Living in the past

Living in the past

Post by Hans Lindgre » Wed, 18 Jun 2003 03:41:52






> > The wonder with GEOS is that so much can be done in real mode. That
makes
> > me curious how it will look in a flat memory model.

> >There are zillions of
> > things which can be improved in GEOS,

> This I agree with you on.

>  >but GEOS is there, and still works
> > pretty well in real mode, despite its limitations.

> This I disagree with you on. GEOS has tons of memory problems due to its'
> 1024K limitation, (well 640K really). Back when its' design was of great
> benefit. Now what was once a benefit is a severe limitation. The fact
of the
> matter is the world of PC's has changed so drastically since 1980 as to
be a
> whole other creature. GEOS sadly is a supreme has been. A spec of sand
on
> the beach of desktop GUI's. There was a very short window of chance for
GEOS
> in 1990, and GWRX blew it by not making the SDK freely and readily
> available. The facts today are painfully obvious. There is no denying
those
> facts. GEOS is a nothing but to a small group of folks. I'd venture to
say a
> fraction of a fraction of a percent of PC folks have ever heard of it,
and a
> fraction of that fraction still use it. I'd be amazed if sales of PC/GEOS
> were 100 a year. And I'd be even more amazed if of those, 1% actually
"used"
> it after "playing" with it. It is gone. It is no more. It will never be
> again. I've no problem with folks that use it. I've only a problem with
> those that actually argue it is viable in today's market place. If it
was,
> it would be. As it isn't, it isn't. Simple.

Hehehehe, you are funny, Bob! By putting a wet blanket of "memory constraints"
over all GEOS apps you dismiss the whole package. Well it is an easy way
to dismiss things, either or situation, but I don't see it that way. The
memory constraints shows when multitasking WebMagick and Artist or Writer.
I have had memory constraint problems with running just WebMagick, but after
some use and some tweaking with the memory configuration, I have hardly any
problems with it. XMS turned off, just EMS enabled, and using Motif is the
cure. It works very well. I get from time to time KR-15 out of memory, when  
multitasking with Artist loaded with heavy graphics, or a big document in
Writer, but if I avoid doing this, I have hardly any problems.  Writing this
I have WebMagick open and Newsreader open and it works well. All this doesn't
mean that I don't agree with you. These problems must be solved, so Javascript
and other things can be added to the browser. But the main fix is the flat
memory model, or GEOS 32, without that only small things can be improved.
Well I can't say how big the user group of GEOS is, you might be right about
your assumptions, actually I have no idea. OTOH I still get surprised of
the level of questions regarding getting GWE Ensemble 1.2 or 2.01 running
under Win32....whatever flavour. I get the impression that many users who
bought it back then is still using it , and are quite happy with it. I have
no crystal ball, so I can't make any predictions about the future, I am using
Breadbox Ensemble under the present conditions, and we will see what the
future brings. If John Howard says that there will be a GEOS32 in the later
future, I have to rely on that. Your statements about GEOS is becoming a
mantra that you recite everytime, or canned opinions, when it is actually
so that neiter you or me know nothing about the future, you can make predictions
about it and that is ok and fine for me, but they are what they are. What
will your position be if you are proven wrong?

BTW, did you get the stones CD:s, the last four ones?

BR,
Hans

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by hyubs » Wed, 18 Jun 2003 03:42:10


cream pie "tech support"...  funny reading...
Quote:> Bill Gates Calls the Belgian Police

> Author Unknown

> In a world with justice, the following might have actually happened:

> "Brussels police department, how may I assist you?"

> "Uh.. yes.. I just got hit in the face with a cream pie."

> "Okay, sir. Have you called the Brussels police department before?"

> "No"

> "Well, let me get a little information about you for our records. Your name?"

> "Bill Gates"

> "Country?"

> "The USA"

> "Native language?"

> "English"

> "Okay, sir. Your police department ID number is BP31415927. Please use this number the next time you call. Now, you say you were hit in the face with pie?"

> "Yes, I was just about to meet with the Belgian Prime Minister. One person distracted me while another hit me with a cream pie."

> "We've had other customers report that they were hit in the face with a custard pie. Are you sure it was a cream pie?"

