How To? Fast CPU Bug Ensemble 2.01

How To? Fast CPU Bug Ensemble 2.01

Post by Bob » Sat, 26 Apr 2003 07:42:38




Quote:> So, Bob - can you point me to a credible study that supports your claim
and
> refutes Ray's?  Otherwise it's just a never ending he said - he said.

> Or maybe Ray can cite a study supporting his claim?

> John ;-)

ummm, just read trade journals. you'll find the evolution of the home pc has
drastically changed. personally, i don't even have a WP except for WordPad.
why would i wish to do work on my home PC? it is onlu used for
entertainment. that's what sells PC's, that's why folks buy PC's.
 
 
 

How To? Fast CPU Bug Ensemble 2.01

Post by Pat » Sat, 26 Apr 2003 23:04:27


 Hardly!! I equate that "Liars Figure & Figures Lie" >>

A cute and tired, over used phrase. Ray, you can do better then that. <g>
Face it, box office sales are not high enough to make a profit for the
majority of films. That is why there are so many games based on action
films, the most peoular Hollywood genre.

Quote:>> IF (and a very big IF here) you are one of the folks who give a rip about

the
latest games -- feel free to overclock your machine and get the last erg of
performance out of it. >>

Many do, however, the game developers are pushing that envelope so fast that
you can't overclock your way into the sweet spot of performance for very
long. For example, DirectX 9 is now on the street. You need a special video
card to enable the primitives at the hardware level to get great performance
out of a ATI Radeon high end card.

Quote:>> For the vast majority of folks who need to do basic word processing &

email --
the speed of the PC in and of itself is patently irrelevant. To say those
folks
need that kind of horsepower is quite disingenuous IMO. >>

Word Processing is becoming as popular as putting a stamp on an envelope and
mailing someone a letter. Email has supplanted it. However, you can do email
for a brief time during the day, unless you are at work. The remainder is:

(1) Surfing the Web.
(2) Audio MP3 files, etc.
(3) Games.
(4) Video VCD, SVCD, increasingly DVD authoring.

The multimedia and 3D experience that is enhanced through broadband
communications is only made richer by hardware that off loads software. This
is the gem that people discover whilst using a broadband connection. And
with Windows XP, the software is there to take advantage of the content that
is like ripe fruit* from heavy laden trees for the picking.

Is GEOS ever going to accomplish this?
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

 
 
 

How To? Fast CPU Bug Ensemble 2.01

Post by Pat » Sat, 26 Apr 2003 23:28:09



Sure you understand my statement, you are just pretending not to. Its clear
as the nose on your face, games push the hardware envelope and that in turn
pushes gamers to want upgrades and eventually more contemporary computers.
Case in point is the XBOX, Nintendo, and Playstation. All there to satisfy
the gamers craving. Even the PC, in many cases, has been unbable to service
every requirement. But that delta keeps closing as PCs get faster and better
at graphics.

Regards bloat and buggy code, the Windows 2000 kernel, as exhibited by the
Windows XP implementation is so far ahead of the Windows 3.x and 9.x/ME
technology that its not worth discussing. What you call bloat is just more
optional code that you can turn ON or OFF, use or not use. Nobody wants the
majority but its all there for the picking and every option is needed by
someone, somewhere in the world. This is a concept that a GEOS user can't
grasp. My God, so many options, how decadent Comrade! Especially in the
Goolag of GEOS.

Maybe your son would become spoiled if he were exposed long enough to the
pleasures of a fast PC running Windows XP and a contemporary game. All you
have to do is go to an ACM SigGraph show or Comdex to see what is possible
with modern 3D graphics and the joys of using software that can transform
that energy into a more believeable simulation.

