HP 850c compares to HP 660c

HP 850c compares to HP 660c

Post by Frank Kuru » Sat, 12 Aug 1995 04:00:00



: What you must realize is that dpi is not everything. A 200 dpi continuous
: tone image (say dye-sub output) will look better than a 600 dpi binary
: color image. Why? Because the 600 dpi binary device supports only two levels
: for each primary color (dot on/ dot off). Most color inkjets are binary.
: In order to reproduce colors other than primaries or secondaries (two primary
: dots placed in the "same" location) binary printersmust resort to halftoning,
: which effectively reduces the amount of information printed. The 850/855
: while not continuous tone, have more than two levels.

: So for example, a two level printer with 300 dpi is effectively equivalent
                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Whoops!  That should have been *4 level* (Thanks for pointing out my
mistake Patrick!).

Frank
"Speaking for myself and not for HP"

 
 
 

HP 850c compares to HP 660c

Post by Brad Domin » Mon, 14 Aug 1995 04:00:00



>So for example, a two level printer with 300 dpi is effectively equivalent
>to a 600 dpi binary when printing colors other than primaries or
>secondaries. Add another level and the 300 dpi will give you a better
>image.  Raw dpi does win when printing text or line art in primary or
>secondary colors.

Frank,

OK, so can you tell me just how many levels the 850C/855C actually does have?  
How many the 660C and ESC have?  I've heard varying guesses at the number of
color per pixel that the 850C can produce.  In particular, I've heard that the
660C and ESC are 8 colors/pixel, while the 850C is either 16, 64, 128 or 256
colors per pixel.  Do you know which it is?

Thanks,
Brad


 
 
 

HP 850c compares to HP 660c

Post by Jack Ba » Mon, 14 Aug 1995 04:00:00


Has anyone seen this printer? I have been looking for an 850 to see
what sort of print it gives, but so far (including a new OfficeMax
super store) has an 850 or 855.

What is the street price?

What is the ink useage like?

 
 
 

HP 850c compares to HP 660c

Post by Richard Ne » Tue, 15 Aug 1995 04:00:00


Quote:>>So for example, a two level printer with 300 dpi is effectively equivalent
>>to a 600 dpi binary when printing colors other than primaries or
>>secondaries. Add another level and the 300 dpi will give you a better
>>image.  Raw dpi does win when printing text or line art in primary or
>>secondary colors.

>Frank,
>OK, so can you tell me just how many levels the 850C/855C actually does have?  
>How many the 660C and ESC have?  I've heard varying guesses at the number of
>color per pixel that the 850C can produce.  In particular, I've heard that the
>660C and ESC are 8 colors/pixel, while the 850C is either 16, 64, 128 or 256
>colors per pixel.  Do you know which it is?

If that's the case, it looks like I'm going to be looking for the 850.
 
 
 

HP 850c compares to HP 660c

Post by Jake Patters » Tue, 15 Aug 1995 04:00:00



> OK, so can you tell me just how many levels the 850C/855C actually does
> have?  How many the 660C and ESC have?  I've heard varying guesses at
> the number of color per pixel that the 850C can produce.  In particular,
> I've heard that the 660C and ESC are 8 colors/pixel, while the 850C is
> either 16, 64, 128 or 256  colors per pixel.  Do you know which it is?

 From what I have heard, the 850 can produce 256 colors, but only 124 of
those are different enough to be usefull.  Could someone from HP clarify?

__
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HP 850c compares to HP 660c

Post by Gianluca *jlm* Mear » Tue, 15 Aug 1995 04:00:00


Perhaps hasn't anybody forgotten the new EPSON STYLUS PRO?
I repost below an old letter of mine about its features...

