Philips CDD 2600 Users should read this

Philips CDD 2600 Users should read this

Post by Rud » Mon, 12 May 1997 04:00:00



Hi folks,

here are a few things to clear up the situation on the Philips CDD 2600
recorder.

1. Reading Digital Audio:

It can perfectly read digital audio! You have to reduce the speed to 2x
if you want to extract the audio data. (However the first part - about 20
min - of a CD CAN be red at 6x speed youll have to try... This is a
hardware related matter and probably wont be "fixed" with other firmware
if any should ever be available. If you need more detailed info on this
just tell me)

2. Packet Writing:
The Recorder is definitely capable of using this method! For now its
only a software related problem. This is a new standard and companies
will need some time to produce the right software.

Adaptec Direct CD:      The recorder will work together with the newest OEM
                        version of This particular software. The recorder is
                        now certified for this software and comes sometimes
                        even together with this product.
                        Firmware 1.07 WILL work fine!!!!
                        If you read anything different, then people use an
                        older version of Direct CD!!!!
                        Im not sure if Fimware 1.06 will work but I think
                        will....

Cequadrat Packet CD: This is another Packet CD writing software from the
                        German Company which makes WinONCD (one of the best
                        CD-R programs available). This Software will also
                        work together with CDD 2600 Firmware 1.07.

I dont know other Packet Writing software.

3. Firmware updates:

The latest official firmware for the Philips CDD 2600 is 1.07. There were
some firmware versions tested by Philips but none was officially
released! All CDD 2660 recorders which are built today do have this
firmware!!!!!

The Recorder has NO EEPROM, which means it can not be upgraded to another
firmware like for example the Yamaha recorders. The only way to apply a
new firmware would be to insert a new EPROM. Philips says that this can
not be done by end users and such a change would require service
technicians. Im not so sure about that... but one thing is sure: If you
remove this EPROM from its socket you will lose any Warranty!!!!!!!!

And as I said earlier there is no other firmware, so no need for an
update. All rumours concerning this update arose because an early version
of Adaptecs Direct cd stated it is necessary to have Firmware 1.11 for
the CDD 2600. This was an OEM or even a BETA release (Im not sure) and
probably an intentional misleading by Adaptec to find software pirates.
Blame Adaptec an DeirdreStraughan for that!!!

4. The recorder will work together with this Software Products!

Adaptec Easy CD PRO version 2.1

Adaptec CD Creator version 2.01.082 (upgrade from 2.01.081 available at
Adaptecs www site)

Cequadrat WinOnCD 3.0 with driver version 3.00.184.1 and above available
at www.cequadrat.com

Elektroson Gear 4.01 and 4.02 update available from 4.01 to 4.02 at
www.elektroson.com

Disk at Once Version 3.x for Windows 95/NT.

There are some software versions which are bundled with a specific
Products that dont work. For example the Easy CD version which comes
with a HP 6020 will not work with a Philips CDD 2600 even though the
devices are technically the same, because they do have different SCSI
Vendor Strings.

I dont know about other products, additions to this list are welcome!

These are the facts. All these things have been tested and/or been
confirmed by the companies.

Hope this will help someone out there... ;-)
If there are any further questions post a msg or mail me.


 
 
 

Philips CDD 2600 Users should read this

Post by Hans-Henning Lundber » Mon, 12 May 1997 04:00:00


Hi Rudy,

Thanks for your excellent information regarding Philips CDD 2600.

I have a question for an expert like you:

I have tried burning data to a 'Kodak Photo CD master disc'  on my CDD 2600
but the disc was rejected with an extended sense code of 'A5', meaning
'Application code conflict'.

Kodak uses these disks for photo CD's and they did something to the discs
to prevent normal burners from writing them. I have heard of non-Kodak
burners
that actually COULD burn the Kodak discs. So it CAN be done.

I can without any problem read that kind of discs, but I cannot write to a
blank
Kodak Photo CD master disc' myself.

I'm asking this as I can buy the 'master discs' at half the price of normal
CD-R's.

Is there some way I can use my CDD 2600 to burn the KODAK media ?

