Preferred server problem

Preferred server problem

Post by Ed Jon » Sat, 05 Oct 1996 04:00:00



Hello,

We have the following file servers on our network.  

Total Novell Servers: 34

Type   Name                   Net    Address      Port Hops Interface
    4  IE_SERVER              14A.0000.0000.0001::0451  1  Ethernet6
    4  SCS-SRV1               60A.0000.0000.0001::0451  1  Ethernet4
    4  CAD-CAM             AAA064.0000.0000.0001::0451  2  Ethernet2
    4  BCK-SRV1               16B.0000.0000.0001::0451  2  Ethernet2
    4  LIB-SRV1                7B.0000.0000.0001::0451  2  Ethernet2
    4  ADM-SERVER              9A.0000.0000.0001::0451  2  Ethernet2
    4  ENG-SRV1               16A.0000.0000.0001::0451  2  Ethernet2

We are running version 9.1(12) GS Software.  The problem we have is that
the server that always shows up at the top of the list is IE_SERVER (25
Users). This server very frequently runs out of connections.  As I
understand it, the cisco handles preferred connections as described in
the Q&A at the end of note.  When IE_SERVER runs out of connections,
people on other networks cannot get to file servers that appear in the
list below IE_SERVER.  Is there anyway, at our version of the GS Software
to reorder the list of servers? How is the list sorted?  We have an AGS+
CSC3, and I don't believe we can upgrade our GS Software.

Thanks,
Ed Jones

Q: Does Cisco support Novell's "preferred server" command?

A: Sort of. The preferred server command on the Client is used like this:

1.The Client boots and sends a Get Nearest Server packet broadcast.
2.If there is no local Server, the router replies to this with the Server
which is top of the list (in 9.21 and later, top of the unsorted list).
3.The Client then sends a RIP request for the Server's internal network
number.
4.The Router replies with the hops and ticks to the network.
5.The Client opens an NCP session with the NearestServer.
6.The Client sends in a Bindery lookup to the NearestServer for the
Preferred Server.
7.The Client sends a RIP request for the Preferred Server.
8.The Client disconnects from NearestServer and connects to
PreferredServer.

NOTE: Clients can only attach to NetWare OS Devices, and only NetWare
devices can answer the Bindery lookup request. Cisco routers are not
NetWare devices, but we do route the NCP packets to the Nearest Server.

 
 
 

Preferred server problem

Post by Perry Moskaly » Tue, 08 Oct 1996 04:00:00


Hello, Yes I have run into the same problem in that the newest Novell
server on the block is always used by the cisco in response to a GNS. The
reason for this is that cisco figures that the newest server is the least
busy.

Anyway the way around the problem is to apply an IPX access list to the
interface without any novel servers. You can do it one of two ways the
first is to use an access-list deny of the IE_SERVER followed with a permit
anyone else  OR  to specify the IPX server(s) you want the router to use.
The first is administrative intensive if you have constant novell servers
being added to the network . The second is better but if the server(s)
being permitted are un-accessable then the device issuing the GNS will not
be able to get a connection.



> Hello,

> We have the following file servers on our network.  

> Total Novell Servers: 34

> Type   Name                   Net    Address      Port Hops Interface
>     4  IE_SERVER              14A.0000.0000.0001::0451  1  Ethernet6
>     4  SCS-SRV1               60A.0000.0000.0001::0451  1  Ethernet4
>     4  CAD-CAM             AAA064.0000.0000.0001::0451  2  Ethernet2
>     4  BCK-SRV1               16B.0000.0000.0001::0451  2  Ethernet2
>     4  LIB-SRV1                7B.0000.0000.0001::0451  2  Ethernet2
>     4  ADM-SERVER              9A.0000.0000.0001::0451  2  Ethernet2
>     4  ENG-SRV1               16A.0000.0000.0001::0451  2  Ethernet2

> We are running version 9.1(12) GS Software.  The problem we have is that
> the server that always shows up at the top of the list is IE_SERVER (25
> Users). This server very frequently runs out of connections.  As I
> understand it, the cisco handles preferred connections as described in
> the Q&A at the end of note.  When IE_SERVER runs out of connections,
> people on other networks cannot get to file servers that appear in the
> list below IE_SERVER.  Is there anyway, at our version of the GS Software
> to reorder the list of servers? How is the list sorted?  We have an AGS+
> CSC3, and I don't believe we can upgrade our GS Software.