> "Well, I have white stuff all over my face and I don't see any custard, so I really don't think it was a custard pie."

> "Have you visited the Prime Minister before?"

> "Yes"

> "Were you hit in the face with a pie then?"

> "No"

> "Hmm... have you visited any other Prime Ministers in the past month?"

> "Yes"

> "Any pies then?"

> "No"

> "Okay, well.. let's try something. Go outside the building and come in again. I'll wait."

> "Just a minute.." <several minutes pass> "Okay, I'm back."

> "Did you get hit by another pie?"

> "Of course not"

> "Well sir, I don't know what could have caused the first pie, but it looks like things are working fine now. I'll make a note of the problem, though. If it happens again, please note the exact details of the situation and call us again. Thank you for calling the Brussels Police Department." <click>


 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by Bob » Wed, 18 Jun 2003 04:37:51



Quote:> Bill simply went ot nokia to scare the living daylights out of them, so
> they would drop GEOS ( a definite cell phone os threat, and potentially
> a desktop os threat, after further okia development)  and lose time
> regrouping while he scrambled for the next few years to get his windows
> CE on track.

LOL! Oh man! You actually think he gave a frig about GEOS or even knew Nokia
was using it in some of their stuff? Man, you is a strange one. And a
"desktop os threat"!! LOL! What a moron!
 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by Bob » Wed, 18 Jun 2003 04:39:14



Quote:

> BTW, did you get the stones CD:s, the last four ones?

> BR,
> Hans

Yes. And thank you sooo much! Sorry I'd forgotten to write. Thanks again!
 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by hyubs » Wed, 18 Jun 2003 04:42:49


"walkintobestbuyandpurchaseyournextcompaqpcwithoutwindowsandtellmehowmuchlessitcoststhanthesamepcwithwindowspreinstalled"

  You think you could do that in

Quote:> one word?

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by Bob » Wed, 18 Jun 2003 04:48:14


You miss the point again, and again. It is not if you can get a price break
on an OEM PC sans OS, (which you can on-line with Dell:), so that blows your
theory outta the water, again. The question is, "Is the price of the
pre-installed OS, part of the total price one pays for an OEM PC?"

You are really showing just how single-minded, (or mindless), you are with
your failure to answer that one question.

Remember you have stated for all the world to see that the price of the OS
is NOT built into the price of the OEM's PC, and even a child with zero
business sense would laugh at you just as all that are reading your
non-response are. :)


"walkintobestbuyandpurchaseyournextcompaqpcwithoutwindowsandtellmehowmuchles
sitcoststhanthesamepcwithwindowspreinstalled"


>   You think you could do that in
> > one word?

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by Edward Nij » Wed, 18 Jun 2003 04:56:39


It was whipped cream.

If he had visited my province (east of Brussels) it would have been a fruit
pie with cherries ,strawberries, prunes, apples  and peaches with some
whipped cream on top.

He would have had cramps in his tongue cleaning his face.

:-)

Edward Nijs



Quote:> cream pie "tech support"...  funny reading...

> > Bill Gates Calls the Belgian Police

> > Author Unknown

> > In a world with justice, the following might have actually happened:

> > "Brussels police department, how may I assist you?"

> > "Uh.. yes.. I just got hit in the face with a cream pie."

> > "Okay, sir. Have you called the Brussels police department before?"

> > "No"

> > "Well, let me get a little information about you for our records. Your
name?"

> > "Bill Gates"

> > "Country?"

> > "The USA"

> > "Native language?"

> > "English"

> > "Okay, sir. Your police department ID number is BP31415927. Please use

this number the next time you call. Now, you say you were hit in the face
with pie?"
Quote:

> > "Yes, I was just about to meet with the Belgian Prime Minister. One

person distracted me while another hit me with a cream pie."
Quote:

> > "We've had other customers report that they were hit in the face with a

custard pie. Are you sure it was a cream pie?"
Quote:

> > "Well, I have white stuff all over my face and I don't see any custard,

so I really don't think it was a custard pie."

- Show quoted text -

Quote:

> > "Have you visited the Prime Minister before?"

> > "Yes"

> > "Were you hit in the face with a pie then?"