Best regards

Hans-Henning

 
 
 

Philips CDD 2600 Users should read this

Post by MOPIREL » Tue, 13 May 1997 04:00:00



>1. Reading Digital Audio:

>It can perfectly read digital audio! You have to reduce the speed to 2x
>if you want to extract the audio data. (However the first part - about 20
>min - of a CD CAN be red at 6x speed youll have to try...

My experience is not the same. Some tracks I read out with ToGo show cracks or
dropouts, some do not. It depends on the CD.

(Or do you mean the the physical location of the track on the disc ???) - if I
check my bad recordings that could be right ...

Greetings,

Mopirelli (located in 'Ruhrpott', Germany)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Machine non-readable e-mail address:

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Philips CDD 2600 Users should read this

Post by Kri » Wed, 14 May 1997 04:00:00



>I dont know about other products, additions to this list are welcome!

One point you missed out is that the CDD-2600 won't work as a CD
reader under raw Dos 6.22. I couldn't believe this but my supplier and
the Philips Professional Lounges all now confirm this 'bug' - sorry I
mean 'feature'.

                                 Kris
--
"Every Solution breeds a new calamity"
--

 
 
 

Philips CDD 2600 Users should read this

Post by Rud » Thu, 15 May 1997 04:00:00



Quote:> Hi Rudy,

> Thanks for your excellent information regarding Philips CDD 2600.

> I have a question for an expert like you:

> I have tried burning data to a 'Kodak Photo CD master disc'  on my CDD 2600
> but the disc was rejected with an extended sense code of 'A5', meaning
> 'Application code conflict'.

> Kodak uses these disks for photo CD's and they did something to the discs
> to prevent normal burners from writing them. I have heard of non-Kodak
> burners
> that actually COULD burn the Kodak discs. So it CAN be done.

> I can without any problem read that kind of discs, but I cannot write to a
> blank
> Kodak Photo CD master disc' myself.

> I'm asking this as I can buy the 'master discs' at half the price of normal
> CD-R's.

> Is there some way I can use my CDD 2600 to burn the KODAK media ?

> Best regards

> Hans-Henning

Wow that question is difficult...
Sorry, but I have no idea whatsoever.....
my guesses are that it depends on the Software as you got an Application
Code error...
But if the Disks are really different then you have bad luck I think.
Maybe you should read the PhotoCD White Papers if there is any additional
information concerning the Quality and facts of Photo-CDs... Ive never
dealt with such...
Rudy
 
 
 

Philips CDD 2600 Users should read this

Post by Rud » Thu, 15 May 1997 04:00:00



says...


> >I dont know about other products, additions to this list are welcome!

> One point you missed out is that the CDD-2600 won't work as a CD
> reader under raw Dos 6.22. I couldn't believe this but my supplier and
> the Philips Professional Lounges all now confirm this 'bug' - sorry I
> mean 'feature'.

>                                  Kris
> --
> "Every Solution breeds a new calamity"
> --

I have never tested that, but I cant imagine that s true. Have you tried
to use dos aspi? Or Adaptec EZ-SCSI??? The device is recognized by the
BIOS of my computer and SCSI Controller, and should therefore be
accessible if you use adequate SCSI device drivers.

But as I said, Ive never tested it...
And who needs DOS 6.22 these days ;-)
Rudy

 
 
 

Philips CDD 2600 Users should read this

Post by Rud » Thu, 15 May 1997 04:00:00



says...

Quote:> 1. Reading Digital Audio:

> >It can perfectly read digital audio! You have to reduce the speed to 2x
> >if you want to extract the audio data. (However the first part - about 20
> >min - of a CD CAN be red at 6x speed youll have to try...

> My experience is not the same. Some tracks I read out with ToGo show cracks or
> dropouts, some do not. It depends on the CD.

> (Or do you mean the the physical location of the track on the disc ???) - if I
> check my bad recordings that could be right ...

> Greetings,

> Mopirelli (located in 'Ruhrpott', Germany)

Hi,
once again the Philips CDD 2600 Hardware reads digital audio at 2x with
no faults! If any errors occur its a matter of software and/or
configuration. In case of WinOnCD (togo) there are a few things to pay
attention to.

The first tracks of a CD are usually located on the inner part of the
disk. If the disk spins at constant speed there  will be more data on the
(physically) outer part of the disk than on the inner part (near the
hole) because of the different radiuses. This prevents the Writer from
reading at 6x speed.

