packet writing SW - a few general questions

packet writing SW - a few general questions

Post by Stuart Summervill » Fri, 04 Jul 2003 00:51:29



I've just gotten into packet writing of CDRWs, and finding myself back
in usenet looking for answers... (yes, I did read the FAQ & other ref
info)...

- Why do the different packet writing tools seem to be so incompatible
with each other? Is there a problem getting all involved on the same
wavelength?

- Is there one PW tool or standard that looks to be taking over as the
* or most popular one?

- Is there any OS that can properly write PW CDRW natively, un such a
way that the incompatibilities between Roxio & INCD etc are eliminated?

- Why doesn't Win XP or even 2K have built in support for this? Is it
THAT new a technology?

- I've been using INCD that came with my LG CDRW drive. I find it rather
strange (yet not impossible) that this technology is so immature that in
order for anyone else to read that CD, they must have a custom driver
installed on their machine. How then does one read that data on a
machine they don't have admin rights to?

- Can the driver installed on reader machines to access the PW CDRW data
cause any problems when reading regular CDR CDs? or other CDRW ones?

- We just had some major "fun" trying to get a packet written CDRW disc
of mine read by some CDROM drives at a friends place. It seems
reasonable that the older drives couldn't cope - but one was a 52x - is
that not recent enough to be able to read such a disc?

Heck... I even had my own machine (that wrote the disc) tell me that it
was in a foreign format (on re-insertion), and that I'd need to install
the driver to read it. Reinserted the disc, & it then worked fine.

Crikey, I thought the whole buffer underrun problem with older CDR
drives was bad enough - little did I know what hassles were ahead of me.
Grrrr...

sTu.

 
 
 

packet writing SW - a few general questions

Post by Stuart Summervill » Fri, 04 Jul 2003 01:16:05



Quote:> - Why do the different packet writing tools seem to be so incompatible
> with each other? Is there a problem getting all involved on the same
> wavelength?

Isn't UDF supposed to pull all these software efforts together - so all
are talking the same language?

sTu.

 
 
 

packet writing SW - a few general questions

Post by Graham Mayo » Fri, 04 Jul 2003 01:25:15


The two market leaders InCD and Direct CD are largely compatible with one
another now, but such is the flaky nature of packet formats generally, this
is not much consolation. Many contributors here have long since abandoned
packet formats, because we like our data to be still available when we want
to access it in the future. Use ISO multisessions instead!

--
<>>< ><<> ><<>
 Graham Mayor
<>>< ><<> ><<>



>> - Why do the different packet writing tools seem to be so
>> incompatible with each other? Is there a problem getting all
>> involved on the same wavelength?

> Isn't UDF supposed to pull all these software efforts together - so
> all are talking the same language?

> sTu.

 
 
 

packet writing SW - a few general questions

Post by Kami » Fri, 04 Jul 2003 02:22:54



>The two market leaders InCD and Direct CD are largely compatible with one
>another now, but such is the flaky nature of packet formats generally, this
>is not much consolation. Many contributors here have long since abandoned
>packet formats, because we like our data to be still available when we want
>to access it in the future. Use ISO multisessions instead!

What is *ISO*?

Kami

--
email to furpods at mindspring dot com

 
 
 

packet writing SW - a few general questions

Post by Kami » Fri, 04 Jul 2003 02:23:22



>- Why do the different packet writing tools seem to be so incompatible
>with each other? Is there a problem getting all involved on the same
>wavelength?

I recently posted the same comment.

Kami

--
email to furpods at mindspring dot com

 
 
 

packet writing SW - a few general questions

Post by Mike Richte » Fri, 04 Jul 2003 02:43:47



> The two market leaders InCD and Direct CD are largely compatible with one
> another now, but such is the flaky nature of packet formats generally, this
> is not much consolation. Many contributors here have long since abandoned
> packet formats, because we like our data to be still available when we want
> to access it in the future. Use ISO multisessions instead!

Just to add the obvious: DCD also write variable-length packets; InCD
does not. They do not have the weaknesses of fixed-length.

