Database backup / database File Backup

Database backup / database File Backup

Post by Danny Press » Wed, 19 Mar 2003 19:14:59



HI,

I am evaluating our Database Plan (MS SQL server 7.0  on NT 4.0 clustered).
Our Databases only have 1 .MDF and 1 .LDF.

Those two (2) jobs are scheduled for each database:

- Database backup
- Database File backup

I don't understand why the previous DBA decided to schedule those two (2)
jobs for each DB.
Because we don't have filegroup, I think that we don't realyy need Database
File backup.

Do I missed someting ? Do you think that it is a good idea to keep those two
(2) job ? Why ?

Thank you

Danny

 
 
 

Database backup / database File Backup

Post by Andrew J. Kell » Wed, 19 Mar 2003 23:38:56


Descriptions are very interpretive and can cause a lot of confusion as to
what is actually being done.  Please post the scripts so we can see exactly
what these are doing.

--

Andrew J. Kelly
SQL Server MVP


Quote:> HI,

> I am evaluating our Database Plan (MS SQL server 7.0  on NT 4.0
clustered).
> Our Databases only have 1 .MDF and 1 .LDF.

> Those two (2) jobs are scheduled for each database:

> - Database backup
> - Database File backup

> I don't understand why the previous DBA decided to schedule those two (2)
> jobs for each DB.
> Because we don't have filegroup, I think that we don't realyy need
Database
> File backup.

> Do I missed someting ? Do you think that it is a good idea to keep those
two
> (2) job ? Why ?

> Thank you

> Danny


 
 
 

Database backup / database File Backup

Post by Danny Press » Thu, 20 Mar 2003 00:49:52


Sorry ! I am aggree with you !

This is the DB
ebmsdata1              m:\mssql7\data\ebmsdata1.mdf
ebmslog1                m:\mssql7\data\ebmslog1.ldf

The backup is executed by a third-party tool: Backupexec (Veritas / SQL
Agent).
I don't have the script.

Into SQL Server Error log , starting at 08 :58 :33

Database backed up with following information: Database: usiprddb, creation
date and time: 2000/06/26(21:03:44), pages dumped: 495560, first LSN:
2736:12423:5, last LSN: 2736:12430:1, sort order: 42, striped: 0, number of
dump devices: 1, device information: (FILE=1, TYPE=PIPE:
{'\\.\pipe\BackupExecSqlAgent-{44aba737-45de-11d7-b852-00e018a826dd}-00'}).

Into SQL Server Error log , starting at 09 :17 :14

Database file backed up with following information: Database: usiprddb,
creation date and time: 2000/06/26(21:03:44), file list:
(ebmsdata1(m:\mssql7\data\ebmsdata1.mdf)), pages dumped: 495538, sort order:
42, striped: 0, number of dump devices: 1, device information: (FILE=1,
TYPE=PIPE:
{'\\.\pipe\BackupExecSqlAgent-{44aba73e-45de-11d7-b852-00e018a826dd}-00'}).

I don't understand why the previous DBA decided to schedule those two (2)
jobs for the  DB ?
I think that we don't need to backup 2 times the same DB ?

- Database backup
- Database File backup

Do you think that it is a good idea to keep those two (2) jobs ? Why ?

Thank you

Danny



> Descriptions are very interpretive and can cause a lot of confusion as to
> what is actually being done.  Please post the scripts so we can see
exactly
> what these are doing.

> --

> Andrew J. Kelly
> SQL Server MVP



> > HI,

> > I am evaluating our Database Plan (MS SQL server 7.0  on NT 4.0
> clustered).
> > Our Databases only have 1 .MDF and 1 .LDF.

> > Those two (2) jobs are scheduled for each database:

> > - Database backup
> > - Database File backup

> > I don't understand why the previous DBA decided to schedule those two
(2)
> > jobs for each DB.
> > Because we don't have filegroup, I think that we don't realyy need
> Database
> > File backup.

> > Do I missed someting ? Do you think that it is a good idea to keep those
> two
> > (2) job ? Why ?

> > Thank you

> > Danny

 
 
 

Database backup / database File Backup

Post by Andrew J. Kell » Thu, 20 Mar 2003 02:28:25


You see it helps to know that you are using BackupExec and not the native
SQL Backup.  Unfortunately I don't use BackupExec so I can't say with
certainty but it looks as if the first one used the SQL Backup Plugin to do
the equivalent of a SQL Server backup and the second one is just doing an OS
file level backup of the .mdf.  If this is true the second one is useless
since the file can not be properly backed up while running and can not be
counted on to provide a solid or useful SQL Server backup.  I would check
with someone that know BackupExec first though.

--

Andrew J. Kelly
SQL Server MVP


Quote:> Sorry ! I am aggree with you !

> This is the DB
> ebmsdata1              m:\mssql7\data\ebmsdata1.mdf
> ebmslog1                m:\mssql7\data\ebmslog1.ldf

> The backup is executed by a third-party tool: Backupexec (Veritas / SQL
> Agent).
> I don't have the script.