Another Reason for your dropouts may be the fact that WinONCd had some
trouble reading Audio Data from the Philips CDD 2600. I experienced that
problem too. This should be solved if you use the latest drivers from
www.cequadrat.com. Also a new Version of WinONCD exists. (Built 156 or
higher). I dont know if that is true for togo....

Another Problem is that often being referred to as jitter:
"Jitter occurs because most CD-ROM drives cannot position themselves
accurately on an audio CD. This is not necessarily a fault in the drive,
as Philips Red Book specification (a.k.a. the CD-DA format) only
states that a CD player should be able to position itself to within 1/75
of a second. When a program is reading CD-DA digitally, it cannot
guarantee that the block which is returned by the drive will be the exact
block it asked for.
If the program was able to read in from the CD continuously then there
wouldnt be a problem, since once a drive has read a block it can read
the one immediately afterwards without any difficulty. However, when the
program has to write the output to a hard drive, it cannot read the next
block immediately. Instead, it has to write out to the hard drive, then
ask the CD-ROM drive for the next block, which again may not be the block
it asks for.

The way to get around this problem is for the writer of the DA extraction
software to read each block slightly overlapping the previous block (by
at least 1/75 seconds). This way, it can match up the bytes from the end
of each block with the bytes from the start of the next block and write
out the file correctly.
Heres a quick diagram:

   |------------------------|                        First Block
                            |---------------------|  Second Block
                          |---------------------|    Incorrect second
block
                          ^^^ Overlap of up to 1/75s

The Second Block is what the CD-ROM drive should read, but the
Incorrect second block is an example of what the drive might return.
The program can overlap the reads like this:

   |---------------------===|                        First read
                        |===------------------|      Second read

It can then compare the overlapped blocks (shown with = symbols) and
discard the bytes which overlap. Its also possible for the blocks to
underlap as well as overlap, which this also corrects for.
This phenomenon is known as jitter and the process of eliminating it is
known as jitter correction or synchronization. If you play back a
file which has jitter, youll usually hear pops or breaks in the
sound."
                from the CDWorx FAQ

This feature can be selected in my version of WinONCD as high quality or
normal quality reading as the speed can also be selected. But this is
only true for Built 156 or newer I think.

I hope this makes clear that its no Philips fault! This is a good
product if you consider the really low price here in Germany.

 
 
 

Philips CDD 2600 Users should read this

Post by Kri » Fri, 16 May 1997 04:00:00




>says...
>> One point you missed out is that the CDD-2600 won't work as a CD
>> reader under raw Dos 6.22. I couldn't believe this but my supplier and

<snip>

Quote:>I have never tested that, but I cant imagine that s true. Have you tried
>to use dos aspi? Or Adaptec EZ-SCSI??? The device is recognized by the
>BIOS of my computer and SCSI Controller, and should therefore be
>accessible if you use adequate SCSI device drivers.

I'm getting really confused now. People are saying that they do have
it working under Dos6.22. Anyway at least that gives me some hope.

 As far as I can see I'm using everything that everyone has
recommended; the only possible difference being my SCSI is Adaptec
2940. A Sony SCSI drive works on the same cables and software
configuration. The drive is picked up by aspi and msdex OK. It is
perfectly usable once it has been initialised by W3.11, even if you
then exit Windows back to bare Dos.

My supplier's tech department said "tough - that's how it is" and
several contributors to the Philips feedback pages described exactly
the same bug characteristics - so I presumed it really was a known
stopper.

A few well chosen words to my supplier may now induce them to verify
the problem.

Quote:>And who needs DOS 6.22 these days ;-)

Unfortunately my legacy customers! Personally I'd like to go to NT 4.0
and leave the past in peace.

Will post if I find a resolution,  Kris
--
"Every Solution breeds a new calamity"
--

 
 
 

Philips CDD 2600 Users should read this

Post by Wade Eric Byn » Fri, 16 May 1997 04:00:00






>>says...

