Living in the past

Living in the past

Post by Richard Stein » Mon, 16 Jun 2003 17:55:10



Here in comp.os.geos.misc,



>> Bob appears to be the Timmy Martin clone in the GEOS newsgroup(s)...

>I was thinking that the other day.  All we need now are three more ;-)

No.  No, we don't.  :-)  :-)

--
 -Rich Steiner >>>---> http://www.visi.com/~rsteiner >>>---> Eden Prairie, MN
    OS/2 + BeOS + Linux + Win95 + DOS + PC/GEOS = PC Hobbyist Heaven! :-)
      Now running in text mode on a PPro/200.  Eat my dust, GUI freaks!
                 The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then.

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by Bob » Mon, 16 Jun 2003 22:47:10


Again one has nothing to do with the other. The fact of the matter is that
you made a simply clueless comment that the OS on a pre-installed PC is
free. That is either naive, or stupid, or in your case both. The price of
the OS is included in the total package price. Period. And you can order an
OEM PC sans OS for less then with OS. And no, unless you are a lawyer, and
feel like spending your energies for free to make a point the average Joe
will not get a refund if they remove, or do not use the OS. Again,
pointless, as that is not what the discussion is about. It is only that you
have taken it there as you cannot in any way defend you stupid comment that
the OS is not built into the price of an OEM PC and is therefore FREE! You
can't defend it because you are as usual 100% wrong.


> so *, have you ever gotten a refund forthe money you spent on the
> unwanted microsoft software included with a pc??


> > Hyubso, do you seriously think that the price of the OS is NOT built
into
> > the total price one pays for the PC? How old are you? You do know that
> > Compaq, HP, Acer, Dell and on and on pay a fee for the OS? It is passed
> > along to the end-user in the price of the PC. PERIOD! So for you to say
the
> > end-user did not purchase the OS is just plain stupid. So bottom line,
what
> > would be the motivation for someone to pay for GEOS? Why run, (for lack
of a
> > better term), one OS inside another OS? If it is to use GEOS' DTP apps
then
> > forget it. Star Office, (now OpenOffice), totally blows GEOS' DTP's out
of
> > the water and it is FREE!



> >>ok, smarty, go hire a lawyer and try to collect your refund from
> >>microsoft or the pc vendor.. you will never get it even though you spent
> >>a bundle of time and money trying to collect it....


> >>>Actually silly you. There is a legal clause that does state if you

> > remove

> >>>and or do not want the pre-installed OS you get the money back for the

> > price

> >>>of the OS. So now what's your comeback?



> >>>>silly bob,

> >>>>if you try removing the windows os included with name brand pcs,  you
> >>>>get NO REFUND, so obviously windows does not cost anything, which
means
> >>>>it is free.


> >>>>>That's silly. Even an average Joe knows the price of the PC includes

> > the

> >>>OS.



> >>>>>>99% of people do NOT buy windows.. it is included "free" with the

> >>>>>computer.


> >>>>>>>So folks are going to buy Windows and then buy GEOS? Why?
OpenOffice

> >>>>>blows

> >>>>>>>GEOS apps outta da water and it is FREE!


 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by Bob » Mon, 16 Jun 2003 22:51:40


See no one is arguing that. What we are arguing is that folks like yourself
state that GEOS is state of the art, or viable in today's marketplace. It is
NOT! NO ONE is interested in it. It doesn't have anything the average PC
user of today wants. It is no longer in production or development. It
doesn't support any of today's hardware, (USB, Firewire.) It has zero
multimedia capabilities. It runs zero currently produced software. It is
nothing but an old legacy app. For the fraction of a percent of folks that
would ever be happy with that, then go ahead. The rest of the world is happy
with indoor plumbing. If you still wanna shit in the woods and wipe yourself
with an oak leaf go ahead, because that is what GEOS is to modern day PC's.



Quote:> ***As a GEOS enthusiast, you can look forward to no improvements in the
GEOS
> kernel or core applications, that make up the ensemble suite. If that is
all
> you want out of your computing experience, then you will be happy. But if
> you want more, look elsewhere!***

> Is a user necessarily an enthusiast? Is an enthusiast a hobbyist? Is a
hobbyist
> a user outside of the hobby? I submit a user doesn't necessarily need more
than
> he/she has and is happy with, as long as it continues to improve in useful
> ways.

> GEOS has improved in useful ways since 1.2 to the satisfaction of many
people.
> It could be better, but that is not critical to it's usefulness. It will
> continue to improve unless no one markets it at all.

