Living in the past

Living in the past

Post by Bob » Thu, 12 Jun 2003 07:58:44




Quote:

> There is no logical connection between market share and quality.

> As a possible counterexample, Ferrari has a very small percentage of
> the automobile market, but that (by itself) is not a fair indicator
> of the quality or performance of that company's product line.

Apples to oranges. If GEOS was of value to home users it would sell. Period.
You can dance around all you want. Again, the proof is there. PC/GEOS since
its' inception has done squat in the market. Every, EVERY company that has
touched it has failed with it. Period. If you don't wish to accept the FACTS
just say so.
 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by hyubs » Thu, 12 Jun 2003 09:29:50


baloney...

if windows was of $99 per license value, it should be put in boxes on
store shelves, and let geos be preloaded on computer hard drives so it
is included "free" with the computer

that's what we need more of.. more geos  preloaded INSTEAD of linux, on
the hard drives of  windowsless PCs, and just include a windows drivers
disk inside the box for those who want to install their own $99 copy of
windows..

This is what should have been done with the myturn box  . it would have
sold like hotcakes.. lowest cost windows compatible/upgradeable pc on
the market, but with 'try it you'll like it" geos preloaded.

 > Bobo wrote

Quote:> Apples to oranges. If GEOS was of value to home users it would sell. Period.


 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by hyubs » Thu, 12 Jun 2003 09:30:17


why are you here???

> Why did you even reply?



>>***> Bob, that is like saying 'I work for NASA. Slow single prop aircraft

> serve

>>no

>>>purpose.'
>>>I can think of many uses for such obsolete craft.
>>>Chip Blank

>>Not at all. For a, (for lack of a better word), desktop OS to be a
>>competitor in today's market it must meet certain standards. GEOS meets

> NONE

>>of today's standards.
>>***

>>Compete at what level? What standards?
>>Be careful...one shoe fits all thinking doesn't work for everyone.

>>Chip Blank
>>GUI
>>GeoGrafix

>>The GEOS Users International website is at:
>>http://hometown.aol.com/GUIUSA/GUI_USA.html

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by Bob » Thu, 12 Jun 2003 09:40:04


The more I read your replies it becomes very apparent your nuts! There isn't
an OEM on the planet that would "pre-install" GEOS! LOL!!! Christ, that is
sooooo dddduuuummmmbbbb!!!!!

As an aside, you remember how much New Deal was charging!! How about
Breadbox Ensemble! I could see $25, but the price point both companies
were/are charging is a sin.


Quote:> baloney...

> if windows was of $99 per license value, it should be put in boxes on
> store shelves, and let geos be preloaded on computer hard drives so it
> is included "free" with the computer

> that's what we need more of.. more geos  preloaded INSTEAD of linux, on
> the hard drives of  windowsless PCs, and just include a windows drivers
> disk inside the box for those who want to install their own $99 copy of
> windows..

> This is what should have been done with the myturn box  . it would have
> sold like hotcakes.. lowest cost windows compatible/upgradeable pc on
> the market, but with 'try it you'll like it" geos preloaded.

>  > Bobo wrote
> > Apples to oranges. If GEOS was of value to home users it would sell.
Period.

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by Bob » Thu, 12 Jun 2003 09:40:51


Humans have been asking that since the dawn of time. I didn't think you were
heavy enough to ask. You're here for cereal boxes as far as I can guess.


> why are you here???


> > Why did you even reply?



> >>***> Bob, that is like saying 'I work for NASA. Slow single prop
aircraft

> > serve

> >>no

> >>>purpose.'
> >>>I can think of many uses for such obsolete craft.
> >>>Chip Blank

> >>Not at all. For a, (for lack of a better word), desktop OS to be a
> >>competitor in today's market it must meet certain standards. GEOS meets

> > NONE

> >>of today's standards.
> >>***

> >>Compete at what level? What standards?
> >>Be careful...one shoe fits all thinking doesn't work for everyone.

> >>Chip Blank
> >>GUI
> >>GeoGrafix

> >>The GEOS Users International website is at:
> >>http://hometown.aol.com/GUIUSA/GUI_USA.html

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by Pat » Thu, 12 Jun 2003 12:03:45


Bob,

I have to disagree with you and agree with CB2 on this one.

Instead of zero (0.0000000000000000), which leaves no wiggle room and
doesn't factor in the 24 GEOS Extremists who would take a second mortgage on
their homes to buy any upgrade, even if someone changed the fonts on all the
menus in Manager....Why not upgrade that to 0.00000008, which is 24 out of
300,000,000 people, a sloppy approximation, at best. ;-)


> Why did you even reply?



> > ***Bob says...GWRX dropped it. ***
> > GWRX was always weak on marketing. I have seen this before in other
areas.
> > Great product, lousy marketing, results in product and/or company
failure.

> > ***New Deal gone. MyTurn gone. GlobalPC gone.***
> > New Deal was also plagued by inadequate marketing, and their nail in the
> coffin
> > was the hookup with a financially troubled (although not known until
> later)
> > MyTurn, not to mention the inopportune downturn in the economy. Global
PC
> was
> > part of that I believe.

