New designs with 68332

New designs with 68332

Post by Yaak » Tue, 17 Jun 2003 23:27:06



Is anyone doing new designs with the 68332? Local agents of
development tools (and Motorola's distributor as well) are all trying
to steer me away in favor of PowerPC or ColdFire. We've used it for
several successful (i.e. profitable) designs. We're starting a new
development and want to know of to stck with it or move along.
 
 
 

New designs with 68332

Post by John Larki » Wed, 18 Jun 2003 00:20:22



Quote:>Is anyone doing new designs with the 68332? Local agents of
>development tools (and Motorola's distributor as well) are all trying
>to steer me away in favor of PowerPC or ColdFire. We've used it for
>several successful (i.e. profitable) designs. We're starting a new
>development and want to know of to stck with it or move along.

I am. We have a bunch of products that use the '332, and have all the
support tools and such in place, so I'll keep using it. I call
Motorola periodically to see if the chip is still OK, and they say
that millions are still being made for automotive apps. Any chip is a
risk, but Moto has been better than many others about longterm
availability. The MC6800 was in production for over 20 years, as I
recall. Intel often cancelled a part before it hit distribution,
leaving a lot of people high and very dry.

The '332 is a great little chip. We can pop out a typical embedded
design with it in a couple of weeks of effort.

John

 
 
 

New designs with 68332

Post by Steve Wheele » Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:15:31



Quote:> Is anyone doing new designs with the 68332? Local agents of
> development tools (and Motorola's distributor as well) are all trying
> to steer me away in favor of PowerPC or ColdFire. We've used it for
> several successful (i.e. profitable) designs. We're starting a new
> development and want to know of to stck with it or move along.

I don't see a problem with using the 68332 unless you want more speed.
The Coldfire has a growth path ahead of it. The 16MHz 68332 has been
discontinued, but Motorola has said they're planning to continue making
the current parts for the foreseeable future. They apparently do not
intend to produce anything faster than the 25MHz parts they're making
now, though.

- wheels

 
 
 

New designs with 68332

Post by John Larki » Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:35:45


On Tue, 17 Jun 2003 03:15:31 GMT, "Steve Wheeler"




>> Is anyone doing new designs with the 68332? Local agents of
>> development tools (and Motorola's distributor as well) are all trying
>> to steer me away in favor of PowerPC or ColdFire. We've used it for
>> several successful (i.e. profitable) designs. We're starting a new
>> development and want to know of to stck with it or move along.

>I don't see a problem with using the 68332 unless you want more speed.
>The Coldfire has a growth path ahead of it. The 16MHz 68332 has been
>discontinued, but Motorola has said they're planning to continue making
>the current parts for the foreseeable future. They apparently do not
>intend to produce anything faster than the 25MHz parts they're making
>now, though.

>- wheels

The 25 MHz part can actually do a lot of computing. The 32-bit
registers, hardware mul/div, pipelined loops, and a nice instruction
set make for a lot of crunching. One cool thing is to copy critical
loops from external EPROM into the internal RAM and execute them
there.

The independent TPU and SPI microengines are handy, too. Nice part,
overall.

John

 
 
 

New designs with 68332

Post by Gene S. Berkowit » Wed, 18 Jun 2003 13:01:03






> > Is anyone doing new designs with the 68332? Local agents of
> > development tools (and Motorola's distributor as well) are all trying
> > to steer me away in favor of PowerPC or ColdFire. We've used it for
> > several successful (i.e. profitable) designs. We're starting a new
> > development and want to know of to stck with it or move along.

> I don't see a problem with using the 68332 unless you want more speed.
> The Coldfire has a growth path ahead of it. The 16MHz 68332 has been
> discontinued, but Motorola has said they're planning to continue making
> the current parts for the foreseeable future. They apparently do not
> intend to produce anything faster than the 25MHz parts they're making
> now, though.

> - wheels

I understand that 16MHz is still in production for 3.3V parts.

--Gene

 
 
 

New designs with 68332

Post by David Brow » Wed, 18 Jun 2003 18:01:19



Quote:> Is anyone doing new designs with the 68332? Local agents of
> development tools (and Motorola's distributor as well) are all trying
> to steer me away in favor of PowerPC or ColdFire. We've used it for
> several successful (i.e. profitable) designs. We're starting a new
> development and want to know of to stck with it or move along.