> Thanks,
> Ed Jones

> Q: Does Cisco support Novell's "preferred server" command?

> A: Sort of. The preferred server command on the Client is used like this:

> 1.The Client boots and sends a Get Nearest Server packet broadcast.
> 2.If there is no local Server, the router replies to this with the Server
> which is top of the list (in 9.21 and later, top of the unsorted list).
> 3.The Client then sends a RIP request for the Server's internal network
> number.
> 4.The Router replies with the hops and ticks to the network.
> 5.The Client opens an NCP session with the NearestServer.
> 6.The Client sends in a Bindery lookup to the NearestServer for the
> Preferred Server.
> 7.The Client sends a RIP request for the Preferred Server.
> 8.The Client disconnects from NearestServer and connects to
> PreferredServer.

> NOTE: Clients can only attach to NetWare OS Devices, and only NetWare
> devices can answer the Bindery lookup request. Cisco routers are not
> NetWare devices, but we do route the NCP packets to the Nearest Server.


 
 
 

Preferred server problem

Post by Sukumar Subburaya » Tue, 08 Oct 1996 04:00:00


As you know, we answer GNS requests in 9.1 with the server which
appears at the top of the service table. To change which service is at
the top of th table, yo u can either filter that service out completely
with an input-sap-filter (then no one would be able to access that
srver thro' this router), or you can define a static SAP for the
service you want to appear at the top of the table.  To do this, give
that static SAP a lower hop count than the srver which is at the top of
the table for that srvice type. Or, make the server which is at the
topy of the list lower down in the table by defining a static SAP for
that service which makes its hop count farther away.

In your situation, you would have the following static sap for
IE_SERVER (in the global configuration command) as:

novell sap 4 IE_SERVER 14A.0000.0000.0001 451 2

This will put SCS-SRV1 in top of the list.

Hope this helps. Please let me know if this works for you.

Sukumar

Hello,

We have the following file servers on our network.  

Total Novell Servers: 34

Type   Name                   Net    Address      Port Hops Interface
    4  IE_SERVER              14A.0000.0000.0001::0451  1  Ethernet6
    4  SCS-SRV1               60A.0000.0000.0001::0451  1  Ethernet4
    4  CAD-CAM             AAA064.0000.0000.0001::0451  2  Ethernet2
    4  BCK-SRV1               16B.0000.0000.0001::0451  2  Ethernet2
    4  LIB-SRV1                7B.0000.0000.0001::0451  2  Ethernet2
    4  ADM-SERVER              9A.0000.0000.0001::0451  2  Ethernet2
    4  ENG-SRV1               16A.0000.0000.0001::0451  2  Ethernet2

We are running version 9.1(12) GS Software.  The problem we have is that
the server that always shows up at the top of the list is IE_SERVER (25
Users). This server very frequently runs out of connections.  As I
understand it, the cisco handles preferred connections as described in
the Q&A at the end of note.  When IE_SERVER runs out of connections,
people on other networks cannot get to file servers that appear in the
list below IE_SERVER.  Is there anyway, at our version of the GS Software
to reorder the list of servers? How is the list sorted?  We have an AGS+
CSC3, and I don't believe we can upgrade our GS Software.

Thanks,
Ed Jones

Q: Does Cisco support Novell's "preferred server" command?

A: Sort of. The preferred server command on the Client is used like this:

1.The Client boots and sends a Get Nearest Server packet broadcast.
2.If there is no local Server, the router replies to this with the Server
which is top of the list (in 9.21 and later, top of the unsorted list).
3.The Client then sends a RIP request for the Server's internal network
number.
4.The Router replies with the hops and ticks to the network.
5.The Client opens an NCP session with the NearestServer.
6.The Client sends in a Bindery lookup to the NearestServer for the
Preferred Server.
7.The Client sends a RIP request for the Preferred Server.
8.The Client disconnects from NearestServer and connects to
PreferredServer.

NOTE: Clients can only attach to NetWare OS Devices, and only NetWare
devices can answer the Bindery lookup request. Cisco routers are not
NetWare devices, but we do route the NCP packets to the Nearest Server.

----- End Included Message -----

 
 
 

Preferred server problem

Post by Bill Che » Tue, 08 Oct 1996 04:00:00


I have a similar problem. But the server I want moved lower in the
table is a Netware 2.15 server. The hop count increase trick doesn't
seem to work for these machines. Filtering is not a good possible,
since there are users who do need to get to the server across the
router. I noticed that the route 'ticks' is 1 for this server. Can
this be increased? Any other ideas? Thanks.