 
 
 

How To? Fast CPU Bug Ensemble 2.01

Post by Philippe Dallemagn » Sat, 26 Apr 2003 23:38:11


Incredible :-)))


>  Hardly!! I equate that "Liars Figure & Figures Lie" >>

> A cute and tired, over used phrase. Ray, you can do better then that. <g>
> Face it, box office sales are not high enough to make a profit for the
> majority of films. That is why there are so many games based on action
> films, the most peoular Hollywood genre.

> >> IF (and a very big IF here) you are one of the folks who give a rip about
> the
> latest games -- feel free to overclock your machine and get the last erg of
> performance out of it. >>

> Many do, however, the game developers are pushing that envelope so fast that
> you can't overclock your way into the sweet spot of performance for very
> long. For example, DirectX 9 is now on the street. You need a special video
> card to enable the primitives at the hardware level to get great performance
> out of a ATI Radeon high end card.

> >> For the vast majority of folks who need to do basic word processing &
> email --
> the speed of the PC in and of itself is patently irrelevant. To say those
> folks
> need that kind of horsepower is quite disingenuous IMO. >>

> Word Processing is becoming as popular as putting a stamp on an envelope and
> mailing someone a letter. Email has supplanted it. However, you can do email
> for a brief time during the day, unless you are at work. The remainder is:

> (1) Surfing the Web.

Yes, ok.

Quote:> (2) Audio MP3 files, etc.

Better use dedicated hardware for that (portable audio players).

Quote:> (3) Games.

Buy a dedicated console (even if you always buy the latest model, you
would spend less than upgrading your PC every 6 months). And you won't

Quote:> (4) Video VCD, SVCD, increasingly DVD authoring.

Very averge on a Win machine. Ok on a Mac. Here you make a point : you
definitely need a personal computer to do video editing.

Quote:> The multimedia and 3D experience that is enhanced through broadband
> communications is only made richer by hardware that off loads software. This
> is the gem that people discover whilst using a broadband connection.

From which commercials did you paste it ?

Quote:> And
> with Windows XP, the software is there to take advantage of the content that
> is like ripe fruit* from heavy laden trees for the picking.

The content : let me laugh about the content. In general, it is so poor
that their producer must add tons of useless moving yuyus to attract
simple-minded consumers that will eventually be over-billed (ok I
disgress).

Quote:> Is GEOS ever going to accomplish this?
> Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

No, just a different experience : think by yourself, put your thoughts
in concrete words or images. You might call it content, too.

Philippe.

 
 
 

How To? Fast CPU Bug Ensemble 2.01

Post by Pat » Sat, 26 Apr 2003 23:34:01




Not every person is at the extreme level of play but the trend is to get
hardware to keep up with the more demanding software play and that "pushing
the envelope" is accelerating as competition heats things up. Right now, I
can guarantee you that developers are going to trump SimCity 4 and make it
look lethargic by comparison.

I am merely holding up  mirror to the truth!

 
 
 

How To? Fast CPU Bug Ensemble 2.01

Post by John Howar » Sun, 27 Apr 2003 00:25:36


Ok - so I'll take that answer as a "No, I can't cite a credible study."

John ;-)




>>So, Bob - can you point me to a credible study that supports your claim

> and

>>refutes Ray's?  Otherwise it's just a never ending he said - he said.

>>Or maybe Ray can cite a study supporting his claim?

>>John ;-)

> ummm, just read trade journals. you'll find the evolution of the home pc has
> drastically changed. personally, i don't even have a WP except for WordPad.
> why would i wish to do work on my home PC? it is onlu used for
> entertainment. that's what sells PC's, that's why folks buy PC's.

 
 
 

How To? Fast CPU Bug Ensemble 2.01

Post by Bob » Sun, 27 Apr 2003 02:50:31



Quote:> Ok - so I'll take that answer as a "No, I can't cite a credible study."

> John ;-)

If u wish. The facts are there u just choose to ignore them. Living is easy
with eyes closed, misunderstanding all you see. PC sales are driven by the
fact that folks use them for ENTERTAINMENT. NOT for "work."
 