>>> One point you missed out is that the CDD-2600 won't work as a CD
>>> reader under raw Dos 6.22. I couldn't believe this but my supplier and
><snip>

>>I have never tested that, but I cant imagine that s true. Have you tried
>>to use dos aspi? Or Adaptec EZ-SCSI??? The device is recognized by the
>>BIOS of my computer and SCSI Controller, and should therefore be
>>accessible if you use adequate SCSI device drivers.

>I'm getting really confused now. People are saying that they do have
>it working under Dos6.22. Anyway at least that gives me some hope.

> As far as I can see I'm using everything that everyone has
>recommended; the only possible difference being my SCSI is Adaptec
>2940. A Sony SCSI drive works on the same cables and software
>configuration. The drive is picked up by aspi and msdex OK. It is
>perfectly usable once it has been initialised by W3.11, even if you
>then exit Windows back to bare Dos.

Try using the Coreal software that replace mscdex. Think its
called COREALCDX.

--
Kcobra

"I have been and always shall be your friend."
                                             --Spock

 
 
 

Philips CDD 2600 Users should read this

Post by Stewart Addis » Sat, 17 May 1997 04:00:00



>Another Problem is that often being referred to as jitter:
>"Jitter occurs because most CD-ROM drives cannot position themselves
>accurately on an audio CD.

> [...]
>            from the CDWorx FAQ

Actually this section (used by *dyne with permission) is from my CD-DA
FAQ at http://www.veryComputer.com/~psyche/cdda/

I just wanted to clear that up...

Stewart...
--

 
 
 

Philips CDD 2600 Users should read this

Post by Markus Klam » Sun, 18 May 1997 04:00:00



> =

> =

k
> >says...
> =
> >> One point you missed out is that the CDD-2600 won't work as a CD
> >> reader under raw Dos 6.22. I couldn't believe this but my supplier a=
nd
> <snip>
> =
> >I have never tested that, but I can=B4t imagine that s true. Have you =
tried
> >to use dos aspi? Or Adaptec EZ-SCSI??? The device is recognized by the=
> >BIOS of my computer and SCSI Controller, and should therefore be
> >accessible if you use adequate SCSI device drivers.
> =
> I'm getting really confused now. People are saying that they do have
> it working under Dos6.22. Anyway at least that gives me some hope.
> =
>  As far as I can see I'm using everything that everyone has
> recommended; the only possible difference being my SCSI is Adaptec
> 2940. A Sony SCSI drive works on the same cables and software
> configuration. The drive is picked up by aspi and msdex OK. It is
> perfectly usable once it has been initialised by W3.11, even if you
> then exit Windows back to bare Dos.
> =
> My supplier's tech department said "tough - that's how it is" and
> several contributors to the Philips feedback pages described exactly
> the same bug characteristics - so I presumed it really was a known
> stopper.
> =
> A few well chosen words to my supplier may now induce them to verify
> the problem.
> =
> >And who needs DOS 6.22 these days ;-)
> =
> Unfortunately my legacy customers! Personally I'd like to go to NT 4.0
> and leave the past in peace.
> =
> Will post if I find a resolution,  Kris
> --
> "Every Solution breeds a new calamity"
> --

Kris,

I think it's time to help you a little bit. There is an awful problem
with cdrom
drives and Adaptec's ASPI drivers. Fact is that the ASPICD driver tries
to figure
out which make and model the cdrom being investigated is, so that the
driver can
adapt its behaviour to the drive.
If the driver cannot identify the drive, or is seeing an unknown drive,
it defaults
to 'TOSHIBA' which is not too bad at all.
And now here's the bug (or feature): after having identified the 1st
cdrom drive on
the SCSI bus, the driver assumes that all other cdrom drives will be of
the same
make / model.
That means, that if ASPICD finds your SONY cd reader first, it defaults
to SONY and
therefore fails to operate the PHILIPS drive.
There are a few people out there (like me) who own a TOSHIBA cdrom. Now
when the
driver finds the TOSHIBA cdrom, it defaults to TOSHIBA and succeeds with
the PHILIPS
drive because the software control interface of the Philips drive is
compatible with
the TOSHIBA default.
Now what do you need to do? Just load the ASPICD a 2nd time. Add the
correct lines
to your CONFIG.SYS. Within your manuals you should find how the command
line should
look like when specifying a model code. You will have to load your
ASPICD twice. The
2nd launch will not install the driver because it is already installed;
instead it
will just tell the already loaded driver to run the PHILIPS drive in
TOSHIBA mode.

