Very Computer

I have to give a talk tomorrow in The Netherlands on web databases.
This is not really my area of expertise, so I know I mised something.
How about a litle help here? What topics are important? What should I
say about them? etc.  The conference has an XML track.

--CELKO--

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Before you buy.

I probably know even less about web databases than you; I didn't even
know there was such a thing.  But I know what sort of thing I think
the audience needs to hear, and you are quite familiar with the
general theme:  "Just because it is a web database doesn't mean you
should forget everything we have learned about Good Database Design."

XML reminded me of part of Lotus Notes, the part I didn't like.  I'm
not sure if this a sign of aging or just that I haven't seen enough
about it yet.

Have fun, and enjoy the beer!

Roy

Joe,

The single most asked question about databases accessed via the Web, I believe,
is "I want to program a search engine just like (name your pick). How do I
return just records 51 thru 100?"

Yeah, I know records aren't rows ... I'm just telling you what the most asked
question is, and using the common phrasing. I figured I'd give you an
opportunity to harangue the audience on the difference between rows/records,
columns/fields, tables/files. Should be able to consume at least 5 minutes. That
way you have to think up 5 less minutes of talk  :-)

Seriously, you might emphasize the difference between a database and the
application using the database, and partitioning the work appropriately between
the two.

BPM

Quote:>> XML reminded me of part of Lotus Notes, the part I didn't like. I'm

not sure if this a sign of aging or just that I haven't seen enough
about it yet. <<

I will enjoy the beer, for sure!  XML is looking interesting.  It is a
heirarchical, so I want to see if I can use my nested sets model to
parse it into an SQL database.

--CELKO--

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

Quote:>> XML reminded me of part of Lotus Notes, the part I didn't like. I'm

not sure if this a sign of aging or just that I haven't seen enough
about it yet. <<

I will enjoy the beer, for sure!  XML is looking interesting.  It is a
heirarchical, so I want to see if I can use my nested sets model to
parse it into an SQL database.

--CELKO--

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

Quote:>> Seriously, you might emphasize the difference between a database and

the application using the database, and partitioning the work
appropriately between the two. <<

Okay, sounds good.

--CELKO--

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

Joe,

Two issues come to my mind, if I'd be there I'd ask you:

1. Replication is an important thing in every database and so in WEB
databases too. You wouldn't want to update your main or production
database with your new information, so you'll do it on a secondary
database with the very same structure and use probably transactional
replication between the two. And here is the twist. Usually you protect
your very "end" environment behind a firewall. Now, here is the twist:
SQL Server requieres for a replication that every computer invloved
(primary/secondary or production/development, etc) were on the same
side of a firewall. Now we have a very handy software on our
development machine that can not get through a firewall, so we can not
move the firewall. How to raplicate? If we can not replicate how to
maintain the production database?

2. The secondary machine (for development) would have the purpose to
serve as a backup for the live primary system. (Though, the primary
system could have the RAID5 mirroring mirracle, but what if the whole
computer crashes?) As the secondary machine's DB is perfect copy of the
primary's, it consists some very denormalized tables in order to reduce
join widths (less tables possible) and enhence query performance.
So, it is hard to update a denormalized database (a client application
should fire lot of queries before doing anything) - rows relying on
rows in the same table, etc. Than you would need a third environment
with a DB optimized to maintain integrity in the data, with a more
fragmented and normalized structure, proper triggers, constraints,
keys, etc. Independently of the firewall story, it would be very
benefitial for those who want to implement a good data driven web site
to have some advice how to overcome this kind of situations: moving
consistent data from the third environment into the second environment
and back and forth automagicly and reliably? How to set up raplication,
what model to chose, or just use DTS.

Sorry Joe, it was not about XML track.

Thanx,

John

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Before you buy.

To reiterate this sentiment, I have discovered that many web developers are
not familiar with general database design techniques.  Further, the web
developers that I have encountered, have had a difficult time separating
functionality.  They try to do too much on one page in one routine.  XML
exasperates the problem because it allows any web developer to create what
they think of as a database.

Tom

Quote:> > I have to give a talk tomorrow in The Netherlands on web databases.
> > This is not really my area of expertise, so I know I mised something.
> > How about a litle help here? What topics are important? What should I
> > say about them? etc.  The conference has an XML track.

> > --CELKO--

> > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> > Before you buy.

Didja know that SQL2000, or even SQL7 with the something-something
preview ad-in, will return result sets in XML instead of, ... of
whatever they normally return as?

(too late for your talk, I spose)

J.