Living in the past

Living in the past

Post by Pat » Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:07:07





> >If you love GEOS, then keep using it on appropriate systems [...]

OLD SYSTEMS WHERE GEOS HAS NO COMPETITION

Quote:> >Grow Up and stop clutching to obsolete software.

ON SYSTEMS WHERE GEOS IS NOT THE RIGHT FIT
 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by Pat » Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:08:51


Huh?

Can I have a blast of that pipe you're smoking?


> Since when does buying a new version of windows make someone presumably
> an *???


> > Bottom Line: Grow Up and stop clutching to obsolete software.


 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by Pat » Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:16:07


Hans and Hyubso,

So out of fuel when it comes to logically defending their GEOS that th have
to resort to inane comments and picking lint out of messages with typos.
ROTFL!


> Well I love to use my 736 with Windows.....

> Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

> Br,
> Hans




> > > So? I am still waiting? What do you advise me to do?

> > ANSWER:

> > I have no idea what makes you tick. If you love GEOS, then keep using
> it on
> > appropriate systems, like 396s and 486s. I don't know why you would ever
> > load it on a contemporary system when it hasn't a clue about any
hardware
> > that was built later then when Geoworks stopped using it, other than a
> > paltry number of device drivers since ND took over.

> > Bottom Line: Grow Up and stop clutching to obsolete software. Do I have
> to
> > tell you the story of the monkey and the ball?

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by Pat » Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:23:05


He is too slow to realize that the Symbian deal was in the works for a long
time before Gates ever got involved.




> > Bill simply went ot nokia to scare the living daylights out of them, so
> > they would drop GEOS ( a definite cell phone os threat, and potentially
> > a desktop os threat, after further okia development)  and lose time
> > regrouping while he scrambled for the next few years to get his windows
> > CE on track.

> LOL! Oh man! You actually think he gave a frig about GEOS or even knew
Nokia
> was using it in some of their stuff? Man, you is a strange one. And a
> "desktop os threat"!! LOL! What a moron!

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by Pat » Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:28:54


Its too late for a GEOS32 as the Windows (no pun intended) of opportunity
has closed long ago. In fact, a 32 bit GEOS would be the simple part. What
about the drivers and compatibility testing as users would have to run their
existing applications. There is not enough traction to demand that everyone
start from scratch. That is why the whole thing is ridiculous.


> Well, you have your chance now........If there will be a GEOS32, where
will
> you be?
> You can make a promise and then we'll see........

> Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

> BR,
> Hans





> > > Just asking you to remove yourselves and all that negativity . It's
> so
> > > predictable and boring by now.

> > I beg to disagree. Its boring to allow this charade to continue, without
> > addressing the cold, hard facts. GEOS will never mature as an OS because
> its
> > so far behind the curve. It would take capital beyond the ability of BBX
> to
> > make it happen. IBM spent 100s of millions of dollars on OS/2 and failed
> to
> > win the desktop. They have since embraced Linux for servers and Windows
> XP
> > for desktops! Very few users want to face facts, they want to pretend
> a
> > miracle will occur. A few users think that a duplicate of the Linux
> > initiative will happen to GEOS. They do not realize that the community
> that
> > did Linux was Unix centric. They see GEOS as a little DOS GUI that runs
> on a
> > single chip set. As for GEOS-SC, its not even desktop oriented, because
> the
> > developers built it from the ground up as a cross-platform OS for
> > Smartphones. BBX_John has made it clear. BBX is not going to do anything
> > major to the current GEOS and they are working on a new GEOS, but no
> > details, its not around the corner, its just an amorphous cloud and an
> > enigma to some (me).

> > As a GEOS enthusiast, you can look forward to no improvements in the
GEOS
> > kernel or core applications, that make up the ensemble suite. If that
> is all
> > you want out of your computing experience, then you will be happy. But
> if
> > you want more, look elsewhere!