 
 

How To? Fast CPU Bug Ensemble 2.01

Post by John Howar » Sun, 27 Apr 2003 07:39:02


So show me an industry survey.

I agree that sales are pitched to audio, video and gamers.  Hey, if I wanted to
sell the latest stuff with the highest profit margin, that's exactly who I'd
pitch to.  And I'd try to convince folks that they need to spend their money on
my product to do what "everyone who is in, is doing".  Appeal to the bigger,
faster, more powerful.  Been going on in the computer trade ever since it started.

And, remembering back to Marketing 101, the product life cycle, PCs are in the
mature stage.  In this stage you sell upgrades.  You convince folks that their
old models won't do the new stuff.  That's where the trade rags are today.  New
stuff.

So my request for a survey is not facetious, or snotty.  I haven't been able to
locate anything that attempts to show how the broad spectrum of PC users use
their PCs.  I think it's a reasonable question and without data the arguement
gets none of us anywhere.

John ;-)




>>Ok - so I'll take that answer as a "No, I can't cite a credible study."

>>John ;-)

> If u wish. The facts are there u just choose to ignore them. Living is easy
> with eyes closed, misunderstanding all you see. PC sales are driven by the
> fact that folks use them for ENTERTAINMENT. NOT for "work."

 
 
 

How To? Fast CPU Bug Ensemble 2.01

Post by Ray Kopczyns » Sun, 27 Apr 2003 09:59:35


<< Bob: "PC sales are driven by the fact that folks use them for ENTERTAINMENT.
NOT for "work." >>

Umm - OK -- surfing the web while at work falls into your definition I guess...

Here's more typical usage (survey results) from my perspective:

http://www.cityofseattle.net/tech/indicators/residential_survey_repor...

Ray

 
 
 

How To? Fast CPU Bug Ensemble 2.01

Post by Bob » Sun, 27 Apr 2003 22:22:08



Quote:> << Bob: "PC sales are driven by the fact that folks use them for
ENTERTAINMENT.
> NOT for "work." >>

> Umm - OK -- surfing the web while at work falls into your definition I
guess...

> Here's more typical usage (survey results) from my perspective:

> http://www.cityofseattle.net/tech/indicators/residential_survey_repor...

> Ray

from your source:
Respondents are most likely to use the computer for personal

communications (97%), researching hobbies or personal interests (96%),

gathering information about products or services (95%), finding news

about travel or travel arrangements (94%), and learning about current

events (93%), and doing work-related tasks (92%). Residents are least

likely to use the computer for participating in chat rooms (71%), starting
or

maintaining a business (75%), or contacting elected officials (79%).

Looks like they do fun stuff to me ;)

 
 
 

How To? Fast CPU Bug Ensemble 2.01

Post by John Howar » Mon, 28 Apr 2003 01:37:35


Thanks for the pointer to that survey, Ray.  Looks like email is still the
killer app!

John ;-)


> << Bob: "PC sales are driven by the fact that folks use them for ENTERTAINMENT.
> NOT for "work." >>

> Umm - OK -- surfing the web while at work falls into your definition I guess...

> Here's more typical usage (survey results) from my perspective:

> http://www.cityofseattle.net/tech/indicators/residential_survey_repor...

> Ray

 
 
 

How To? Fast CPU Bug Ensemble 2.01

Post by Ray Kopczyns » Mon, 28 Apr 2003 05:25:13


I agree... A lot of this stuff IS "fun stuff" to many of us...and it sure seems
to me that 100% of the items listed below do not require the massive horepower
& game-centric machines promulgated via the marketing today...

Ray

>Subject: Re: How To? Fast CPU Bug Ensemble 2.01

>Date: 4/26/03 6:22 AM Pacific Daylight Time



>> << Bob: "PC sales are driven by the fact that folks use them for
>ENTERTAINMENT.
>> NOT for "work." >>

>> Umm - OK -- surfing the web while at work falls into your definition I
>guess...

