I know this is my 2nd (and final) cross-post, but which NG should I use for data files

I know this is my 2nd (and final) cross-post, but which NG should I use for data files

Post by Lapha » Sun, 13 Jul 2003 03:52:24



Hi All

I know this is my 2nd (and final) cross-post, but which NG should I use for
the below.

I want to create a game that queries and updates text and numeric stats on a
regular basis, so I'm looking for a data file method that allows me to query
and update the file from a VB app.

I use MS Access/ASP on a daily basis and was hoping to use this knowledge to
create this app, but after seeing the ridiculous dependency downloads (eg,
120MB for the MS Access run-time download, 8MB for ADO, etc) I can't believe
anybody can develop anything of this kind.  In which case:

a) Does anybody know and use a small (and poss free) RDMS?

b) If I go the Access DB route (which I prefer) is it best to create such as
an Access 97 version of my prog, an Access 2000 version and then state that
they need Win2000/XP/NT running MS Access to use it?

I know this is very limiting, but won't this cater for the VBRuntime,
FileSysObject, ADO and MS Access references/DLLs?

Is there any other way?

c) If not, is it best to look at Random Access files?  These seem database
orientated and don't seem to need any external DLLs/OCXs.

I've been told about Seq, Binary and INI files, but the whole process of
querying them, eg I need the details of code BE01, and updating them, eg add
6 to ZX02's current total of 10, seems very complicated.  Is this true or
can somebody show me an example to differ?

d) If I go the Random Access/Seq/INI option they don't seem to be any good
when it comes to protection.  You can simply open them up in a text file and
change the content.

I did a VB game a long time ago whereby all of the text file was in an ASCII
code format (complex or what??) and did a little routine to convert this
back when it was read in by the VB app's array.

Problem was that this was very slow to say what data was in the file and I
couldn't write back to the file because it was all in ASCII code.

I've seen data files look like mumbo-jumbo and they read and write data at a
speed that you don't notice any lag whatsoever, so how the hell do you
experts do it?

I know I'm asking a lot here, but I just want to be put on the right path so
that I don't s*it half way through development.  I can't be the first to
tackle this plan.

Many thanks.

Rgds

Laphan

 
 
 

I know this is my 2nd (and final) cross-post, but which NG should I use for data files

Post by Kim Mitchel » Sun, 13 Jul 2003 06:26:47


You can try Sequential and/or Random access files instead of a database.
Check help under "Open", "Input", "output" or "Random" for information on
using them.

Kim


Quote:> Hi All

> I know this is my 2nd (and final) cross-post, but which NG should I use
for
> the below.

> I want to create a game that queries and updates text and numeric stats on
a
> regular basis, so I'm looking for a data file method that allows me to
query
> and update the file from a VB app.

> I use MS Access/ASP on a daily basis and was hoping to use this knowledge
to
> create this app, but after seeing the ridiculous dependency downloads (eg,
> 120MB for the MS Access run-time download, 8MB for ADO, etc) I can't
believe
> anybody can develop anything of this kind.  In which case:

> a) Does anybody know and use a small (and poss free) RDMS?

> b) If I go the Access DB route (which I prefer) is it best to create such
as
> an Access 97 version of my prog, an Access 2000 version and then state
that
> they need Win2000/XP/NT running MS Access to use it?

> I know this is very limiting, but won't this cater for the VBRuntime,
> FileSysObject, ADO and MS Access references/DLLs?

> Is there any other way?

> c) If not, is it best to look at Random Access files?  These seem database
> orientated and don't seem to need any external DLLs/OCXs.

> I've been told about Seq, Binary and INI files, but the whole process of
> querying them, eg I need the details of code BE01, and updating them, eg
add
> 6 to ZX02's current total of 10, seems very complicated.  Is this true or
> can somebody show me an example to differ?

> d) If I go the Random Access/Seq/INI option they don't seem to be any good
> when it comes to protection.  You can simply open them up in a text file
and
> change the content.

> I did a VB game a long time ago whereby all of the text file was in an
ASCII
> code format (complex or what??) and did a little routine to convert this
> back when it was read in by the VB app's array.