> > > It's not necessary to be an extremist in order to like GEOS.  I use
> it
> > > because it fills most of my needs together with Dos and Win 3.11, is
> > > easy to use and doesn't require much hardware. Suits a 486/66 really
> > > well. Why enter that costly upgrade spiral when there's no real need
> > > for it.

> > Like I said, if that's all you want out of your software then you have
> no
> > beef with me. My only dispute concerns users who think GEOS is going to
> > advance beyond its current 16-bit implementation. Why would you want
that?
> > For one, your Internet apps would run better, unless you think its just
> fine
> > the way it is NOW. So you are a happy GEOS camper and enjoy life. Don't
> > forget to put me in your kill list, like many of the other Europeans who
> > despise what I say!

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by Pat » Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:29:25


Crystal!


> You speak freely here, but you will not be let in into the third world
bar.......
> isn't that clear enough?

> BR,
> Hans


> > I know, I would be thrown out for asking questions for which their are
> > embarassing answers. A cult group of extremists wants absolutely no
dissent.
> > Its akin to the government of North Korea where a million people bow in
> a
> > large space and show their devotion for the current dictator while
guards
> > are watching to make sure that people's devotion is sincere.



> > > I doubt that you will ever be let in.....like in the third world
> > bar..........

> > > BR,
> > > Hans


> > > > Helene is a GEOS legend. I've used her stuff back in the early '90s,
> > when
> > > > people were swarming all over the Geoworks forum on AOL, and I think
> she
> > > can
> > > > take a poke in the ribs without crying. Why did she post in the
first
> > > place?
> > > > Answer: To take a jab, and for no other reason. And she did sign-on
> to
> > > the
> > > > notion that the EXIT is where non believers should head, when its
> > clearly
> > > > inappropriate for an open public Newsgroup to pretend its a closed
> > > > Newsgroup. Now if I posted my feelings on that private Katter site,
> I
> > > think
> > > > it would be like walking into a bar, in a seedy section of some
third
> > > world
> > > > country. Translation: Not too friendly to outsiders, if ya know what
> I
> > > mean.
> > > > <g>





> > > > > | Helene,
> > > > > |
> > > > > | There are only a few of the Geo Extremists left and they are the
> > ones
> > > > > | who will go down with the ship. One thing about an extremist,
> they
> > > > > | are hard of hearing and don't read all the words on the page
very
> > > > > | well. Also, they are, on occasion, purposefully illogical and
> > > > > | unwilling to make waves. They don't dance, they goose step. And
> > > > > | finally, they have a deep sense of being part of a cult, like
> all
> > > > > | those poor souls who drank the Kool-Aid at Jones Town.

> > > > > Geez, Pat, that's pretty harsh!

> > > > > GW users are really just like any other "cults" in some ways. In
> the
> > > US,
> > > > > I've been in many Ford vs Chevy vs Dodge arguments. My cousin
likes
> > > RV
> > > > > camping, I prefer tenting. Some friends of mine prefer taking a
> cruise
> > > > > to a vacation spot, I prefer to fly. In the long run, as long as
> > someone
> > > > > does something for their personal enjoyment, then it doesn't
really
> > > > > matter.

> > > > > Personally, will confess to receiving a little guilty pleasure in
> > > > > arguing against the die-hard GW users. When I look at my posts
over
> > > the
> > > > > years, and think about my enjoyment in using GW, I'm surprised
that
> > > I do
> > > > > this. I still think that GW is cool, but probably not in the way
> that
> > > > > Hans and Chip do. Rather, I think that it's cool in the same way
> that
> > > I
> > > > > think my Visual Commuter 8086 1.4mhz  512k dual floppy "portable"
> is
> > > > > cool. Or the way that I think a 1960's vintage Fiat Spider is
cool.
> > > It's
> > > > > not practical, but the pleasant memory lingers on. My cousin is
> > > > > rebuilding an old Datsun 1600 roadster. Not practical for everyday
> > use,
> > > > > but nice for a spin around the lake on a sunny afternoon.