Mike
--

http://www.mrichter.com/

 
 
 

packet writing SW - a few general questions

Post by Mike Richte » Fri, 04 Jul 2003 02:44:38




>>The two market leaders InCD and Direct CD are largely compatible with one
>>another now, but such is the flaky nature of packet formats generally, this
>>is not much consolation. Many contributors here have long since abandoned
>>packet formats, because we like our data to be still available when we want
>>to access it in the future. Use ISO multisessions instead!

> What is *ISO*?

International Standards Organization.

Please see one of the usual references for information on formats: the
CD-R FAQ or the primer at my WWW stie.

Mike
--

http://www.mrichter.com/

 
 
 

packet writing SW - a few general questions

Post by smh » Fri, 04 Jul 2003 05:00:31


.           --------------------------------------
            Graham Mayor, were you also born with
            "Scam Artist" emblazoned on your face?
            --------------------------------------




> >> - Why do the different packet writing tools seem to be so
> >> incompatible with each other? Is there a problem getting all
> >> involved on the same wavelength?

> > Isn't UDF supposed to pull all these software efforts together - so
> > all are talking the same language?

> The two market leaders InCD and Direct CD are largely compatible with one
> another now, but such is the flaky nature of packet formats generally, this
> is not much consolation.

Isn't it about time you spell out the "flaky" nature of packet format?

===================================================================
From:    smh
Subject: Re: CDRW writer?
Date:    6/29/03


> The answer is to break away from the flaky world of packet writing and
> create multisession ISO data discs with Nero, which both machines should
> be able to read and write (with Nero) - whether you use CDR or RW discs.

Isn't it about time you respond to this?

------------------------------
From:    Edward W. Thompson
Subject: Re: Nero InCD 3.2 vs WinXP CD Writer software (roxio)
Date:    2/22/02


> You are thinking of replacing a relatively secure filing system,
> with a less stable one, simply to allow you to delete individual
> files from a rewritable disc?

If one accepts the statement that UDF is insecure, (I assume that is
what is meant by "less stable") it would be absurd to use it.
Although I have seen many statements to the effect that data has been
lost on UDF disks I have not had that experience over the past 4 to 5
years.  Most statement criticizing UDF are linked to long term data
storage.  I don't use CD-RW media for long term storage only short
term therefore if it is true that data can be lost over time, that
does not bother me.

I have yet to see any proof that data written to UDF is any less secure
than to any other magnetic or optical media either in short or long
term.  Further, I am surprised that reputable manufacturers would market
the CD-RW system if it could be shown it was inherently unreliable.
------------------------------
===================================================================

 
 
 

packet writing SW - a few general questions

Post by smh » Fri, 04 Jul 2003 05:01:32


.           --------------------------------------
            Graham Mayor, were you also born with
            "Scam Artist" emblazoned on your face?
            --------------------------------------


> ... but such is the flaky nature of packet formats generally, this
> is not much consolation. Many contributors here have long since abandoned
> packet formats, because we like our data to be still available when we want
> to access it in the future.

The supposedly flaky, fragile, forgetful, unreliable cd-rw media was
good enough for BACKUP, of all things, even when combined with
supposedly flaky, fragile, faulty, unreliable packet "format":

        =====================
        From:    Mike Richter (Acraptec Shill)
        Subject: A note on Take Two
        Date:    9/1/99

        You may  back up ...to a DCD-formatted erasable.
        =====================

 
 
 

packet writing SW - a few general questions

Post by smh » Fri, 04 Jul 2003 05:02:24


.           --------------------------------------
            Graham Mayor, were you also born with
            "Scam Artist" emblazoned on your face?
            --------------------------------------




> >> - Why do the different packet writing tools seem to be so
> >> incompatible with each other? Is there a problem getting all
> >> involved on the same wavelength?

> > Isn't UDF supposed to pull all these software efforts together - so
> > all are talking the same language?

> The two market leaders InCD and Direct CD are largely compatible with one
> another now, but such is the flaky nature of packet formats generally, this
> is not much consolation.

What has market share got to do with conformance to the UDF standard?

Do the market leaders set the UDF standard, just being the market
leaders?

 
 
 

packet writing SW - a few general questions

Post by smh » Fri, 04 Jul 2003 05:05:48


.           --------------------------------------
            Graham Mayor, were you also born with
            "Scam Artist" emblazoned on your face?
            --------------------------------------




> >> - Why do the different packet writing tools seem to be so
> >> incompatible with each other? Is there a problem getting all
> >> involved on the same wavelength?