> > "No"

> > "Hmm... have you visited any other Prime Ministers in the past month?"

> > "Yes"

> > "Any pies then?"

> > "No"

> > "Okay, well.. let's try something. Go outside the building and come in
again. I'll wait."

> > "Just a minute.." <several minutes pass> "Okay, I'm back."

> > "Did you get hit by another pie?"

> > "Of course not"

> > "Well sir, I don't know what could have caused the first pie, but it

looks like things are working fine now. I'll make a note of the problem,
though. If it happens again, please note the exact details of the situation
and call us again. Thank you for calling the Brussels Police Department."
<click>

- Show quoted text -

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by Hans Lindgre » Wed, 18 Jun 2003 06:41:16


Well, you have your chance now........If there will be a GEOS32, where will
you be?
You can make a promise and then we'll see........

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

BR,
Hans





> > Just asking you to remove yourselves and all that negativity . It's
so
> > predictable and boring by now.

> I beg to disagree. Its boring to allow this charade to continue, without
> addressing the cold, hard facts. GEOS will never mature as an OS because
its
> so far behind the curve. It would take capital beyond the ability of BBX
to
> make it happen. IBM spent 100s of millions of dollars on OS/2 and failed
to
> win the desktop. They have since embraced Linux for servers and Windows
XP
> for desktops! Very few users want to face facts, they want to pretend
a
> miracle will occur. A few users think that a duplicate of the Linux
> initiative will happen to GEOS. They do not realize that the community
that
> did Linux was Unix centric. They see GEOS as a little DOS GUI that runs
on a
> single chip set. As for GEOS-SC, its not even desktop oriented, because
the
> developers built it from the ground up as a cross-platform OS for
> Smartphones. BBX_John has made it clear. BBX is not going to do anything
> major to the current GEOS and they are working on a new GEOS, but no
> details, its not around the corner, its just an amorphous cloud and an
> enigma to some (me).

> As a GEOS enthusiast, you can look forward to no improvements in the GEOS
> kernel or core applications, that make up the ensemble suite. If that
is all
> you want out of your computing experience, then you will be happy. But
if
> you want more, look elsewhere!

> > It's not necessary to be an extremist in order to like GEOS.  I use
it
> > because it fills most of my needs together with Dos and Win 3.11, is
> > easy to use and doesn't require much hardware. Suits a 486/66 really
> > well. Why enter that costly upgrade spiral when there's no real need
> > for it.

> Like I said, if that's all you want out of your software then you have
no
> beef with me. My only dispute concerns users who think GEOS is going to
> advance beyond its current 16-bit implementation. Why would you want that?
> For one, your Internet apps would run better, unless you think its just
fine
> the way it is NOW. So you are a happy GEOS camper and enjoy life. Don't
> forget to put me in your kill list, like many of the other Europeans who
> despise what I say!

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by Hans Lindgre » Wed, 18 Jun 2003 06:45:37


You speak freely here, but you will not be let in into the third world bar.......
isn't that clear enough?

BR,
Hans


> I know, I would be thrown out for asking questions for which their are
> embarassing answers. A cult group of extremists wants absolutely no dissent.
> Its akin to the government of North Korea where a million people bow in
a
> large space and show their devotion for the current dictator while guards
> are watching to make sure that people's devotion is sincere.



> > I doubt that you will ever be let in.....like in the third world
> bar..........

> > BR,
> > Hans


> > > Helene is a GEOS legend. I've used her stuff back in the early '90s,
> when
> > > people were swarming all over the Geoworks forum on AOL, and I think
she
> > can
> > > take a poke in the ribs without crying. Why did she post in the first
> > place?
> > > Answer: To take a jab, and for no other reason. And she did sign-on
to
> > the
> > > notion that the EXIT is where non believers should head, when its
> clearly
> > > inappropriate for an open public Newsgroup to pretend its a closed
> > > Newsgroup. Now if I posted my feelings on that private Katter site,
I
> > think
> > > it would be like walking into a bar, in a seedy section of some third
> > world
> > > country. Translation: Not too friendly to outsiders, if ya know what
I
> > mean.
> > > <g>





> > > > | Helene,
> > > > |
> > > > | There are only a few of the Geo Extremists left and they are the
> ones
> > > > | who will go down with the ship. One thing about an extremist,
they
> > > > | are hard of hearing and don't read all the words on the page very
> > > > | well. Also, they are, on occasion, purposefully illogical and
> > > > | unwilling to make waves. They don't dance, they goose step. And
> > > > | finally, they have a deep sense of being part of a cult, like
all
> > > > | those poor souls who drank the Kool-Aid at Jones Town.