> > > > > Aw, jeez, I just realized that now someone is goign to start on
> how
> > > GW
> > > > > *is* practical for everyday use. Sure, if my cousin only needed
> to
> > drive
> > > > > a couple of miles to the store and back, his Datsun is "practical"
> as
> > > > > well. But it's only practical for a very limited market. Sadly or
> not,
> > > > > NDO is not even competiton for the more robust Win and Linux
office
> > > > > suites (BTW, I just d/loaded OpenOffice, but haven't installed it
> > yet),
> > > > > and it never will be again. It's long lost the potential to be a
> > > > > "contender". Not because it doesn't do what it's supposed to, but
> > > > > because the market has moved in a different direction.

> > > > > Tom

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by Pat » Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:31:37


Windows = An evolving poem.

GEOS = An unfinished short story.

Great, COGM has become Sesame Street.


> Windows = WYSIWYS and WYGIWYG


> > GEOS = WYSIWYG   ;-)

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by hyubs » Wed, 18 Jun 2003 15:07:47


you can take the apple approach on a very low cost scale and design the
hardware to fit the software.

myturn tried this approach, the correct approach,  but ended up putting
too much hardware in the box adn the global pc was underpriced by all
those now **hard to find***  $400, 3 year online service rebate contracts.

maybe myturn was a bit too early to market with this idea.. but what
about doing it today by installing and running geos on a 128mbyte
thumbdrive based keyboard computer with no floppy/no hard drive/no cdrom
drive, and teh thumbdrive installs into one of several usb ports built
into the simple , ultra low cost keyboard computer?

on a 128MB thumbdrive, dos/geos programs and data is easily removed from
the  keyboard pc, data files saved in windows compatible formats are
easily readable by windows pcs, the thumbdrive might even be bootable
from USB on a windows computer so one could still  get basic boot to
dos/geos operation on just about any usb bootable pc in the world by
carrying their thumbdrive instead of a laptop.

with geos you are not starting from scratch..  GEOS's excellent
structural design is already in place.. in fact microsoft has been
copying it for years adn is still very slowly integrating the apps into
the operating system, something geos is so much farther along with.

Starting from scratch means starting with a blank piece of paper, making
design mistakes along the way, risking failure at every step,  and after
  doing all that, the end goal would STILL be to build  a 32 bit GEOS
rather than any other 32 bit OS product out there.  GEOS is the ultimate
software design goal, no matter what you call it, and geos already
exists, so why start from scratch??  why  not improve on the best
software design that already exists???

There is nothing like GEOS for programming efficiency.  GIve geos more
development and build in enough hardware support  on an integrated
hardware/software product that just gets the job done ("good enough for
who its for" is my motto)..(ie: ethernet, tcp/ip, 6 USB 2 ports, no
modem,no hard drive, no cdrom, no floppy, no serial/no parallel ports)
and sell it on the absolutely lowest hardware cost  device available.

nothing ridiculous about that....


> Its too late for a GEOS32 as the Windows (no pun intended) of opportunity
> has closed long ago. In fact, a 32 bit GEOS would be the simple part. What
> about the drivers and compatibility testing as users would have to run their
> existing applications. There is not enough traction to demand that everyone
> start from scratch. That is why the whole thing is ridiculous.



>>Well, you have your chance now........If there will be a GEOS32, where

> will

>>you be?
>>You can make a promise and then we'll see........

>>Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

>>BR,
>>Hans





>>>>Just asking you to remove yourselves and all that negativity . It's

>>so

>>>>predictable and boring by now.