- Bill

>   Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 13:18:48 -0700

>   As you know, we answer GNS requests in 9.1 with the server which
>   appears at the top of the service table. To change which service is at
>   the top of th table, yo u can either filter that service out completely
>   with an input-sap-filter (then no one would be able to access that
>   srver thro' this router), or you can define a static SAP for the
>   service you want to appear at the top of the table.  To do this, give
>   that static SAP a lower hop count than the srver which is at the top of
>   the table for that srvice type. Or, make the server which is at the
>   topy of the list lower down in the table by defining a static SAP for
>   that service which makes its hop count farther away.

>   In your situation, you would have the following static sap for
>   IE_SERVER (in the global configuration command) as:

>   novell sap 4 IE_SERVER 14A.0000.0000.0001 451 2

>   This will put SCS-SRV1 in top of the list.

>   Hope this helps. Please let me know if this works for you.

>   Sukumar

 
 
 

Preferred server problem

Post by Bruce Pinsk » Tue, 08 Oct 1996 04:00:00


Quote:Perry Moskalyk writes:

==>Hello, Yes I have run into the same problem in that the newest Novell
==>server on the block is always used by the cisco in response to a GNS. The
==>reason for this is that cisco figures that the newest server is the least
==>busy.
==>
==>Anyway the way around the problem is to apply an IPX access list to the
==>interface without any novel servers. You can do it one of two ways the
==>first is to use an access-list deny of the IE_SERVER followed with a permit
==>anyone else  OR  to specify the IPX server(s) you want the router to use.
==>The first is administrative intensive if you have constant novell servers
==>being added to the network . The second is better but if the server(s)
==>being permitted are un-accessable then the device issuing the GNS will not
==>be able to get a connection.
==>

But the real right answer is to upgrade a newer version of software that
supports GNS round-robin and GNS response filtering.

+-------------------------+-----------------------+---------------------------+
+      ||        ||       +                       + Bruce Pinsky              +
+      ||        ||       + Cisco Systems, Inc.   + Sr. Internetwork Supt Engr+
+     ||||      ||||      + 170 West Tasman Drive + Phone: (800) 553-24HR     +
+ ..:||||||:..:||||||:..  + San Jose, CA  95134   + Fax:   (408) 232-2374     +

+-------------------------+-----------------------+---------------------------+
|                 ** The Science of Networking Networks **                    |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

 
 
 

Preferred server problem

Post by Blaine D. Bau » Wed, 09 Oct 1996 04:00:00



Quote:

>I have a similar problem. But the server I want moved lower in the
>table is a Netware 2.15 server. The hop count increase trick doesn't
>seem to work for these machines. Filtering is not a good possible,
>since there are users who do need to get to the server across the
>router. I noticed that the route 'ticks' is 1 for this server. Can
>this be increased? Any other ideas? Thanks.

What you need in this case is an output-gns-filter,e.g.

interface e 0/0
 ipx output-gns-filter 1001
access-list 1001 permit FFFFFFFF.0000.0000.0001

This is sort of a simple one, but basically it will allow only 3.x or
4.x servers (servers with internal network numbers). Unfortunately,
you'll have to put the output filter on every interface. It also works
to block out Windows 95 server adverti*ts, which also cause problems.

Blaine Bauer                   Opinions do not necessarily reflect
CNE, CCIE#1499                 the opinions of Intel Corporation
Intel Corporation
Beaverton, Oregon USA

 
 
 

Preferred server problem

Post by Sam Wilso » Wed, 09 Oct 1996 04:00:00


Quote:> As you know, we answer GNS requests in 9.1 with the server which
> appears at the top of the service table. To change which service is at
> the top of th table, yo u can either filter that service out completely
> with an input-sap-filter (then no one would be able to access that
> srver thro' this router)...

Just to quibble, filtering the server out completely doesn't generally
make it impossible to reach that server - as is made clear in the Q&A
that was attached to the message (difficult to tell who it originated
with) clients don't use SAPs to get to particular server, they talk to
the 'nearest' server and interrogate its bindery.  We did find one
exception to this which we didn't investigate - HP Jet Direct printers
seem to need to see SAPs for the server which prrovides their print
queue.

Quote:> Q: Does Cisco support Novell's "preferred server" command?