> > ***Brother dropped it.***
> > Brother had a good idea but charged too much. Overpricing is a killer.

> > *** Ogo gone.***
> > I never followed the PDA thing much.
> > ***Sales, zero. Marketing, zero. Market, zero. ***
> > Absolutely incorrect.

> > Chip Blank
> > GUI
> > GeoGrafix

> > The GEOS Users International website is at:
> > http://hometown.aol.com/GUIUSA/GUI_USA.html

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by Pat » Thu, 12 Jun 2003 12:06:18


Holger, you remind me of Cinderellas's sister who practically cut of their
big toe to fit the glass slipper on their foot. Translation: You're logic is
contrived!



> >To stir trouble, for that end goal, is an abuse of newsgroup rules, IMHO.
To
> >disagree vehemently with another person's opinion is not an abuse.

> It depends. Of course, all trouble-stirrers are adament that they only
> "disagree vehemently". The main point is IMO how this is perceived by
> the other members of the group, namely, if this disagreement is seen
> as a constructive contribution or not.

> For a laugh, have a look at soc.culture.german and watch those posters
> "vehemently denying" that the Holocaust ever happaned. You can even
> get into some sort of discussion with them, but you'll soon realise
> that they are not looking for answers or solutions at all, just having
> fun leading you round in circles.

> Sorry, Pat, but for me you are of the same category.

> >Maybe you
> >think its normal to goose step to the same old tune around here,

> Go on, give me a new tune to goose-step to.

> >but I think
> >its more normal to say, "Where is this GEOS headed and why has nothing
> >happened in years, and why should everyone who once loved this product
> >suddenly believe that things are any different".

> So, now you put out your rhetorical questions. Who do you expect to
> answer and what kind answer are you looking for?

> Please outline your case, Sir, we are waiting for your advice.

> Holger

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by hyubs » Thu, 12 Jun 2003 14:01:23


well bob, it is you who is nuts....

didn't nokia preinstall geos on the 9xxx series phone??
didn't other manufacturers preinstall geos on other products?

yes bob you are 99% nuts adn really dumbbbbbbb, and your only sane
comment concerned new deal and breadbox pricing..

ha ha ha ha ha


> The more I read your replies it becomes very apparent your nuts! There isn't
> an OEM on the planet that would "pre-install" GEOS! LOL!!! Christ, that is
> sooooo dddduuuummmmbbbb!!!!!

> As an aside, you remember how much New Deal was charging!! How about
> Breadbox Ensemble! I could see $25, but the price point both companies
> were/are charging is a sin.

> "

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by Richard Stein » Thu, 12 Jun 2003 15:29:48



spake unto us, saying:

Quote:>why are you here???

Bob appears to be the Timmy Martin close in the GEOS newsgroup(s)...

--
 -Rich Steiner >>>---> http://www.visi.com/~rsteiner >>>---> Eden Prairie, MN
    OS/2 + BeOS + Linux + Win95 + DOS + PC/GEOS = PC Hobbyist Heaven! :-)
      Now running in text mode on a PPro/200.  Eat my dust, GUI freaks!
                 The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then.

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by Richard Stein » Thu, 12 Jun 2003 15:10:16





>> There is no logical connection between market share and quality.

>> As a possible counterexample, Ferrari has a very small percentage of
>> the automobile market, but that (by itself) is not a fair indicator
>> of the quality or performance of that company's product line.

>Apples to oranges. If GEOS was of value to home users it would sell.
>Period.

GEOS doesn't sell for two reasons (one huge, and one lesser):

(1) The DOJ antitrust case and government "victory" notwithstanding, the
    PC desktop OS market is still a near-absolute monopoly controlled by
    a single entity, namely Microsoft.  Windows rules the desktop.

    The only desktop platform making inroads AT ALL against Microsoft's
    heavily entrenched (and government-blessed) position is Linux, an
    operating system developed completely outside the marketplace (and
    hence completely immune from the financial dependencies that any
    commercial software developer tends to be limited by).

    No other commercially-developed alternatives are selling any better
    than GEOS is in today's marketplace, at least in terms of effective
    market share.

(2) GEOS has no exposure.  It isn't even well known even when compared
    to other alternatives like BeOS, OS/2, or Linux, and most computer
    users aren't aware of the first two either.

    The lack of success universally enjoyed by other vendors indicates,
    to me, that GEOS would fail due to #1 even if #2 were not true.

Quote:>You can dance around all you want. Again, the proof is there. PC/GEOS
>since its' inception has done squat in the market.

I'm talking about functionality, you're talking about market share.

Apples and oranges.

Quote:>If you don't wish to accept the FACTS just say so.

I'm not questioning your general assessment of GEOS's share of the PC
desktop market (almost nonexistent), but I believe that small share is
the result of recent (past decade) history, not the result of any sort
of technical failing on the part of GEOS.

Babble all you want -- Microsoft still controls the desktop, and still
continues to thwart all comers.