> > > > Geez, Pat, that's pretty harsh!

> > > > GW users are really just like any other "cults" in some ways. In
the
> > US,
> > > > I've been in many Ford vs Chevy vs Dodge arguments. My cousin likes
> > RV
> > > > camping, I prefer tenting. Some friends of mine prefer taking a
cruise
> > > > to a vacation spot, I prefer to fly. In the long run, as long as
> someone
> > > > does something for their personal enjoyment, then it doesn't really
> > > > matter.

> > > > Personally, will confess to receiving a little guilty pleasure in
> > > > arguing against the die-hard GW users. When I look at my posts over
> > the
> > > > years, and think about my enjoyment in using GW, I'm surprised that
> > I do
> > > > this. I still think that GW is cool, but probably not in the way
that
> > > > Hans and Chip do. Rather, I think that it's cool in the same way
that
> > I
> > > > think my Visual Commuter 8086 1.4mhz  512k dual floppy "portable"
is
> > > > cool. Or the way that I think a 1960's vintage Fiat Spider is cool.
> > It's
> > > > not practical, but the pleasant memory lingers on. My cousin is
> > > > rebuilding an old Datsun 1600 roadster. Not practical for everyday
> use,
> > > > but nice for a spin around the lake on a sunny afternoon.

> > > > Aw, jeez, I just realized that now someone is goign to start on
how
> > GW
> > > > *is* practical for everyday use. Sure, if my cousin only needed
to
> drive
> > > > a couple of miles to the store and back, his Datsun is "practical"
as
> > > > well. But it's only practical for a very limited market. Sadly or
not,
> > > > NDO is not even competiton for the more robust Win and Linux office
> > > > suites (BTW, I just d/loaded OpenOffice, but haven't installed it
> yet),
> > > > and it never will be again. It's long lost the potential to be a
> > > > "contender". Not because it doesn't do what it's supposed to, but
> > > > because the market has moved in a different direction.

> > > > Tom

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by Hans Lindgre » Wed, 18 Jun 2003 06:59:49


Windows = WYSIWYS and WYGIWYG

> GEOS = WYSIWYG   ;-)

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by Hans Lindgre » Wed, 18 Jun 2003 07:01:01


Well I love to use my 736 with Windows.....

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Br,
Hans




> > So? I am still waiting? What do you advise me to do?

> ANSWER:

> I have no idea what makes you tick. If you love GEOS, then keep using
it on
> appropriate systems, like 396s and 486s. I don't know why you would ever
> load it on a contemporary system when it hasn't a clue about any hardware
> that was built later then when Geoworks stopped using it, other than a
> paltry number of device drivers since ND took over.

> Bottom Line: Grow Up and stop clutching to obsolete software. Do I have
to
> tell you the story of the monkey and the ball?

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by Hans Lindgre » Wed, 18 Jun 2003 07:14:57


Nah.....that is just baloney......Nokia does not use any thing Microsoft
and does not taking order from Bill G. They work hard to keep away from them,
and Microsofts cooperation with Ericsson has been a real failure. No wonder
about that.
Ericsson is a company in crisis and Nokia is doing pretty well, away from
Microsoft. Breadbox and Nokia is doing well, together. Well, EPOC was the
initial name of Symbian and Bill Gates did not have anything to do with the
creation of it. Have you heard anything of the computerized refrigirator
from Electrolux/White/Microsoft......probably just another failure..........

BR,
Hans


> Symbian did not exist before that visit, but psion did, as far as i
> recall...

> symbian started in june 1998, so bill gates could not join symbian if
it
> did not exist yet.

> http://www.veryComputer.com/

> while the cream pie was placed against Bills face on feb 4, 1998, 5
> months before symbians birth..