> A: Sort of. The preferred server command on the Client is used like this:

> 1.The Client boots and sends a Get Nearest Server packet broadcast.
> 2.If there is no local Server, the router replies to this with the Server
> which is top of the list (in 9.21 and later, top of the unsorted list).
> 3.The Client then sends a RIP request for the Server's internal network
> number.
> 4.The Router replies with the hops and ticks to the network.
> 5.The Client opens an NCP session with the NearestServer.
> 6.The Client sends in a Bindery lookup to the NearestServer for the
> Preferred Server.
> 7.The Client sends a RIP request for the Preferred Server.
> 8.The Client disconnects from NearestServer and connects to
> PreferredServer.

> NOTE: Clients can only attach to NetWare OS Devices, and only NetWare
> devices can answer the Bindery lookup request. Cisco routers are not
> NetWare devices, but we do route the NCP packets to the Nearest Server.

Sam Wilson
Network Services Division
Computing Services, The University of Edinburgh
Edinburgh, Scotland, UK
 
 
 

Preferred server problem

Post by Ed Jon » Wed, 09 Oct 1996 04:00:00


Thanks to all who responded.  Setting the hop value up seems to have been

As you know, we answer GNS requests in 9.1 with the server which appears
at the top of the service table. To change which service is at the top of
th table, you can either filter that service out completely with an
input-sap-filter (then no one would be able to access that srver thro'
this router), or you can define a static SAP for the service you want to
appear at the top of the table. To do this, give that static SAP a lower
hop count than the server which is at the top of the table for that
service type. Or, make the server which is at the topy of the list lower
down in the table by defining a static SAP for that service which makes
its hop count farther away.

In your situation, you would have the following static sap for IE_SERVER
(in the global configuration command) as:

novell sap 4 IE_SERVER 14A.0000.0000.0001 451 2

This will put SCS-SRV1 in top of the list.

Hope this helps. Please let me know if this works for you.

Sukumar

 
 
 

Preferred server problem

Post by KRATOCHVIL.KEIT » Wed, 09 Oct 1996 04:00:00


I spent many hours working on this problem back in the 9.17(X) code of the
7000s.  The solution that Sukumar suggests is about the only thing you can do
in this code base.  Since we have a very large Novell server base, 200+
servers, we'd get hit all the time by someone bringing up a 2 user license
"test" server and a few thousand users were thrown at the server.

At that time, we handled the situation by bringing up a 1000 user 4.0 Novell
server just for the purpose of handling initial GNS requests.  We did this by
forcing all "known" servers to be two hops away while our GNS server was one
hop away.  This has several advantages/disadvantages:

- 4.X servers don't allocate a "license" for these initial attachments,
although I believe you need to have your clients configured with a "preferred
server" statement to have the "non-licensed" connection.

- You're suspect to someone bringing up a new server, without telling you, and
therefore you don't have a static SAP forcing it to be advertised as an
additional hop.

If you're willing to upgrade to newer code, at least 10.0(X), you then have a
number of things you can do:

- build GNS filters by using the following commands:

   ipx output-gns-filter 10XX       **on the physical interface**
   access-list 10XX permit 14A.0000.0000.0001 4   **standard IPX ACL**

- you can also use the "ipx gns-round-robin" command to answer GNS requests in
a "round robin" fashion, using those servers in your list.

Some things to watch out for in this case:

- GNS requests are only answered with servers of the same "cost" (in IPX
terms, this is really only hops and possibly "ticks", although I don't think
they come into play with SAPs and GNS).  So, if you have 5 file servers with
server A being 1 hop away and servers B, C, D, and E being two hops away, all
GNS requests will be answered with server A.  If it goes away, the others will
be used as they're now the "best".  Note, this is even true in the case of
"round robin".

- Your filter is based upon interal IPX network numbers of the servers.
Keeping your ACL up to date becomes critical!

- Be careful of the "deny all" aspect of ACLs, if you're not careful, you'll
deny all GNS requests for other types of services other than type 4.  (For
instance, an RCONSOLE client does a GNS for 107 when it initializes.)

Additionally, since NDS aware clients are no longer interested in type 4
services (they're interested in type 278 services) you may need to change your
ACL a little for 4.X clients.

If someone is interested in more detail regarding setting up the GNS filters,
I'd be glad to provide samples off-line from the list.