1.  MICRODOT: a technology that has reduced the dimension of the dot
by 30-40% and enhanced the regularity of its circular shape; this is
similar to the HP 850c C-REt, with the difference that the HP has
300dpi C-REt (similar to a pure 600dpi dot size) while the ESPro has
720dpi Microdot (similar to a pure 900dpi...)
2.  720x720 on common paper: YES! it's possible, thanx to the Microdot
technology; this isn't 720x360, but PURE 720dpi with the only
limitations of the common paper.
3.  The 1.06 driver is not a definitive driver, but it uses correctly
the new features of the ESPro (even under win95).
4.  With common paper (Fabriano 80g/m2) the black ink is not dark like
the HP's one at 360dpi (I've compared with my old 500c): this because
the paper absorbes too much ink (I'll try other papers... if anybody
could give an advice, 'cos this way isn't possible to print perfectly
on both sides...). Anyway at 720 even on common paper the black
results are far darker and crisper than HP's (on special paper are
even darker than the LaserJet 4MV of my University!)
5.  Technical support told me not to use paper with weight exeeding
that raccomanded in the manual (90g/m2), but the Epson boy didn't know
of the possibility of A6 thick paper written in the same manual: so I
ask if you know anything...
6.  Does aAnybody know anything of the new 2.0 drivers fpr win95?

Oh, and one last thing: (Colonel Blair in WC3...)
*****   THIS PRINTER IS FANTASTIC !!!   *****

Cheers,
  Gianluca Meardi

 
 
 

HP 850c compares to HP 660c

Post by Eric Ro » Tue, 15 Aug 1995 04:00:00



: >So for example, a two level printer with 300 dpi is effectively equivalent
: >to a 600 dpi binary when printing colors other than primaries or
: >secondaries. Add another level and the 300 dpi will give you a better
: >image.  Raw dpi does win when printing text or line art in primary or
: >secondary colors.
: >

: Frank,

: OK, so can you tell me just how many levels the 850C/855C actually does have?  
: How many the 660C and ESC have?  I've heard varying guesses at the number of
: color per pixel that the 850C can produce.  In particular, I've heard that the
: 660C and ESC are 8 colors/pixel, while the 850C is either 16, 64, 128 or 256
: colors per pixel.  Do you know which it is?

: Thanks,
: Brad

There are between 8 and 64 levels of color depending on the print
mode in the 850C.   The print mode is determined by the type of output
and whether it is in Economy, Normal or in Best mode.  The appropriate
selection of the print mode is done by the ColorSmart(R) driver.
The 660C has 8 levels.  I assume that you are calculating levels by
the following formula:

(# levels CYAN) * (# levels MAGENTA) * (# levels YELLOW) and ignoring
the separate black ink.

For more vivid black, both the 660C and the 850C use true black rather
than mixing the three primary colors as other products may do.  This will
give better looking text and line graphics.  So in effect, there are actually,
more shades possible than the 8 and 64 mentioned above if you include the
black in the calculation.

--
Eric Ross          |  Hewlett-Packard Company, VPR

(360)212-2372

 
 
 

HP 850c compares to HP 660c

Post by Brad Domin » Wed, 16 Aug 1995 04:00:00



>There are between 8 and 64 levels of color depending on the print
>mode in the 850C.   The print mode is determined by the type of output
>and whether it is in Economy, Normal or in Best mode.  The appropriate
>selection of the print mode is done by the ColorSmart(R) driver.
>The 660C has 8 levels.  I assume that you are calculating levels by
>the following formula:

>(# levels CYAN) * (# levels MAGENTA) * (# levels YELLOW) and ignoring
>the separate black ink.

>For more vivid black, both the 660C and the 850C use true black rather
>than mixing the three primary colors as other products may do.  This will
>give better looking text and line graphics.  So in effect, there are
actually,
>more shades possible than the 8 and 64 mentioned above if you include the
>black in the calculation.

So, how many does it really have?  You say "more than the 8 and 64 mentioned
above if you include the black in the calculation".  Does the 850C mix black
ink along with the colors to increase the number of levels?

I'm trying to find out exactly how many colors per pixel the 850C can use, in
best mode, of course, as opposed to the 660C and ESC.