> Chip Blank
> GUI
> GeoGrafix

> The GEOS Users International website is at:
> http://hometown.aol.com/GUIUSA/GUI_USA.html

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by hyubs » Tue, 17 Jun 2003 05:31:27


yawn...

its neither naive or stupid, it is the truth.

if you can't get a refund for something that is newly purchsaed adn
unused, you obviously never paid for it.


> Again one has nothing to do with the other. The fact of the matter is that
> you made a simply clueless comment that the OS on a pre-installed PC is
> free. That is either naive, or stupid, or in your case both. The price of
> the OS is included in the total package price. Period. And you can order an
> OEM PC sans OS for less then with OS. And no, unless you are a lawyer, and
> feel like spending your energies for free to make a point the average Joe
> will not get a refund if they remove, or do not use the OS. Again,
> pointless, as that is not what the discussion is about. It is only that you
> have taken it there as you cannot in any way defend you stupid comment that
> the OS is not built into the price of an OEM PC and is therefore FREE! You
> can't defend it because you are as usual 100% wrong.



>>so *, have you ever gotten a refund forthe money you spent on the
>>unwanted microsoft software included with a pc??


>>>Hyubso, do you seriously think that the price of the OS is NOT built

> into

>>>the total price one pays for the PC? How old are you? You do know that
>>>Compaq, HP, Acer, Dell and on and on pay a fee for the OS? It is passed
>>>along to the end-user in the price of the PC. PERIOD! So for you to say

> the

>>>end-user did not purchase the OS is just plain stupid. So bottom line,

> what

>>>would be the motivation for someone to pay for GEOS? Why run, (for lack

> of a

>>>better term), one OS inside another OS? If it is to use GEOS' DTP apps

> then

>>>forget it. Star Office, (now OpenOffice), totally blows GEOS' DTP's out

> of

>>>the water and it is FREE!



>>>>ok, smarty, go hire a lawyer and try to collect your refund from
>>>>microsoft or the pc vendor.. you will never get it even though you spent
>>>>a bundle of time and money trying to collect it....


>>>>>Actually silly you. There is a legal clause that does state if you

>>>remove

>>>>>and or do not want the pre-installed OS you get the money back for the

>>>price

>>>>>of the OS. So now what's your comeback?



>>>>>>silly bob,

>>>>>>if you try removing the windows os included with name brand pcs,  you
>>>>>>get NO REFUND, so obviously windows does not cost anything, which

> means

>>>>>>it is free.


>>>>>>>That's silly. Even an average Joe knows the price of the PC includes

>>>the

>>>>>OS.



>>>>>>>>99% of people do NOT buy windows.. it is included "free" with the

>>>>>>>computer.


>>>>>>>>>So folks are going to buy Windows and then buy GEOS? Why?

> OpenOffice

>>>>>>>blows

>>>>>>>>>GEOS apps outta da water and it is FREE!

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by Bob » Tue, 17 Jun 2003 07:05:17



he can be:


Quote:> if you can't get a refund for something that is newly purchsaed adn
> unused, you obviously never paid for it.

What! What kind of a logical thought process is that? So just answer this
ok? Is the price of the OS built into the price one pays for an OEM
pre-installed PC?

The answer dumb ass is, YES! Period. End of discussion. The only thing you
have shown in this post is just how truly stupid you can be.

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by hyubs » Tue, 17 Jun 2003 09:04:57


well bob, i dare you to get a refund on an oem copy of windows..  if you
ever succeed, you can tell us here how much money you got back, and how
much time adn money you spent trying to collect the refund

The difference between these two figures will tell us how much you paid
for it.  (chances are strong the result will be a negative number!)

ta ta!



> he can be:


>>if you can't get a refund for something that is newly purchsaed adn
>>unused, you obviously never paid for it.

> What! What kind of a logical thought process is that? So just answer this
> ok? Is the price of the OS built into the price one pays for an OEM
> pre-installed PC?

> The answer dumb ass is, YES! Period. End of discussion. The only thing you
> have shown in this post is just how truly stupid you can be.

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by Holger La » Tue, 17 Jun 2003 19:40:39


So? I am still waiting? What do you advise me to do?

Holger


>I think you are confused about what you are. I know I am. ROTFL!




>> >There are only a few of the Geo Extremists left and they are the ones who
>> >will go down with the ship. One thing about an extremist, they are hard
>of
>> >hearing and don't read all the words on the page very well. Also, they
>are,
>> >on occasion, purposefully illogical and unwilling to make waves. They
>don't
>> >dance, they goose step. And finally, they have a deep sense of being part
>of
>> >a cult, like all those poor souls who drank the Kool-Aid at Jones Town.