>>>I beg to disagree. Its boring to allow this charade to continue, without
>>>addressing the cold, hard facts. GEOS will never mature as an OS because

>>its

>>>so far behind the curve. It would take capital beyond the ability of BBX

>>to

>>>make it happen. IBM spent 100s of millions of dollars on OS/2 and failed

>>to

>>>win the desktop. They have since embraced Linux for servers and Windows

>>XP

>>>for desktops! Very few users want to face facts, they want to pretend

>>a

>>>miracle will occur. A few users think that a duplicate of the Linux
>>>initiative will happen to GEOS. They do not realize that the community

>>that

>>>did Linux was Unix centric. They see GEOS as a little DOS GUI that runs

>>on a

>>>single chip set. As for GEOS-SC, its not even desktop oriented, because

>>the

>>>developers built it from the ground up as a cross-platform OS for
>>>Smartphones. BBX_John has made it clear. BBX is not going to do anything
>>>major to the current GEOS and they are working on a new GEOS, but no
>>>details, its not around the corner, its just an amorphous cloud and an
>>>enigma to some (me).

>>>As a GEOS enthusiast, you can look forward to no improvements in the

> GEOS

>>>kernel or core applications, that make up the ensemble suite. If that

>>is all

>>>you want out of your computing experience, then you will be happy. But

>>if

>>>you want more, look elsewhere!

>>>>It's not necessary to be an extremist in order to like GEOS.  I use

>>it

>>>>because it fills most of my needs together with Dos and Win 3.11, is
>>>>easy to use and doesn't require much hardware. Suits a 486/66 really
>>>>well. Why enter that costly upgrade spiral when there's no real need
>>>>for it.

>>>Like I said, if that's all you want out of your software then you have

>>no

>>>beef with me. My only dispute concerns users who think GEOS is going to
>>>advance beyond its current 16-bit implementation. Why would you want

> that?

>>>For one, your Internet apps would run better, unless you think its just

>>fine

>>>the way it is NOW. So you are a happy GEOS camper and enjoy life. Don't
>>>forget to put me in your kill list, like many of the other Europeans who
>>>despise what I say!

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by C BLANK » Wed, 18 Jun 2003 15:48:32


***ANSWER:

I have no idea what makes you tick. If you love GEOS, then keep using it on
appropriate systems, like 396s and 486s. I don't know why you would ever
load it on a contemporary system when it hasn't a clue about any hardware
that was built later then when Geoworks stopped using it, other than a
paltry number of device drivers since ND took over.
***

You put GEOS on a faster than 486 system for more operational speed of the
applications. Simple concept, eh?

Chip Blank
GUI
GeoGrafix

The GEOS Users International website is at:
http://hometown.aol.com/GUIUSA/GUI_USA.html

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by C BLANK » Wed, 18 Jun 2003 15:52:53


***Again one has nothing to do with the other. The fact of the matter is that
you made a simply clueless comment that the OS on a pre-installed PC is
free. That is either naive, or stupid, or in your case both. The price of
the OS is included in the total package price.***

Bob, the average computer purchaser actually does look at the preinstalled
software as free...even though it is not. Perception is what is in play.
Perception is why people may silly decisions in many areas all too often.

Chip Blank
GUI
GeoGrafix

The GEOS Users International website is at:
http://hometown.aol.com/GUIUSA/GUI_USA.html

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by C BLANK » Wed, 18 Jun 2003 15:56:55


***if you can't get a refund for something that is newly purchsaed adn
unused, you obviously never paid for it.***

He has a point. You can look at the software, then, as a freebie premium to
sell the hardware better. Kind of like getting a toaster for opening a bank
account. You can't give the toaster back to the bank for a refund either.

Chip Blank
GUI
GeoGrafix

The GEOS Users International website is at:
http://hometown.aol.com/GUIUSA/GUI_USA.html

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by Philippe Dallemagn » Wed, 18 Jun 2003 16:26:44


Ericsson also had one of the first Symbian-based phone (R380 ?). Shortly
after that they searched for money, which ended up in the merge with
Sony. No doubt that Microsoft was (at least) contacted or interested at
some point (which would have also meant some technology
transfers/cooperation).