Thanks,

     Keith G. Kratochvil                           ________________________
     The Principal Financial Group                 o the                 /
     IS Network Administration                     o     Principal    /
     711 High Street                               o Financial     /
     Des Moines, IA 50392-2570                     o Group      /
     Phone:  (515) 248-8266                        o         /
     FAX:  (515) 247-5930                          o      /

                                                   o/
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-----------------------( Forwarded letter follows )--------------------------

Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 13:18:48 -0700



Subject: Re: Preferred server problem

As you know, we answer GNS requests in 9.1 with the server which
appears at the top of the service table. To change which service is at
the top of th table, yo u can either filter that service out completely
with an input-sap-filter (then no one would be able to access that
srver thro' this router), or you can define a static SAP for the
service you want to appear at the top of the table.  To do this, give
that static SAP a lower hop count than the srver which is at the top of
the table for that srvice type. Or, make the server which is at the
topy of the list lower down in the table by defining a static SAP for
that service which makes its hop count farther away.

In your situation, you would have the following static sap for
IE_SERVER (in the global configuration command) as:

novell sap 4 IE_SERVER 14A.0000.0000.0001 451 2

This will put SCS-SRV1 in top of the list.

Hope this helps. Please let me know if this works for you.

Sukumar

Hello,

We have the following file servers on our network.

Total Novell Servers: 34

Type   Name                   Net    Address      Port Hops Interface
    4  IE_SERVER              14A.0000.0000.0001::0451  1  Ethernet6
    4  SCS-SRV1               60A.0000.0000.0001::0451  1  Ethernet4
    4  CAD-CAM             AAA064.0000.0000.0001::0451  2  Ethernet2
    4  BCK-SRV1               16B.0000.0000.0001::0451  2  Ethernet2
    4  LIB-SRV1                7B.0000.0000.0001::0451  2  Ethernet2
    4  ADM-SERVER              9A.0000.0000.0001::0451  2  Ethernet2
    4  ENG-SRV1               16A.0000.0000.0001::0451  2  Ethernet2

We are running version 9.1(12) GS Software.  The problem we have is that
the server that always shows up at the top of the list is IE_SERVER (25
Users). This server very frequently runs out of connections.  As I
understand it, the cisco handles preferred connections as described in
the Q&A at the end of note.  When IE_SERVER runs out of connections,
people on other networks cannot get to file servers that appear in the
list below IE_SERVER.  Is there anyway, at our version of the GS Software
to reorder the list of servers? How is the list sorted?  We have an AGS+
CSC3, and I don't believe we can upgrade our GS Software.

Thanks,
Ed Jones

Q: Does Cisco support Novell's "preferred server" command?

A: Sort of. The preferred server command on the Client is used like this:

1.The Client boots and sends a Get Nearest Server packet broadcast.
2.If there is no local Server, the router replies to this with the Server
which is top of the list (in 9.21 and later, top of the unsorted list).
3.The Client then sends a RIP request for the Server's internal network
number.
4.The Router replies with the hops and ticks to the network.
5.The Client opens an NCP session with the NearestServer.
6.The Client sends in a Bindery lookup to the NearestServer for the
Preferred Server.
7.The Client sends a RIP request for the Preferred Server.
8.The Client disconnects from NearestServer and connects to
PreferredServer.

NOTE: Clients can only attach to NetWare OS Devices, and only NetWare
devices can answer the Bindery lookup request. Cisco routers are not
NetWare devices, but we do route the NCP packets to the Nearest Server.

----- End Included Message -----

 
 
 

Preferred server problem

Post by Don Helm » Wed, 09 Oct 1996 04:00:00



> Just to quibble, filtering the server out completely doesn't generally
> make it impossible to reach that server - as is made clear in the Q&A
> that was attached to the message (difficult to tell who it originated
> with) clients don't use SAPs to get to particular server, they talk to
> the 'nearest' server and interrogate its bindery.  We did find one
> exception to this which we didn't investigate - HP Jet Direct printers
> seem to need to see SAPs for the server which prrovides their print
> queue.

Has anyone done any investigation.  We've been installing about 600 of
these
puppies and are having trouble getting them all to show up in the HP
admin
software -yes, we're working w/ HP this also ;-)

Anyway, the sniffer shows HP Admin doing a 'get nearest print server'
request
which my 7000's running 10.3.11 completely ignore.  It'll talk to a
novell
server but not a cisco.  Finally it moves on to some sort of IPX SNMP to
get the needed info.

Anyone got any insights or suggestions?  Thanks.

-Don

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don Helms
Std. Disclaimer: All opinions expressed are my own and are opinions
only, etc.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------