>> And what's your personal conclusion? What do you advise me to do?

>> Still waiting for a new tune to goose-step to...

>> Holger

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by Pat » Wed, 18 Jun 2003 00:43:33


Firstly, every machine I have owned was built by my hands as a custom setup,
because I always want a specific blend of hardware and its easier to just
put it together myself and when I get the motherboard, I pay for the OEM
license of the OS.

Using your latest silly rant, which appears to be aimed at others, if I were
a user buying a PC and expecting Windows XP and a suite of Office Apps, I
would purchase based on the particular composition of hardware and software.
I've seen some people in stores that were on the bubble as far as what
software they wanted pre-packaged by the manufacturer, when they liked both
PCs the same.

NOT ALL PCs HAVE THE SAME COMBO OF APPS.

In addition, just about every manufacturer includes a CD that has all the
pre-packaged software for re-building your system. Usually, the pre-packaged
Office Suites are on that disk set, too. OEM systems are different.

Regards the software, most software companies want to practically give away
their Office Suites to entice you to upgrade. This is not unlike any
entreuprenal effort. Geoworks sold a number of Upgrades to GEOS Ensemble and
NDO, too.

The real shame is that GEOS will have no significant upgrade for its Office
Suite.

GEOS = WYSIWYG   ;-)


> ok pat, tell us all about how you got a refund on any unwanted microsoft
> software shipped on a pc you bought.

> microsoft is so skilled at selling things people don't even want...  too
> bad geworks never had this skill.


> > Give up. He's clueless. Posts messages like a pre-*.



> >>Hyubso, do you seriously think that the price of the OS is NOT built
into
> >>the total price one pays for the PC? How old are you? You do know that
> >>Compaq, HP, Acer, Dell and on and on pay a fee for the OS? It is passed
> >>along to the end-user in the price of the PC. PERIOD! So for you to say

> > the

> >>end-user did not purchase the OS is just plain stupid. So bottom line,

> > what

> >>would be the motivation for someone to pay for GEOS? Why run, (for lack
of

> > a

> >>better term), one OS inside another OS? If it is to use GEOS' DTP apps

> > then

> >>forget it. Star Office, (now OpenOffice), totally blows GEOS' DTP's out
of
> >>the water and it is FREE!



> >>>ok, smarty, go hire a lawyer and try to collect your refund from
> >>>microsoft or the pc vendor.. you will never get it even though you
spent
> >>>a bundle of time and money trying to collect it....


> >>>>Actually silly you. There is a legal clause that does state if you

> >>remove

> >>>>and or do not want the pre-installed OS you get the money back for the

> >>price

> >>>>of the OS. So now what's your comeback?



> >>>>>silly bob,

> >>>>>if you try removing the windows os included with name brand pcs,  you
> >>>>>get NO REFUND, so obviously windows does not cost anything, which

> > means

> >>>>>it is free.


> >>>>>>That's silly. Even an average Joe knows the price of the PC includes

> >>the

> >>>>OS.



> >>>>>>>99% of people do NOT buy windows.. it is included "free" with the

> >>>>>>computer.


> >>>>>>>>So folks are going to buy Windows and then buy GEOS? Why?

> > OpenOffice

> >>>>>>blows

> >>>>>>>>GEOS apps outta da water and it is FREE!

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by Pat » Wed, 18 Jun 2003 00:52:00


Get a new Mac and a yellow VW, with a rose in the flower holder.


> So? I am still waiting? What do you advise me to do?

> Holger


> >I think you are confused about what you are. I know I am. ROTFL!




> >> >There are only a few of the Geo Extremists left and they are the ones
who
> >> >will go down with the ship. One thing about an extremist, they are
hard
> >of
> >> >hearing and don't read all the words on the page very well. Also, they
> >are,
> >> >on occasion, purposefully illogical and unwilling to make waves. They
> >don't
> >> >dance, they goose step. And finally, they have a deep sense of being
part
> >of
> >> >a cult, like all those poor souls who drank the Kool-Aid at Jones
Town.

> >> And what's your personal conclusion? What do you advise me to do?

> >> Still waiting for a new tune to goose-step to...

> >> Holger

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by Pat » Wed, 18 Jun 2003 00:59:26



Quote:> So? I am still waiting? What do you advise me to do?