Philippe.


> Nah.....that is just baloney......Nokia does not use any thing Microsoft
> and does not taking order from Bill G. They work hard to keep away from them,
> and Microsofts cooperation with Ericsson has been a real failure. No wonder
> about that.
> Ericsson is a company in crisis and Nokia is doing pretty well, away from
> Microsoft. Breadbox and Nokia is doing well, together. Well, EPOC was the
> initial name of Symbian and Bill Gates did not have anything to do with the
> creation of it. Have you heard anything of the computerized refrigirator
> from Electrolux/White/Microsoft......probably just another failure..........

> BR,
> Hans


> > Symbian did not exist before that visit, but psion did, as far as i
> > recall...

> > symbian started in june 1998, so bill gates could not join symbian if
> it
> > did not exist yet.

> > http://www.symbian.com/about/about.html

> > while the cream pie was placed against Bills face on feb 4, 1998, 5
> > months before symbians birth..

> > http://www.bitstorm.org/gates/

> > Bill simply went ot nokia to scare the living daylights out of them, so
> > they would drop GEOS ( a definite cell phone os threat, and potentially
> > a desktop os threat, after further okia development)  and lose time
> > regrouping while he scrambled for the next few years to get his windows
> > CE on track.

> > but you are right about cost sharing with other maufacturers.. it is the
> > other manufactureres, motorola, ericsson, etc who for some reason were
> > very reluctant to use geos, thus leaving nokia alone in a very lonely
> > geos camp, while the rest of the crowd leaned toward psion which led to
> > the formation of symbian..



> > >>we would probably  be there now had nokia not dumped geos after Bill
> G's
> > >>famous cream pie in the face european "vacation"

> > > Well, I don't think this is correct. Nokia dumped GEOS because it was
> real
> > > mode. They migrated to Symbian because it was 32-bit and an OS, just
> as GEOS,
> > > made for CCD:s. Bill G did not have anything to do with this, as he
> was trying
> > > to join the Symbian project, but the Symbian project did not want Microsoft
> > > to join. If Nokia have continued the GEOS road they would have to take
> all
> > > of the development by themselves. By joining Symbian Noika could share
> the
> > > develpoment costs with others, and create common standards. I think
> that
> > > is why they dumped GEOS

> > > BR,
> > > Hans

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by Philippe Dallemagn » Wed, 18 Jun 2003 16:31:49


Why not ? These phones (9xxx) were really successful (at least here in
Europe), hundred of thousands of customers did more than only "thinking"
(including me, but I do not count ;-). BTW, I am not sure if WG would
even make a difference between, eg., Symbian and GEOS (of course they
are different names, but after that...)

Philippe.


> Gates couldn't have a given a micro-seconds worth of thought to GEOS on a
> Nokia phone.



> > Gates had two goals for that visit..  one, to get in bed with nokia so
> > Nokika would use Microosft software on cell phones...  if that failed,
> > he was to derail Nokia's efforts at creating a smartphone software
> > product, using geos as the base, which would compete with his inferior
> > WinCE based cell phone dreams.

> > Gates' visit was successful... he gained much valuable time to further
> > develop his products, geos was dumped and Geoworks  knee capped/mortally
> > wounded,  nokia had to partner with other manufacturers on
> > epoch/psion/symbian and basically abandon all the knowledge and skills
> > developed  for the geos platform and start over using symbian software.


> > > Nah.....that is just baloney......Nokia does not use any thing Microsoft
> > > and does not taking order from Bill G. They work hard to keep away from
> them,
> > > and Microsofts cooperation with Ericsson has been a real failure.

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by C BLANK » Wed, 18 Jun 2003 16:46:36



Date: Sun, Jun 15, 2003 09:51 EDT

See no one is arguing that. ***

Could have fooled me.

***What we are arguing is that folks like yourself state that GEOS is state of
the art***

I have yet to say that, nor have I heard any GEOS supporter say that. Having
said that, what 'state-of-the-art' components are missing for what I want to
do?