Good luck,
Markus

 
 
 

Philips CDD 2600 Users should read this

Post by Kri » Sun, 18 May 1997 04:00:00



>I think it's time to help you a little bit. There is an awful problem
>with cdrom
>drives and Adaptec's ASPI drivers. Fact is that the ASPICD driver tries
>to figure
>out which make and model the cdrom being investigated is, so that the
>driver can
>adapt its behaviour to the drive.
>If the driver cannot identify the drive, or is seeing an unknown drive,
>it defaults
>to 'TOSHIBA' which is not too bad at all.
>And now here's the bug (or feature): after having identified the 1st
>cdrom drive on
>the SCSI bus, the driver assumes that all other cdrom drives will be of
>the same
>make / model.
>That means, that if ASPICD finds your SONY cd reader first, it defaults
>to SONY and

Thanks for that warning for the future - however there is only one
drive on the SCSI at any one time - the Sony was used in place of the
Philips just to prove it wasn't anything silly in the SCSI set up.

I have kindly been sent CUNI_ASP.SYS to replace ASPICD.SYS- as it
might be something to do with the Adaptec 2940. Having trouble getting
this new driver accepted - seems to want a configuration file or EMS
before it will load - so more experimentation is needed.

Even if that works there is still the problem that WinOnCD ToGo
(WfWG311) insists on apparently replacing the functionality of the
above driver with its own addition to config.sys of C2SCSI2.EXE
(which doesn't appear to do anything for Dos use but stops Windows
access until the ASPICD.SYS is removed!)

I think I'll retire to the garden to enjoy the summer - but
unfortunately that won't help me earn my daily crust providing
solutions for my company's clients. Anyway this is getting Off Topic
so I'll only post to this thread again if I find a definitive answer.
--
"Every Solution breeds a new calamity"
--

 
 
 

Philips CDD 2600 Users should read this

Post by J?rn Schleef » Wed, 21 May 1997 04:00:00


Quote:> >> One point you missed out is that the CDD-2600 won't work as a CD
> >> reader under raw Dos 6.22.

Hi Kris,

i got the same problem with a NCR 53C810 Controller and here is what
Symbios Logic Technical Support wrote to me:

"We have seen this with some OEM systems that have the embedded 3.x scsi
bios and then
they upgrade to 4.x .
Our test group is looking at this and at this time I do not have an
specific
answer."

So it might be a SDMS support problem which hasn't yet been solved for
me too.

regards

Joern

 
 
 

Philips CDD 2600 Users should read this

Post by G?ran Ekstr? » Wed, 21 May 1997 04:00:00


Quote:> I'm getting really confused now. People are saying that they do have
> it working under Dos6.22. Anyway at least that gives me some hope.

The 'fix' that works for me in WIN95 DOS is to load SMARTDRV after MSCDEX.
The 'Drive not ready' condition was gone.

Personally. I've given up on using the 2600 as a CD-ROM. Its slow. I would
probably had been satisfied with 6x performance but the 2600 is more a 4x
drive. My tech. support gave some elaborate explanation about 'a more
complex error correction scheme'. I dont care, the ads say 6x and I/we got
4x. Its also picky about which CD's it will read. Enough! I got me a cheap
10x IDE in parallel that really works!

Goran

 
 
 

Philips CDD 2600 Users should read this

Post by Alexander Baumga » Sat, 24 May 1997 04:00:00


: > >> One point you missed out is that the CDD-2600 won't work as a CD
: > >> reader under raw Dos 6.22.

: Hi Kris,

: i got the same problem with a NCR 53C810 Controller and here is what
: Symbios Logic Technical Support wrote to me:

: "We have seen this with some OEM systems that have the embedded 3.x scsi
: bios and then
: they upgrade to 4.x .
: Our test group is looking at this and at this time I do not have an
: specific
: answer."

: So it might be a SDMS support problem which hasn't yet been solved for
: me too.

: regards
:      
: Joern

I have the same Problem. With SDMS version 3.xx the CDD2600 works as CD-ROM
under Dos, but after a upgrade to 4.02 the SCSIcd.sys hangs.

Alex