My understanding is that the 68332 will be in production for the foreseeable
future, but there are no promises.  I have heard that Motorola have gone
from saying "we have no plans for discontinuing the 68332" to saying
nothing.  As long as they have fabs that can make the chip, and as long as
people (in particular, large automotive customers) are buying them, they
will keep making them.  I would expect that the prices for the 68332 will go
up and the prices for the MPC and ColdFires will come down, but I have no
real idea of the time frame - it could be many years, and the chip will
probably be available through resalers for years after that.  We have a fair
number of cards based on the chip, and would love to know the future - as
would our suppliers.  We are looking at both the ColdFire and the MPC for
other purposes anyway, which will cover us in the future, but in the
meantime, we will continue to make new cards with the chip.
 
 
 

New designs with 68332

Post by Yaak » Wed, 18 Jun 2003 19:39:41







> > > Is anyone doing new designs with the 68332? Local agents of
> > > development tools (and Motorola's distributor as well) are all trying
> > > to steer me away in favor of PowerPC or ColdFire. We've used it for
> > > several successful (i.e. profitable) designs. We're starting a new
> > > development and want to know of to stck with it or move along.

1) Thanks to all of you for the input

2) Don't get me wrong. I love the '332. We've have it in 3 designs at
25MHz 5V and another at 16MHz 3.3V. I drive the TPU out of the On-Chip
Ram in Emulation Mode thereby allowing a mix of A and G mask functions
(although I don't have the stomach for TPU microcoding). Just don't
want to be stonewalled into moving over to a chip that's forced on me.

3) By the way, what tools are you all using? (John that question isn't
for you. I checked out a couple of threads you posted on and know
you're an avowed Assembler man. :-}). We've been using Sierra C and
AMX version 2. Would be nice to move along to more modern tools. Our
BDM connection gets knocked over occasionally because it's in a DOS
box in '98. Can't even switch to 2000 or XP because of the parallel
port.

Yaakov

 
 
 

New designs with 68332

Post by Hans-Bernhard Broeke » Wed, 18 Jun 2003 21:31:39


[Note F'up2 reduction...]


Quote:> The idea that DOS programs run better under Win9x than under NT/W2K is
> mainly myth.  

If only that were true...  I closely follow the development of DJGPP
(DOS port of GNU tools) and trust me: NT and its descendants
definitely are hostile territory for non-trivial DOS applications.
Getting those DPMI client applications to run on Win2K and XP at all
was positevely a nightmare.

Every new release comes with new insane malfunctions or outright lack
of fundamental APIs.  NT4, e.g., won't let DOS programs have any
access to long filenames, even though by its time, Win95 had already
established a DOS API extension that they just would have had to
implement on NT4, too.  Win 2K did implement that API, but with some
blatant bugs and holes in it.  Only XP seems to have got that about
right.

Don't get me wrong here: I'm not talking about things that a
self-respecting multitasking OS simply _has_ to forbid individual
tasks to do, like direct hardware access to, say, video memory or
timer chips.  The problems are in the virtualization of these.  E.g.,
support for DOS programs wanting to display graphics at more than
ancient VGA/MCGA resolutions is essentially non-existing in spite of
the well-defined VESA VBE interface.  And even then it only works
anywhere near reliably in full-screen mode.

If only the printer port is the problem, then yes, GIVEIO.SYS can and
does remedy that, _if_ you can modify the program in question to
request it.  But not all problems are limited to having access to I/O
ports, to begin with, so don't expect this to be a panacea.

--

Even if all the snow were burnt, ashes would remain.

 
 
 

New designs with 68332

Post by R2D2 » Thu, 19 Jun 2003 12:52:32


How does the 68332 compare to the Intel StrongARM  SA-1100 or SA-1110??
speedwise? power-hogging wise??   Its probably misleading to compare speed
of
one processor to another but the Strongarm is capable of running 233Mhz
(gasp!) and above.
I am really keen on learning this thing because I can see the potential of
this chip??

Gasp!  You can probably fly a cruyse (spelling) missile with that thing
considering it can
compute so fast!!!  Feed back control via GPS anyone??




> > Is anyone doing new designs with the 68332? Local agents of
> > development tools (and Motorola's distributor as well) are all trying
> > to steer me away in favor of PowerPC or ColdFire. We've used it for
> > several successful (i.e. profitable) designs. We're starting a new
> > development and want to know of to stck with it or move along.