> > Isn't UDF supposed to pull all these software efforts together - so
> > all are talking the same language?

> The two market leaders InCD and Direct CD are largely compatible with one
> another now...

===============================================
From:    smh
Subject: Re: InCD UDF vs Nero (Burning ROM) UDF
Date:    1/1/03

Graham Mayor wrote (1/1/03):

Quote:

> Recent versions of InCD and Direct CD produce compatible data formats.

Back to compatible, Mayor?

Graham Mayor, were you also born with "Scam Artist" emblazoned on your
face?

    ===============================
    From:    smh
    Subject: Re: Nero v Easy CD ???
    Date:    9/8/02

    Graham Mayor wrote (9/8/02):
    >
    > There's a supplementary application from Nero that provides
    > similar functionality - called InCD. Whether this will work or
    > not with your discs is anyone's guess. Certainly not if it is
    > a CDR disc, and only maybe if it is RW.

    It's now only "maybe" compatible, Graham Mayor?

        =====================
        From:    Graham Mayor
        Subject: Re: UDF
        Date:    9/7/02

        The two major UDF software packages are InCD and DirectCD.

        There is a good measure of compatibility between them.
        Discs formatted with one can be written to by the other and
        vice versa.
        =====================

        Graham Mayor, were you also born with "Scam Artist" emblazoned
        on your face?

    ===============================

===============================================

 
 
 

packet writing SW - a few general questions

Post by smh » Fri, 04 Jul 2003 05:06:29


.           --------------------------------------
            Graham Mayor, were you also born with
            "Scam Artist" emblazoned on your face?
            --------------------------------------




> >> - Why do the different packet writing tools seem to be so
> >> incompatible with each other? Is there a problem getting all
> >> involved on the same wavelength?

> > Isn't UDF supposed to pull all these software efforts together - so
> > all are talking the same language?

> The two market leaders InCD and Direct CD are largely compatible with one
> another now, but such is the flaky nature of packet formats generally, this
> is not much consolation.

How can InCD be compatible with DirectCD when DirectCD's are not
compatible even between themselves?

    ======================
    From:    Mike Richter (cRoxio Shill)
    Subject: Re: DirectCD on a different computer won't recognize CD
    Date:    3/2/03


    >
    > I have Direct CD both at home and work.  The other day I brought
    > home an "open" CD from work.
    >
    > I discovered that my CDR at home won't recognize the CD
    > automatically.

    If the two DCD versions are quite different, that may be enough.
    ======================

    No kidding!  DirectCD's are NOT compatible even to themselves!
                      ---------------------
                      cRoxio - What a Joke!
                      ---------------------

    ============================
    "S.V. Proff" wrote (3/4/03):
    >
    > I have version 5.20 at work and 5.01 at home of the Roxio project
    > manager.  I guess they must not be compatible...

    5.20 and 5.01 ???!!!

    Guess that's what Mikey meant by if two DCD versions are
    "quite different".

    That's some "quite different" for sure!
    ============================

Epilog:
-------

Mike Webb (JamesDad):

     "it's not just versions of DirectCD that don't talk to each other."

Mike Webb:

     "is there a different packet-writing program that can read
                a DirectCD-compatible UDF CD-RW?"

smh:

     "Tell me, how could there be DCD-compatibles
      when DCD are not compatible between themselves?"

 
 
 

packet writing SW - a few general questions

Post by smh » Fri, 04 Jul 2003 05:07:25


.           --------------------------------------
            Graham Mayor, were you also born with
            "Scam Artist" emblazoned on your face?
            --------------------------------------




> >> - Why do the different packet writing tools seem to be so
> >> incompatible with each other? Is there a problem getting all
> >> involved on the same wavelength?

> > Isn't UDF supposed to pull all these software efforts together - so
> > all are talking the same language?

> The two market leaders InCD and Direct CD are largely compatible with one
> another now, but such is the flaky nature of packet formats generally, this
> is not much consolation.

Would you believe the not-so-quite-different DirectCD incompatibility is
the result of DirectCD's compliance with, get this, the UDF standard?

