) in accessing both of
> these platforms.

> > What are the benefits to leaving my database in Oracle as opposed to
> > migrating it to Microsoft SQL Server (besides the simple fact that you
> > all loathe Microsoft).  I realize Oracle is seriously powerful and
> > since my company has been heading in that direction for some time, I
> > would like to keep the advantage of all the Oracle knowledge we have.

> Sorry, but I do not want to start another useless flame about what
> RDBMS is the best. I've worked with MS SQL and with Oracle and I think
> that with Oracle in terms of stability, scalability and overall
> performance, you will get a better tool.

> > I'm just hoping someone will write and tell me that I can set up a
> > connection to my Unix Oracle servers through ODBC (or something
> > similar) with as much ease as I can with my MS-SQL servers.  This
> > would be HUGE cost savings and prove that Oracle can co-exist with
> > whatever platform we will use in the future.  

> As I already said, just install Oracle drivers on that computer, and
> also Oracle Objects or ODBC drivers and after few minutes, you would
> have a complete connectivity to you Oracle server, of course only if
> your network is working.

> --
> _________________________________________

> Dusan Bolek, Ing.
> Oracle team leader


> can call it an overture to bankruptcy) on that server. I'm still using
> this email to prevent SPAM. Maybe one day I will change it and have a
> proper mail even for news, but right now I can be reached by this
> email.

In regards to >>
I'm just hoping someone will write and tell me that I can set up a
connection to my Unix Oracle servers through ODBC (or something
similar) with as much ease as I can with my MS-SQL servers.  This
would be HUGE cost savings and prove that Oracle can co-exist with
whatever platform we will use in the future.  <<

We have Oracle on UNIX and have applications that access it from PC
using ODBC and SQLNET, NT based web servers, VMS application servers
(pro*c programs), and UNIX application servers.  As long as you
install the Oracle client or make use of the java thin client you can
reach an Oracle db anywhere on your network (allowing for firewalls
locations and settings).

HTH -- Mark D Powell --

 
 
 

Ok let me ask that again - maybe someone intelligent will answer this time

Post by Norman Dunba » Fri, 26 Apr 2002 23:49:21


-----Original Message-----


>> Use the Microsoft ODBC driver, not the one distributed by Oracle, the
>> MS one is much faster.

Umm - open up the ODBC adminstrator thingy.
Select the Oracle supplied ODBC connection.
Click CONFIGURE and set the PreFetch Count to something very much higher
than one.

If I'm not mistaken, the default is one and this causes one fetch per
row returned from the database. If you up it to something more suitable,
say 300  then you get (almost) 300 rows returned per fetch. This makes
it a lot faster. The problem is that this 300 applies to every table
fetched from using that ODBC connection, so may cause memory problems on
the client if it is too high and/or the rows are very large.

The M$ driver doesn't have a PreFetch Count, however, it defaults to
using a buffer which is 32KB in size and this is where it puts as many
rows as it can per fetch into. Regardless of the row size, there is only
ever 32KB fetched (by default) so there are less chances for the memory
problems mentioned above.

I know this because I spent some time recently testing both ODBC drivers
to sort out a problem I was having in using the SQL_ATTR_ROW_ARRAY_SIZE
(or something like that) attribute in a program. The Oracle driver was
not returning an error, nor was it setting the array size to the
requested value.

This is happening in the latest 817 ODBC driver and has been found to be
a bug :o)

Cheers,
Norman.

PS. I've missed a lot over the last few days, we had a new firewall
installed, and News was no longer working :o(

 
 
 

Ok let me ask that again - maybe someone intelligent will answer this time

Post by evonba » Sat, 27 Apr 2002 02:45:13


Ok, sorry for the mistype, I didn't actually mean create the DSN with
ASP, but use a DSN in ASP to connect to my UNIX boxes.  We use large
Mini systems (sequent and siemens) for our current data storage and if
we were to build a front end with ASP, then is it possible to connect
to them as easy as if I were to set up a DSN for a windowsNT database.
 I only have experience on the NT side and want to give accurate
information to the decision making people I work with.

Thanks for the information.
Does anyone have any URLs for resources on the web where I can
research more on Oracle?



> > -  Create DSNs from my ASP application to my Oracle servers

> DSN can't be created from ASP, you have to use a DSN-less connection
> or create the DSN by hand.

> > What are the benefits to leaving my database in Oracle as opposed to
> > migrating it to Microsoft SQL Server

> When your Transaction Log will explode (note: 'when', not 'if') you'll know.

> > connection to my Unix Oracle servers through ODBC (or something

> Use the Microsoft ODBC driver, not the one distributed by Oracle, the
> MS one is much faster.

> Davide

 
 
 

Ok let me ask that again - maybe someone intelligent will answer this time

Post by Niall Litchfiel » Sat, 27 Apr 2002 04:59:45



Quote:> PS. I've missed a lot over the last few days, we had a new firewall
> installed, and News was no longer working :o(

welcome back. Check out the threads on 9idb security hole and seperate
data/inidex (no really; no-one corrected that typo)  good stuff. Plus dross
from me obviously.

--
Niall Litchfield
Oracle DBA
Audit Commission UK

 
 
 

Ok let me ask that again - maybe someone intelligent will answer this time

Post by Norman Dunba » Sat, 27 Apr 2002 17:33:03


Morning Niall,

I'm glad to be back - it was like having your right hand cut off not
having news access. I never realised how much information I get from
here :o)

I've had to visit Google and read the 'back issues' - data/index seems
to have proveoked a bit of a response. I have to admit, I always fell
into the trap as well. Mind you, when I was having my DBA course at
Oracle, I was taught 'OFA' separate tablespaces for system, data,
indexes, etc. And these *had* to go on separate discs. I always had my
doubts ....

I knew about the 9i security hole, I managed to read most of that thread
before going 'off air'. Not only that, but I had an announcement from
Oracle emailled to me with info on that very hole, plus one in 8i as
well.

It's good to be back.

Cheers,
Norman.

-------------------------------------
Norman Dunbar
Database/Unix administrator
Lynx Financial Systems Ltd.

Tel: 0113 289 6265
Fax: 0113 289 3146
URL: http://www.Lynx-FS.com
-------------------------------------

-----Original Message-----

Posted At: Thursday, April 25, 2002 9:00 PM
Posted To: server
Conversation: Ok let me ask that again - maybe someone intelligent will
answer this time
Subject: Re: Ok let me ask that again - maybe someone intelligent will
answer this time



> PS. I've missed a lot over the last few days, we had a new firewall
> installed, and News was no longer working :o(

welcome back. Check out the threads on 9idb security hole and seperate
data/inidex (no really; no-one corrected that typo)  good stuff. Plus
dross
from me obviously.

 
 
 

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John Lee
Marymonte Systems

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