Microsoft and ESRI

Microsoft and ESRI

Post by Martin Brehovsk » Sat, 13 Mar 1999 04:00:00



Hello all,

I have just read, that ESRI is going to support Microsoft's COM in
ARC/INFO 8. This is very bad news for all of us, who are working
with any other operating systems than Microsoft Windows.
Why they didn't choose CORBA ? It is much better designed
ystem and is platform INDEPENDENT (as opposite to M$ COM).

Looks like ESRI is going to be MS only developer ...

Martin

--
------------------------------------------------------------------

Department of Mathematics, Section of Geomatics
Faculty of Applied Sciences, University of West Bohemia
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Microsoft and ESRI

Post by Peter Hall » Sat, 13 Mar 1999 04:00:00



> Hello all,

> I have just read, that ESRI is going to support Microsoft's COM in
> ARC/INFO 8. This is very bad news for all of us, who are working
> with any other operating systems than Microsoft Windows.
> Why they didn't choose CORBA ? It is much better designed
> ystem and is platform INDEPENDENT (as opposite to M$ COM).

> Looks like ESRI is going to be MS only developer ...

> Martin

I'd heard that there was an intention to make Arc/Info run in a native
mode on NT ... but that this was not to exclude UNIX.  David Maguire
announced an NT development mode for Arc/Info last year that would require
tight coupling with the OS - maybe this is why COM.  I can see why it
would be advantageous for NT users to have such a facility.  Maguire said
this was a parallel development to the UNIX product.

The important question is whether Microsoft have managed to persuade ESRI
to abandon their cross-platform approach.  If so, then I agree that this
is extremely bad news indeed, but does not square with Maguire's product
development statement.  

There was also the 'hint' that was given that ESRI would review its
decision not to support LINUX if there were indications of an adequate
market to justify the effort.  LINUX, surely, is the competitor to NT for
Intel platforms ...

Peter

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Microsoft and ESRI

Post by David Alle » Sat, 13 Mar 1999 04:00:00


Hi,

First, let me say I am defiantly NOT an M$ brain-washed drone following the
masses.  Computers, OSs, and the like simple are not religious matters to
me.  I use what I think is the best tool for the job.  If that means using
Billware because I can sell a million more copies of my software, then so be
it.  If my customer runs LINUX, I build on LINUX.

I just don't understand all the anti-Microsoft attitude.  Maybe because I am
a developer and the idea of a single universal OS means I only have to write
one version of a program rather than a bunch of hacked up #IFDEFed code that
will compile and run on different machines.  And I only have to verify it
once.

As for CORBA, it is hardly platform independent.  A CORBA application code
may compile on any machine but the actual executable must be build for
target machines, each one tested, and you still get the IFDEF junk.  Then
don't forget the ORB which is certainly platform specific.  Yea, the vendor
may choose to create an ORB for several platforms but again, they all have
to be tested.  Having used both CORBA and COM, I must admit I like COM
better.

I grew up in the mainframe world, lived through the minis and now I use a
micro.  The PC I am using right now has more power than many of those older
"bigger" machines.  So Bill Gates is running the OS show.  Personally, I
LIKE being able to go down to Kmart and buy top line applications.  I LIKE
being able to surf any number of sites and pull shareware/freeware/demos
that run.

Ok, I back down of my soap box now.

My ideal system runs a database off a fast server (UNIX, NT, whatever) and
the apps run on my desktop so I can use all the nifty desktop apps that are
available on a Wintel machine.

Your mileage may vary,

-David Allen


>Hello all,

>I have just read, that ESRI is going to support Microsoft's COM in
>ARC/INFO 8. This is very bad news for all of us, who are working
>with any other operating systems than Microsoft Windows.
>Why they didn't choose CORBA ? It is much better designed
>ystem and is platform INDEPENDENT (as opposite to M$ COM).

>Looks like ESRI is going to be MS only developer ...

>Martin

>--
>------------------------------------------------------------------

>Department of Mathematics, Section of Geomatics
>Faculty of Applied Sciences, University of West Bohemia
>------------------------------------------------------------------

 
 
 

Microsoft and ESRI

Post by Stefan Kampshof » Sat, 13 Mar 1999 04:00:00


Better news from Smallworld...

Some days ago on the SWUG-meeting in germany I spoke to
some people from SMALLWORLD Headquaters (Cambridge).
They do/will support both worlds, OLE/COM and CORBA.
In addition they are seriously thinking
about a LINUX !!! Version.

Stefan

  stefan.vcf
< 1K Download
 
 
 

Microsoft and ESRI

Post by Richard Finne » Sat, 13 Mar 1999 04:00:00


ESRI bows before Bill Gates because he owns a monopoly.  It works like
this ...  ESRI guys think "Gee, programming windows is a hassle, let's
go with some easier open systems approach".  Microsoft gets wind
of this and some Microsoft VP meets the ESRI head honchos and says
"We're going to make our own GIS Package - Microsoft Map !" and
the ESRI guys freak and say "No, No, No, please don't".  So the
Microsoft guy says "Well, gee, you know if you integrated it
into Microsoft Explorer and used COM and wrote it in Visual Basic,
then maybe we could not do our own GIS package".  You figure out
the rest.
-rfinney
 
 
 

Microsoft and ESRI

Post by David Valentin » Sat, 13 Mar 1999 04:00:00



> ESRI bows before Bill Gates because he owns a monopoly.