>> Here's more typical usage (survey results) from my perspective:

>> http://www.cityofseattle.net/tech/indicators/residential_survey_repor...

>> Ray

>from your source:
>Respondents are most likely to use the computer for personal

>communications (97%), researching hobbies or personal interests (96%),

>gathering information about products or services (95%), finding news

>about travel or travel arrangements (94%), and learning about current

>events (93%), and doing work-related tasks (92%). Residents are least

>likely to use the computer for participating in chat rooms (71%), starting
>or

>maintaining a business (75%), or contacting elected officials (79%).

>Looks like they do fun stuff to me ;)

Ray Kopczynski

Geos -- The O/S for those who have simpler needs and hardware...
http://profiles.yahoo.com/geoholic

 
 
 

How To? Fast CPU Bug Ensemble 2.01

Post by Pat » Tue, 29 Apr 2003 11:41:21



Quote:> > The multimedia and 3D experience that is enhanced through broadband
> > communications is only made richer by hardware that off loads software.
This
> > is the gem that people discover whilst using a broadband connection.

> From which commercials did you paste it ?

Here is a partial list for GEOS to tackle when 32 bit comes out ;)

http://terraserver.microsoft.com/

http://www.atomfilms.com

http://bijoucafe.com

http://www.thebitscreen.com

http://www.bmwfilms.com

http://www.ifilm.net

http://www.thesync.com

 
 
 

How To? Fast CPU Bug Ensemble 2.01

Post by Philippe Dallemagn » Tue, 29 Apr 2003 16:34:57


Hi Pat,

:-)

I was just talking about the terms you are using here :
- the "multimedia and 3D experience",
- "enhanced",
- "broadband communications",
- "richer",
- "hardware that offloads the software",
- "this is the gem"

I may have already heard them on TV or papers adds. Usually, you only
get burnt once.

Philippe.




> > > The multimedia and 3D experience that is enhanced through broadband
> > > communications is only made richer by hardware that off loads software.
> This
> > > is the gem that people discover whilst using a broadband connection.

> > From which commercials did you paste it ?

> Here is a partial list for GEOS to tackle when 32 bit comes out ;)

> http://terraserver.microsoft.com/

> http://www.atomfilms.com

> http://bijoucafe.com

> http://www.thebitscreen.com

> http://www.bmwfilms.com

> http://www.ifilm.net

> http://www.thesync.com

 
 
 

How To? Fast CPU Bug Ensemble 2.01

Post by Pat » Tue, 29 Apr 2003 23:43:51


Compared to a 56K modem, being on a 1Mbps + cable link with web cam for
two-way video phone communication works. Streaming MPEG4 movies work when
the remote server is able to handle the stream. All of the negatives
associated with slow data are lifted. The one big block is the speed of
servers to keep up and the ability of the Internet to handle the load.
Multicasting as first implemented via MBONE is slowly being deployed. Other
issues are being addressed. The clients and the OS and the apps are ahead of
the infrastructure but many times all the stars line up and it works as
advertised. LOL!!!


> Hi Pat,

> :-)

> I was just talking about the terms you are using here :
> - the "multimedia and 3D experience",
> - "enhanced",
> - "broadband communications",
> - "richer",
> - "hardware that offloads the software",
> - "this is the gem"

> I may have already heard them on TV or papers adds. Usually, you only
> get burnt once.

> Philippe.




> > > > The multimedia and 3D experience that is enhanced through broadband
> > > > communications is only made richer by hardware that off loads
software.
> > This
> > > > is the gem that people discover whilst using a broadband connection.

> > > From which commercials did you paste it ?

> > Here is a partial list for GEOS to tackle when 32 bit comes out ;)

> > http://terraserver.microsoft.com/

> > http://www.atomfilms.com

> > http://bijoucafe.com

> > http://www.thebitscreen.com

> > http://www.bmwfilms.com

> > http://www.ifilm.net

> > http://www.thesync.com