> Into SQL Server Error log , starting at 08 :58 :33

> Database backed up with following information: Database: usiprddb,
creation
> date and time: 2000/06/26(21:03:44), pages dumped: 495560, first LSN:
> 2736:12423:5, last LSN: 2736:12430:1, sort order: 42, striped: 0, number
of
> dump devices: 1, device information: (FILE=1, TYPE=PIPE:

{'\\.\pipe\BackupExecSqlAgent-{44aba737-45de-11d7-b852-00e018a826dd}-00'}).
Quote:

> Into SQL Server Error log , starting at 09 :17 :14

> Database file backed up with following information: Database: usiprddb,
> creation date and time: 2000/06/26(21:03:44), file list:
> (ebmsdata1(m:\mssql7\data\ebmsdata1.mdf)), pages dumped: 495538, sort
order:
> 42, striped: 0, number of dump devices: 1, device information: (FILE=1,
> TYPE=PIPE:

{'\\.\pipe\BackupExecSqlAgent-{44aba73e-45de-11d7-b852-00e018a826dd}-00'}).

- Show quoted text -

> I don't understand why the previous DBA decided to schedule those two (2)
> jobs for the  DB ?
> I think that we don't need to backup 2 times the same DB ?

> - Database backup
> - Database File backup

> Do you think that it is a good idea to keep those two (2) jobs ? Why ?

> Thank you

> Danny




> > Descriptions are very interpretive and can cause a lot of confusion as
to
> > what is actually being done.  Please post the scripts so we can see
> exactly
> > what these are doing.

> > --

> > Andrew J. Kelly
> > SQL Server MVP



> > > HI,

> > > I am evaluating our Database Plan (MS SQL server 7.0  on NT 4.0
> > clustered).
> > > Our Databases only have 1 .MDF and 1 .LDF.

> > > Those two (2) jobs are scheduled for each database:

> > > - Database backup
> > > - Database File backup

> > > I don't understand why the previous DBA decided to schedule those two
> (2)
> > > jobs for each DB.
> > > Because we don't have filegroup, I think that we don't realyy need
> > Database
> > > File backup.

> > > Do I missed someting ? Do you think that it is a good idea to keep
those
> > two
> > > (2) job ? Why ?

> > > Thank you

> > > Danny

 
 
 

Database backup / database File Backup

Post by Tibor Karasz » Thu, 20 Mar 2003 09:42:39


My guess is that the second is BackupExec executing BACKUP DATABASE .... WITH FILE = ...
If that it the case, I'd say that the file (partial) backup is redundant.

--
Tibor Karaszi, SQL Server MVP
For help on TSQL, please provide code we can execute in Query Analyzer



> You see it helps to know that you are using BackupExec and not the native
> SQL Backup.  Unfortunately I don't use BackupExec so I can't say with
> certainty but it looks as if the first one used the SQL Backup Plugin to do
> the equivalent of a SQL Server backup and the second one is just doing an OS
> file level backup of the .mdf.  If this is true the second one is useless
> since the file can not be properly backed up while running and can not be
> counted on to provide a solid or useful SQL Server backup.  I would check
> with someone that know BackupExec first though.

> --

> Andrew J. Kelly
> SQL Server MVP



> > Sorry ! I am aggree with you !

> > This is the DB
> > ebmsdata1              m:\mssql7\data\ebmsdata1.mdf
> > ebmslog1                m:\mssql7\data\ebmslog1.ldf

> > The backup is executed by a third-party tool: Backupexec (Veritas / SQL
> > Agent).
> > I don't have the script.

> > Into SQL Server Error log , starting at 08 :58 :33

> > Database backed up with following information: Database: usiprddb,
> creation
> > date and time: 2000/06/26(21:03:44), pages dumped: 495560, first LSN:
> > 2736:12423:5, last LSN: 2736:12430:1, sort order: 42, striped: 0, number
> of
> > dump devices: 1, device information: (FILE=1, TYPE=PIPE:

> {'\\.\pipe\BackupExecSqlAgent-{44aba737-45de-11d7-b852-00e018a826dd}-00'}).

> > Into SQL Server Error log , starting at 09 :17 :14

> > Database file backed up with following information: Database: usiprddb,
> > creation date and time: 2000/06/26(21:03:44), file list:
> > (ebmsdata1(m:\mssql7\data\ebmsdata1.mdf)), pages dumped: 495538, sort
> order:
> > 42, striped: 0, number of dump devices: 1, device information: (FILE=1,
> > TYPE=PIPE:

> {'\\.\pipe\BackupExecSqlAgent-{44aba73e-45de-11d7-b852-00e018a826dd}-00'}).

> > I don't understand why the previous DBA decided to schedule those two (2)
> > jobs for the  DB ?
> > I think that we don't need to backup 2 times the same DB ?

> > - Database backup
> > - Database File backup

> > Do you think that it is a good idea to keep those two (2) jobs ? Why ?

> > Thank you

> > Danny




> > > Descriptions are very interpretive and can cause a lot of confusion as
> to
> > > what is actually being done.  Please post the scripts so we can see
> > exactly
> > > what these are doing.

> > > --

> > > Andrew J. Kelly
> > > SQL Server MVP



> > > > HI,

> > > > I am evaluating our Database Plan (MS SQL server 7.0  on NT 4.0
> > > clustered).
> > > > Our Databases only have 1 .MDF and 1 .LDF.

> > > > Those two (2) jobs are scheduled for each database:

> > > > - Database backup
> > > > - Database File backup

> > > > I don't understand why the previous DBA decided to schedule those two
> > (2)
> > > > jobs for each DB.
> > > > Because we don't have filegroup, I think that we don't realyy need
> > > Database
> > > > File backup.

> > > > Do I missed someting ? Do you think that it is a good idea to keep
> those
> > > two
> > > > (2) job ? Why ?

> > > > Thank you

> > > > Danny

 
 
 

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