ANSWER:

I have no idea what makes you tick. If you love GEOS, then keep using it on
appropriate systems, like 396s and 486s. I don't know why you would ever
load it on a contemporary system when it hasn't a clue about any hardware
that was built later then when Geoworks stopped using it, other than a
paltry number of device drivers since ND took over.

Bottom Line: Grow Up and stop clutching to obsolete software. Do I have to
tell you the story of the monkey and the ball?

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by Holger La » Wed, 18 Jun 2003 02:33:04



>> So? I am still waiting? What do you advise me to do?
>If you love GEOS, then keep using it on appropriate systems [...]
>Grow Up and stop clutching to obsolete software.

???

You are contradicting yourself.

Holger

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by hyubs » Wed, 18 Jun 2003 03:01:40


Since when does buying a new version of windows make someone presumably
an *???

> Bottom Line: Grow Up and stop clutching to obsolete software.

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by Hans Lindgre » Wed, 18 Jun 2003 02:58:40



> we would probably  be there now had nokia not dumped geos after Bill G's
> famous cream pie in the face european "vacation"

Well, I don't think this is correct. Nokia dumped GEOS because it was real
mode. They migrated to Symbian because it was 32-bit and an OS, just as GEOS,
made for CCD:s. Bill G did not have anything to do with this, as he was trying
to join the Symbian project, but the Symbian project did not want Microsoft
to join. If Nokia have continued the GEOS road they would have to take all
of the development by themselves. By joining Symbian Noika could share the
develpoment costs with others, and create common standards. I think that
is why they dumped GEOS

BR,

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by Bob » Wed, 18 Jun 2003 03:07:41


Let me repeat again, and again. The discussion in NOT about getting a
refund. Do you get it yet? You stated as fact that the OS on an OEM's
pre-installed PC is FREE. It is NOT. It is built into the price of the PC. I
have no idea why you keep rambling on about getting a refund. I have already
stated that although legally the consumer is entitled to a refund under
certain conditions if one chooses not to use the pre-installed OS, actually
getting it is another story. Now try with what little brain you seem to have
to follow the thought process. Here it is. Simply answer this. Is the price
of the pre-installed OS built into the total price a consumer pays when said
consumer purchases a pre-installed OEM PC? You think you could do that in
one word?


> well bob, i dare you to get a refund on an oem copy of windows..  if you
> ever succeed, you can tell us here how much money you got back, and how
> much time adn money you spent trying to collect the refund

> The difference between these two figures will tell us how much you paid
> for it.  (chances are strong the result will be a negative number!)

> ta ta!



stupid
> > he can be:


> >>if you can't get a refund for something that is newly purchsaed adn
> >>unused, you obviously never paid for it.

> > What! What kind of a logical thought process is that? So just answer
this
> > ok? Is the price of the OS built into the price one pays for an OEM
> > pre-installed PC?

> > The answer dumb ass is, YES! Period. End of discussion. The only thing
you
> > have shown in this post is just how truly stupid you can be.

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by hyubs » Wed, 18 Jun 2003 03:38:27


Symbian did not exist before that visit, but psion did, as far as i
recall...

symbian started in june 1998, so bill gates could not join symbian if it
did not exist yet.

http://www.symbian.com/about/about.html

while the cream pie was placed against Bills face on feb 4, 1998, 5
months before symbians birth..

http://www.bitstorm.org/gates/

Bill simply went ot nokia to scare the living daylights out of them, so
they would drop GEOS ( a definite cell phone os threat, and potentially
a desktop os threat, after further okia development)  and lose time
regrouping while he scrambled for the next few years to get his windows
CE on track.

but you are right about cost sharing with other maufacturers.. it is the
other manufactureres, motorola, ericsson, etc who for some reason were
very reluctant to use geos, thus leaving nokia alone in a very lonely
geos camp, while the rest of the crowd leaned toward psion which led to
the formation of symbian..



>>we would probably  be there now had nokia not dumped geos after Bill G's
>>famous cream pie in the face european "vacation"

> Well, I don't think this is correct. Nokia dumped GEOS because it was real
> mode. They migrated to Symbian because it was 32-bit and an OS, just as GEOS,
> made for CCD:s. Bill G did not have anything to do with this, as he was trying
> to join the Symbian project, but the Symbian project did not want Microsoft
> to join. If Nokia have continued the GEOS road they would have to take all
> of the development by themselves. By joining Symbian Noika could share the
> develpoment costs with others, and create common standards. I think that
> is why they dumped GEOS

> BR,
> Hans