Thanks,
Brad

 
 
 

HP 850c compares to HP 660c

Post by Matt Pier » Fri, 18 Aug 1995 04:00:00



: Perhaps hasn't anybody forgotten the new EPSON STYLUS PRO?
: I repost below an old letter of mine about its features...

: 1.  MICRODOT: a technology that has reduced the dimension of the dot
: by 30-40% and enhanced the regularity of its circular shape; this is
: similar to the HP 850c C-REt, with the difference that the HP has
: 300dpi C-REt (similar to a pure 600dpi dot size) while the ESPro has
: 720dpi Microdot (similar to a pure 900dpi...)

Hmm, how is this similar to C-Ret?  The only similarity listed above
is the dot size, but C-Ret lays multiple passes of dots on dots, does
the ESP do the same?  If so, it's not listed above to support the
statement, and if not then there is not much similarity to C-Ret.

: 2.  720x720 on common paper: YES! it's possible, thanx to the Microdot
: technology; this isn't 720x360, but PURE 720dpi with the only
: limitations of the common paper.

Well, the ink used is a limitation too.

: 4.  With common paper (Fabriano 80g/m2) the black ink is not dark like
: the HP's one at 360dpi (I've compared with my old 500c): this because
: the paper absorbes too much ink (I'll try other papers... if anybody
: could give an advice, 'cos this way isn't possible to print perfectly
: on both sides...). Anyway at 720 even on common paper the black
: results are far darker and crisper than HP's (on special paper are
: even darker than the LaserJet 4MV of my University!)

Hmm, I doubt it unless it has pigment based black ink too like the
850.

Matt Pierce

Speaking for myself and not HP.

 
 
 

HP 850c compares to HP 660c

Post by Gianluca *jlm* Mear » Tue, 22 Aug 1995 04:00:00



>: 1.  MICRODOT: a technology that has reduced the dimension of the dot
>: by 30-40% and enhanced the regularity of its circular shape; this is
>: similar to the HP 850c C-REt, with the difference that the HP has
>: 300dpi C-REt (similar to a pure 600dpi dot size) while the ESPro has
>: 720dpi Microdot (similar to a pure 900dpi...)
>Hmm, how is this similar to C-Ret?  The only similarity listed above
>is the dot size, but C-Ret lays multiple passes of dots on dots, does
>the ESP do the same?  If so, it's not listed above to support the
>statement, and if not then there is not much similarity to C-Ret.

Yes, the ESP passes dots on dots as every inkjet... To get a green
color, cyan passes on yellow, for example. It's only a software
problem, I think. Anyway the 850c has got a 300dpi addressability
(with 600dpi size) against a pure 720dpi  (with 900dpi size).

Quote:>: 2.  720x720 on common paper: YES! it's possible, thanx to the Microdot
>: technology; this isn't 720x360, but PURE 720dpi with the only
>: limitations of the common paper.
>Well, the ink used is a limitation too.

You're right: printing at 720 uses more ink.

Quote:>: 4.  With common paper (Fabriano 80g/m2) the black ink is not dark like
>: the HP's one at 360dpi (I've compared with my old 500c): this because
>: the paper absorbes too much ink (I'll try other papers... if anybody
>: could give an advice, 'cos this way isn't possible to print perfectly
>: on both sides...). Anyway at 720 even on common paper the black
>: results are far darker and crisper than HP's (on special paper are
>: even darker than the LaserJet 4MV of my University!)
>Hmm, I doubt it unless it has pigment based black ink too like the
>850.
>Matt Pierce
>Speaking for myself and not HP.

A note: I always bought HP before this Epson and I always found great
products, so I'm not saying in any way that the 850 is bad: simply I'm
saying that Stylus Pro is a Very Good Printer! Sure not fast as the
850, but with a far better quality (anyway GREAT for the 850...).

Cheers,
 Gianluca Meardi

Speaking for myself and not EPSON