> Problem was that this was very slow to say what data was in the file and I
> couldn't write back to the file because it was all in ASCII code.

> I've seen data files look like mumbo-jumbo and they read and write data at
a
> speed that you don't notice any lag whatsoever, so how the hell do you
> experts do it?

> I know I'm asking a lot here, but I just want to be put on the right path
so
> that I don't s*it half way through development.  I can't be the first
to
> tackle this plan.

> Many thanks.

> Rgds

> Laphan


 
 
 

I know this is my 2nd (and final) cross-post, but which NG should I use for data files

Post by Geoffrey » Mon, 14 Jul 2003 07:50:40


Hello Laphan

The experts do it by choosing the best data format that supports the
requirements.

What kind of access to the data  is needed:- do you need fast indexed
access to the data or is the data small enough for a brute force
search to be used?  Do we need random access or simple sequential
access?

Its hard to hide textual data from easy external access without
encryption.  Its entirely possible to look at an access database in a
Hex viewer and find and change its text data, though the dangers of
corrupting the database are pretty high.

Without knowing some of the data and uses required its hard to give a
general overview of all the possibilities without writing a text book
on the subject.

Access databases are a good means of storing many types of data but it
caters for many possibilites, simple to complex, hence the relatively
large size.  Personally I have never found it a great problem to
distribute the runtimes.  

Runtimes for DAO 3.6 come to 5.4MB uncompressed and 2.5MB compressed.

Runtimes for VB come to about 1.2MB compressed.

I dont have the size of the ADO runtimes to hand but I would geuss it
is a little larger than DAO but I still wouldnt think it was too large
a problem for most people.  I suppose it depends on how you intend to
distribute it.

On the face of it a binary file would seem a reasonable alternative.
They arent difficult to use but any indexing and searching HAS to be
implemented by you.. Do you have a little more detail?

Geoff

On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 18:52:24 +0000 (UTC), "Laphan"


>Hi All

>I know this is my 2nd (and final) cross-post, but which NG should I use for
>the below.

>I want to create a game that queries and updates text and numeric stats on a
>regular basis, so I'm looking for a data file method that allows me to query
>and update the file from a VB app.

>I use MS Access/ASP on a daily basis and was hoping to use this knowledge to
>create this app, but after seeing the ridiculous dependency downloads (eg,
>120MB for the MS Access run-time download, 8MB for ADO, etc) I can't believe
>anybody can develop anything of this kind.  In which case:

>a) Does anybody know and use a small (and poss free) RDMS?

>b) If I go the Access DB route (which I prefer) is it best to create such as
>an Access 97 version of my prog, an Access 2000 version and then state that
>they need Win2000/XP/NT running MS Access to use it?

>I know this is very limiting, but won't this cater for the VBRuntime,
>FileSysObject, ADO and MS Access references/DLLs?

>Is there any other way?

>c) If not, is it best to look at Random Access files?  These seem database
>orientated and don't seem to need any external DLLs/OCXs.

>I've been told about Seq, Binary and INI files, but the whole process of
>querying them, eg I need the details of code BE01, and updating them, eg add
>6 to ZX02's current total of 10, seems very complicated.  Is this true or
>can somebody show me an example to differ?

>d) If I go the Random Access/Seq/INI option they don't seem to be any good
>when it comes to protection.  You can simply open them up in a text file and
>change the content.

>I did a VB game a long time ago whereby all of the text file was in an ASCII
>code format (complex or what??) and did a little routine to convert this
>back when it was read in by the VB app's array.

>Problem was that this was very slow to say what data was in the file and I
>couldn't write back to the file because it was all in ASCII code.

>I've seen data files look like mumbo-jumbo and they read and write data at a
>speed that you don't notice any lag whatsoever, so how the hell do you
>experts do it?

>I know I'm asking a lot here, but I just want to be put on the right path so
>that I don't s*it half way through development.  I can't be the first to
>tackle this plan.

>Many thanks.

>Rgds

>Laphan

 
 
 

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