Because everyone said "when will Arc be out  NT?"
Then there were those who said, "ni"
 
 
 

Microsoft and ESRI

Post by Dominic Stubbin » Sun, 14 Mar 1999 04:00:00


I believe AI8 will still be multi-platform for most of its components.  I
think the COM components are used for the new desktop applications which
will act as a user friendly front end to the underlying Arc8 functionality,
either on the same machine or a remote server (which may not be windows
machine), Arc8 may also include some Java Bean components.  This approach
makes sense, particularly when you consider the fact that ESRI will still be
supporting multi platform DBMS's such as ORACLE etc for the data storing and
serving through SDE and also for AI8 in its server mode.  Whether people
like it or not MS and windows provide an easy platform for developing
graphical software and providing a standard interface for users which can
integrate tightly into other applications within the business workflow.  The
esri strategy seems to be moving much more to a client-server architecture,
with support for multi-platform DBMS's and SDE allowing access to the
enterprise data on whatever server platform, but providing 'user friendly'
clients that support windows on the desktop and can be enhanced using
standard programming languages such as VB (I wonder what the ratio of VB:AML
programmers is!).  This seems to be following the general trend in the IT
industry as a whole.

Dom


>Hello all,

>I have just read, that ESRI is going to support Microsoft's COM in
>ARC/INFO 8. This is very bad news for all of us, who are working
>with any other operating systems than Microsoft Windows.
>Why they didn't choose CORBA ? It is much better designed
>ystem and is platform INDEPENDENT (as opposite to M$ COM).

>Looks like ESRI is going to be MS only developer ...

>Martin

>--
>------------------------------------------------------------------

>Department of Mathematics, Section of Geomatics
>Faculty of Applied Sciences, University of West Bohemia
>------------------------------------------------------------------

 
 
 

Microsoft and ESRI

Post by Jamie Cruis » Tue, 16 Mar 1999 04:00:00


Quote:>Most people talk about the "monopoly" issue as being as to why anti-M$
>sentiments are so prevalent.  As a programmer, this does bother me but
there's
>a more fundamental, aesthetic consideration - Microsoft develop *
products
>and *technologies.  They offend by sensibilities as a software
engineer.
>Sure the stuff looks glitzy and is apparently "user friendly" but in terms
of
>software design it leaves much to be desired.

Microsoft develop a lot of technologies, some excellent (e.g. IE, COM/DCOM,
ATL), some good (e.g. NT, Office), some good enough (VB,'98), some poor
(e.g. various image editors, media managers etc.) and some evil (e.g. find
fast).

I would be interested in your fundamental software 'aesthetic'. A
philosophical approach to software design and engineering is to be
applauded, but I fear your rant doesn't extend substantially beyond the
predictable UNIX advocacy. Personally, 'vi' offends my sensibilities - so
what?

Quote:

>I think you completely miss the point with CORBA.  The whole idea of CORBA
is
>that it allows you to develop software for a mixed-architecture system.  I
>don't mean little gadgets or standalone apps.  CORBA allows objects running
>on different systems to communicate.  For example, you may have a database
>processing business object on your server and an application that talks to
>this business object running on a client PC.  The server could be a grunty
>Alpha running UNIX and the client running Windows.  You see, you are
>developing completely different code for both platforms.  CORBA is the
means
>for binding the system, server and client, together.  I don't understand
how
>your comment about "IFDEF junk" is relevant to the discussion - I wonder if
>you have any idea what you're talking about.

He say "I tried both a and b, and preferred b", you then gave us a trite run
down of distributed systems. I think those interested at this stage probably
new this much. The point that was originally made is that whilst COM is
essentially a proprietary technology, it has a very broad appeal and
deployment potentential. UNIX, CORBA et al are promoted as the vanguard of
'Open Systems', but historically  (and still in practice) there are many
obstactles to overcome when trying to implement cross-platform solutions on
UNIX (such as binary incompatibility, proprietary extensions to the
architecture, cost etc). I am not suggesting that UNIX is not the way to go,
just that it is no more a silver bullet than Wintel.

Quote:>Umm, yeah, whatever.  "nifty desktop apps" <smirk>.

You don't seem to have a great deal of respect for others opinions...

Quote:>Personally, I find the
>collection of tools bundled with just about any Linux, FreeBSD, *NIX or
>downloadable from the 'net hard to beat.  Yeah, some of it's a bit
esoteric,
>some of it requires a bit of Makefile bashing but maybe that's why I'm a
>programmer?

"Personally" is the operative word here. Apart from the fact that many
"real" programmers prefer Visual Studio to Emacs and GCC, I am forced to
state the bleedin' obvious:

    This business is not run for programmers. This business is not run by
programmers.

I am sure that your opinion is valued and valuable, it simply may not be
shared by others (myself included).

regards J

 
 
 

Microsoft and ESRI

Post by David Alle » Tue, 16 Mar 1999 04:00:00


Hi,

This guy sounds like he recently graduated and is just dangerous enough to
blow his foot clean off.

A few more years in "The Real World" and he might understand.

-David Allen