***, or viable in today's marketplace.***

Well, it is definitely a challenge at this point, but far from hopeless.

*** It is NOT! NO ONE is interested in it. It doesn't have anything the average
PC
user of today wants***

Wrong, depending upon what any individual user wants. GEOS is great as a basic
office suite with or without Windows. And, it is terrific in bringing basic
productivity life to any older  (legacy) PC as a second, third, fourth, fifth
computer in a household. There is no reason why any student or even * does
not have a basic productivity computer with GEOS on it, other than it has not
been marketed yet from such an angle. GEOS can do a tremendous lot in basic
office productivity and then some.

***. It is no longer in production or development. ***

Wrong, I believe.

***It doesn't support any of today's hardware, (USB, Firewire.)***

Not needed.

*** It has zero multimedia capabilities.***

No interest in it for myself, so I don't care.

*** It runs zero currently produced software.***

What new software do I need? Others are asking this earth shattering question
too.

*** It is nothing but an old legacy app. For the fraction of a percent of folks
that
would ever be happy with that***

It is a current app/GUI for 386 on up legacy computers...are K5 systems legacy?
I guess so. Are Pentium IIs legacy? Ooops, yep. How fast do I need to go before
GEOS is no good to anyone?

***The rest of the world is happy
with indoor plumbing. If you still wanna shit in the woods and wipe yourself
with an oak leaf go ahead, because that is what GEOS is to modern day PC's.
***

Not hardly. The difference is between using a 20 year old commode or shower vs
a new one that is heated or has other superfluous features. They all have to
work similarly in the basics.  GEOS features are quite useful and very good
technically as far as the user is concerned. It comes down only to what the
user wants the computer to do, which determines what software is used (once you
get past what is preloaded and free to the purchaser...where have I heard that
before?).

Chip Blank
GUI
GeoGrafix

The GEOS Users International website is at:
http://www.veryComputer.com/

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by Andreas Bollhalde » Wed, 18 Jun 2003 19:12:31


I have a friend which is the CTO for the informatics in our country of a
world wide company. He did get a Nokia 9110 which is has a defective
display. So he asked me for help to repair it because I know the GEOS and
the associated devices well. He is using other devices too like a Palm/Handy
combination, but he told me that a Communicator is quite usefull for his
purposes.
A lot of other friends have too a Communicator. These ones who have now
another handy, gave there Communicator to other friends and they are still
in use.
The Communicator is still the most used PDA/Handy combination as far I know
in Switzerland.

I only say : GREAT !!!!

Andreas


> Why not ? These phones (9xxx) were really successful (at least here in
> Europe), hundred of thousands of customers did more than only "thinking"
> (including me, but I do not count ;-). BTW, I am not sure if WG would
> even make a difference between, eg., Symbian and GEOS (of course they
> are different names, but after that...)

> Philippe.


> > Gates couldn't have a given a micro-seconds worth of thought to GEOS on
a
> > Nokia phone.



> > > Gates had two goals for that visit..  one, to get in bed with nokia so
> > > Nokika would use Microosft software on cell phones...  if that failed,
> > > he was to derail Nokia's efforts at creating a smartphone software
> > > product, using geos as the base, which would compete with his inferior
> > > WinCE based cell phone dreams.

> > > Gates' visit was successful... he gained much valuable time to further
> > > develop his products, geos was dumped and Geoworks  knee
capped/mortally
> > > wounded,  nokia had to partner with other manufacturers on
> > > epoch/psion/symbian and basically abandon all the knowledge and skills
> > > developed  for the geos platform and start over using symbian
software.


> > > > Nah.....that is just baloney......Nokia does not use any thing
Microsoft
> > > > and does not taking order from Bill G. They work hard to keep away
from
> > them,
> > > > and Microsofts cooperation with Ericsson has been a real failure.