=================================================================
From:    smh
Subject: Re: UDF/Packet Writing Compatibility: Need Your Feedback
Date:    3/6/03


Quote:

> As you now know, there is a standard for UDF, but not all "packet
> writing" software complies with it.

Is this what you get after DirectCD complied with the UDF standard,
Mikey?

    ======================
    From:    Mike Richter (cRoxio Shill)
    Subject: Re: DirectCD on a different computer won't recognize CD
    Date:    3/2/03


    >
    > I have Direct CD both at home and work.  The other day I brought
    > home an "open" CD from work.
    >
    > I discovered that my CDR at home won't recognize the CD
    > automatically.

    If the two DCD versions are quite different, that may be enough.
    ======================

    No kidding!  DirectCD's are NOT compatible even to themselves!
                      ---------------------
                      cRoxio - What a Joke!
                      ---------------------

    ============================
    "S.V. Proff" wrote (3/4/03):
    >
    > I have version 5.20 at work and 5.01 at home of the Roxio project
    > manager.  I guess they must not be compatible...

    5.20 and 5.01 ???!!!

    Guess that's what Mikey meant by if two DCD versions are "quite
    different".

    That's some "quite different" for sure!
    ============================
=================================================================

 
 
 

packet writing SW - a few general questions

Post by smh » Fri, 04 Jul 2003 05:15:42



> I've just gotten into packet writing of CDRWs, and finding myself back
> in usenet looking for answers... (yes, I did read the FAQ & other ref
> info)...

> - Why do the different packet writing tools seem to be so incompatible
> with each other? Is there a problem getting all involved on the same
> wavelength?

Here's one reason:

---------------------------------------------------------
Windows 2000 Cannot Read CD-R Discs Created with DirectCD

http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q268/0/94.ASP
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=KB;EN-US;Q268094
(Link by Robert King)

SYMPTOMS
Windows 2000 cannot read packet-written CD-R discs with metadata packets
that are recorded at non-page-aligned addresses.  This can prevent
Windows 2000 from reading CD-R discs that are created by using Adaptec
DirectCD.

CAUSE
Metadata packets are recorded at non-page-aligned addresses. The
Universal Disk Format file system (UDFS) expects all data (even
metadata) to be aligned at page boundaries.
---------------------------------------------------------

Note 1: The above may be the reason why Winxp's native udf reader can't
        read DirectCD formatted cd.

Note 2: Winxp's native udf reader reads InCD, DLA and InstantWrite
        formatted cd.

Note 3: The above may be one of the reasons why cRoxio reportedly fired
        the  ENTIRE  DirectCD development team last year.

 
 
 

packet writing SW - a few general questions

Post by smh » Fri, 04 Jul 2003 05:19:25



> I've just gotten into packet writing of CDRWs, and finding myself back
> in usenet looking for answers... (yes, I did read the FAQ & other ref
> info)...

> - Why do the different packet writing tools seem to be so incompatible
> with each other? Is there a problem getting all involved on the same
> wavelength?

Here's another reason:

=================================================================
From:    smh
Subject: Re: UDF/Packet Writing Compatibility: Need Your Feedback
Date:    3/6/03


Quote:

> As you now know, there is a standard for UDF, but not all "packet
> writing" software complies with it.

Is this what you get after DirectCD complied with the UDF standard,
Mikey?

    ======================
    From:    Mike Richter (cRoxio Shill)
    Subject: Re: DirectCD on a different computer won't recognize CD
    Date:    3/2/03


    >
    > I have Direct CD both at home and work.  The other day I brought
    > home an "open" CD from work.
    >
    > I discovered that my CDR at home won't recognize the CD
    > automatically.

    If the two DCD versions are quite different, that may be enough.
    ======================

    No kidding!  DirectCD's are NOT compatible even to themselves!
                      ---------------------
                      cRoxio - What a Joke!
                      ---------------------

    ============================
    "S.V. Proff" wrote (3/4/03):
    >
    > I have version 5.20 at work and 5.01 at home of the Roxio project
    > manager.  I guess they must not be compatible...

    5.20 and 5.01 ???!!!

    Guess that's what Mikey meant by if two DCD versions are "quite
    different".

    That's some "quite different" for sure!
    ============================
=================================================================

 
 
 

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