> My understanding is that the 68332 will be in production for the
foreseeable
> future, but there are no promises.  I have heard that Motorola have gone
> from saying "we have no plans for discontinuing the 68332" to saying
> nothing.  As long as they have fabs that can make the chip, and as long as
> people (in particular, large automotive customers) are buying them, they
> will keep making them.  I would expect that the prices for the 68332 will
go
> up and the prices for the MPC and ColdFires will come down, but I have no
> real idea of the time frame - it could be many years, and the chip will
> probably be available through resalers for years after that.  We have a
fair
> number of cards based on the chip, and would love to know the future - as
> would our suppliers.  We are looking at both the ColdFire and the MPC for
> other purposes anyway, which will cover us in the future, but in the
> meantime, we will continue to make new cards with the chip.

 
 
 

New designs with 68332

Post by David Brow » Thu, 19 Jun 2003 15:15:32



Quote:> How does the 68332 compare to the Intel StrongARM  SA-1100 or SA-1110??
> speedwise? power-hogging wise??   Its probably misleading to compare speed
> of
> one processor to another but the Strongarm is capable of running 233Mhz
> (gasp!) and above.
> I am really keen on learning this thing because I can see the potential of
> this chip??

> Gasp!  You can probably fly a cruyse (spelling) missile with that thing
> considering it can
> compute so fast!!!  Feed back control via GPS anyone??

The 68332 runs at up to 25 MHz, so in pure processing terms it will not come
close to a 233 MHz StrongARM.  It is tough trying to compare such chips -
the 68k is a CISC cpu, with several clock cycles per instruction, but with
instructions that can do more than most ARM instructions.  For speed, think
of an old 386SX-25 computer, but imagine running DOS quickly rather than
Windows 3.1 slowly :-)

The 68332 is a 5 V chip, and takes a fair amount of power.  It is an old
chip, with all the advantages (maturity, reliability, proven track record)
and the disadvantages (high power, high voltage, large packages) that go
with that.





> > > Is anyone doing new designs with the 68332? Local agents of
> > > development tools (and Motorola's distributor as well) are all trying
> > > to steer me away in favor of PowerPC or ColdFire. We've used it for
> > > several successful (i.e. profitable) designs. We're starting a new
> > > development and want to know of to stck with it or move along.

> > My understanding is that the 68332 will be in production for the
> foreseeable
> > future, but there are no promises.  I have heard that Motorola have gone
> > from saying "we have no plans for discontinuing the 68332" to saying
> > nothing.  As long as they have fabs that can make the chip, and as long
as
> > people (in particular, large automotive customers) are buying them, they
> > will keep making them.  I would expect that the prices for the 68332
will
> go
> > up and the prices for the MPC and ColdFires will come down, but I have
no
> > real idea of the time frame - it could be many years, and the chip will
> > probably be available through resalers for years after that.  We have a
> fair
> > number of cards based on the chip, and would love to know the future -
as
> > would our suppliers.  We are looking at both the ColdFire and the MPC
for
> > other purposes anyway, which will cover us in the future, but in the
> > meantime, we will continue to make new cards with the chip.

 
 
 

1. Q: feasibility of new design around 68k ?

No problem here.

Hust have a look at motorolas Colfire processors.

http://e-www.motorola.com/webapp/sps/site/taxonomy.jsp?nodeId=01M0yls...

They are the next step after the m68k, and whatever you learned about
the mc68k, is still valid for the coldfire ;-)

You can use uClinux or RTEMS (Just two from the top of my head)

www.uclinux.org

http://www.oarcorp.com/

GNU

 > What boxes do they run under? Windoze? *nix?

Do yourself a favour, and use Linux or any *BSD for developement.

So compiler & debugger & other tools are working out of the box.
And are free.

cheers

P.S. If you need any further help, you can contact me via PM.

2. discontinue...?!

3. New Designs using the 68681 & 68901

4. Clock cycles, in 8085

5. 68332 Proto Project Bugs

6. ISDN and Windows NT 4.0

7. GCC compiler for 68332?

8. Bibtex for list of publications

9. What is best/(cheapest) BDSM debugger for 68332

10. FreeBSD and gdb interface to 68332 Background Debugger Mode

11. 68332 base board

12. 68332 Memory Configuration Question

13. 68332 interrupt handling