> http://www.veryComputer.com/

> Bill simply went ot nokia to scare the living daylights out of them, so
> they would drop GEOS ( a definite cell phone os threat, and potentially
> a desktop os threat, after further okia development)  and lose time
> regrouping while he scrambled for the next few years to get his windows
> CE on track.

> but you are right about cost sharing with other maufacturers.. it is the
> other manufactureres, motorola, ericsson, etc who for some reason were
> very reluctant to use geos, thus leaving nokia alone in a very lonely
> geos camp, while the rest of the crowd leaned toward psion which led to
> the formation of symbian..



> >>we would probably  be there now had nokia not dumped geos after Bill
G's
> >>famous cream pie in the face european "vacation"

> > Well, I don't think this is correct. Nokia dumped GEOS because it was
real
> > mode. They migrated to Symbian because it was 32-bit and an OS, just
as GEOS,
> > made for CCD:s. Bill G did not have anything to do with this, as he
was trying
> > to join the Symbian project, but the Symbian project did not want Microsoft
> > to join. If Nokia have continued the GEOS road they would have to take
all
> > of the development by themselves. By joining Symbian Noika could share
the
> > develpoment costs with others, and create common standards. I think
that
> > is why they dumped GEOS

> > BR,
> > Hans

> .


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>> That's bollocks mate - where in either the charter or the group FAQ
>> does it state that you are not allowed to discuss the actual film?!
>> And anyway, is the film not *part* of the content?!

> you can talk about whatever the * u wnat mate! - i just skip any
> of the stuff i dont wanna read

> My take on the charter is that you discuss the DVD - not the movie on
> it - like i said you talk about the transfer and stuff and even how
> good the film is etc but *i* personally dont think its the place for
> people to be creating new threads with movie reviews....... (i.e it
> would be OT:)

This was discussed before, and the general consensus was that film
discussions were on topic.

--
StainlessSteelRat
"The longer I live the more I see that I am never wrong about anything,
        and that all the pains that I have so humbly taken to verify my
notions have only wasted my time." -- George Bernard Shaw

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by Hans Lindgre » Wed, 18 Jun 2003 07:17:39


No problem! Hope you enjoyed them........

BR,
Hans




> > BTW, did you get the stones CD:s, the last four ones?

> > BR,
> > Hans

> Yes. And thank you sooo much! Sorry I'd forgotten to write. Thanks again!

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by hyubs » Wed, 18 Jun 2003 08:17:31


Gates had two goals for that visit..  one, to get in bed with nokia so
Nokika would use Microosft software on cell phones...  if that failed,
he was to derail Nokia's efforts at creating a smartphone software
product, using geos as the base, which would compete with his inferior
WinCE based cell phone dreams.

Gates' visit was successful... he gained much valuable time to further
develop his products, geos was dumped and Geoworks  knee capped/mortally
wounded,  nokia had to partner with other manufacturers on
epoch/psion/symbian and basically abandon all the knowledge and skills
developed  for the geos platform and start over using symbian software.


> Nah.....that is just baloney......Nokia does not use any thing Microsoft
> and does not taking order from Bill G. They work hard to keep away from them,
> and Microsofts cooperation with Ericsson has been a real failure.

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by Bob » Wed, 18 Jun 2003 09:09:23


Gates couldn't have a given a micro-seconds worth of thought to GEOS on a
Nokia phone.


> Gates had two goals for that visit..  one, to get in bed with nokia so
> Nokika would use Microosft software on cell phones...  if that failed,
> he was to derail Nokia's efforts at creating a smartphone software
> product, using geos as the base, which would compete with his inferior
> WinCE based cell phone dreams.

> Gates' visit was successful... he gained much valuable time to further
> develop his products, geos was dumped and Geoworks  knee capped/mortally
> wounded,  nokia had to partner with other manufacturers on
> epoch/psion/symbian and basically abandon all the knowledge and skills
> developed  for the geos platform and start over using symbian software.


> > Nah.....that is just baloney......Nokia does not use any thing Microsoft
> > and does not taking order from Bill G. They work hard to keep away from
them,
> > and Microsofts cooperation with Ericsson has been a real failure.