--
 -Rich Steiner >>>---> http://www.visi.com/~rsteiner >>>---> Eden Prairie, MN
    OS/2 + BeOS + Linux + Win95 + DOS + PC/GEOS = PC Hobbyist Heaven! :-)
      Now running in text mode on a PPro/200.  Eat my dust, GUI freaks!
                 The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then.

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by Richard Stein » Thu, 12 Jun 2003 16:27:04



spake unto us, saying:

Quote:>why are you here???

Bob appears to be the Timmy Martin clone in the GEOS newsgroup(s)...

--
 -Rich Steiner >>>---> http://www.visi.com/~rsteiner >>>---> Eden Prairie, MN
    OS/2 + BeOS + Linux + Win95 + DOS + PC/GEOS = PC Hobbyist Heaven! :-)
      Now running in text mode on a PPro/200.  Eat my dust, GUI freaks!
                 The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then.

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by Holger La » Thu, 12 Jun 2003 19:04:20



>Holger, you remind me of Cinderellas's sister who practically cut of their
>big toe to fit the glass slipper on their foot. Translation: You're logic is
>contrived!

So, that's the end of that then.

No new tune ... I am disappointed!

Holger

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by Tom Accuost » Fri, 13 Jun 2003 03:18:00




| spake unto us, saying:
|
|| Well the proof is in the pudding. GEOS has at best a small fraction
|| of a percent of the desktop market.
|
| There is no logical connection between market share and quality.

Well, that's not exactly true. Or rather, the variables are so, well,
varied that you can't always draw an A>B>C conclusion.

Economic theories would suggest that the "connection" is that consumers
buy something that they *perceive* to be a greater value. For example,
even if GeoDeal were a rock-solid app on top of some rock-solid DOS
version (which was never the case), they still might look at the lack of
features or upgradeability in comparison to what they could get with
Windows or Linux and deide that they are willing to trade *what they
perceive to be* functionality for stability.

| As a possible counterexample, Ferrari has a very small percentage of
| the automobile market, but that (by itself) is not a fair indicator
| of the quality or performance of that company's product line.

See, that's not really a good example, either. Ferrari has a *perceived*
value that's born out by the marketplace. Hell, diamond rings are
virtually worthless decorations, but most women seem to like them, which
means that most men spend 2 to 4 months of their salary on them. The
perceived value is worth considerably more than the intrinsic value.

| There is a large difference between "state of the art" and "useful",
| and it is the latter that I see GEOS as being, not the former.

I don't think that anybody is areguing that NewWorks isn't useful
(except maybe Bob); I think that what you're seeing is somem people
pointing out that Geos is now so far behind the curve that it's not
economically feasible for anyone to develop it any further. From my
perspective, it's a neat hobby, but no longer practical for real-world
use anymore.

Tom

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by Bob » Fri, 13 Jun 2003 05:04:55


LOL! OK.  0.00000008 % is too high but....not split hairs. :)


> Bob,

> I have to disagree with you and agree with CB2 on this one.

> Instead of zero (0.0000000000000000), which leaves no wiggle room and
> doesn't factor in the 24 GEOS Extremists who would take a second mortgage
on
> their homes to buy any upgrade, even if someone changed the fonts on all
the
> menus in Manager....Why not upgrade that to 0.00000008, which is 24 out of
> 300,000,000 people, a sloppy approximation, at best. ;-)



> > Why did you even reply?



> > > ***Bob says...GWRX dropped it. ***
> > > GWRX was always weak on marketing. I have seen this before in other
> areas.
> > > Great product, lousy marketing, results in product and/or company
> failure.

> > > ***New Deal gone. MyTurn gone. GlobalPC gone.***
> > > New Deal was also plagued by inadequate marketing, and their nail in
the
> > coffin
> > > was the hookup with a financially troubled (although not known until
> > later)
> > > MyTurn, not to mention the inopportune downturn in the economy. Global
> PC
> > was
> > > part of that I believe.

> > > ***Brother dropped it.***
> > > Brother had a good idea but charged too much. Overpricing is a killer.

> > > *** Ogo gone.***
> > > I never followed the PDA thing much.
> > > ***Sales, zero. Marketing, zero. Market, zero. ***
> > > Absolutely incorrect.

> > > Chip Blank
> > > GUI
> > > GeoGrafix

> > > The GEOS Users International website is at:
> > > http://hometown.aol.com/GUIUSA/GUI_USA.html

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by Bob » Fri, 13 Jun 2003 05:06:39


Sad. You are so outta touch with the marketplace and PC's. As I don't suffer
fools lightly I'll not bother even trying to reply to your posts. They are
so off the wall as to lead one to think you need medical help.


> well bob, it is you who is nuts....

> didn't nokia preinstall geos on the 9xxx series phone??
> didn't other manufacturers preinstall geos on other products?

> yes bob you are 99% nuts adn really dumbbbbbbb, and your only sane
> comment concerned new deal and breadbox pricing..

> ha ha ha ha ha


> > The more I read your replies it becomes very apparent your nuts! There
isn't
> > an OEM on the planet that would "pre-install" GEOS! LOL!!! Christ, that
is
> > sooooo dddduuuummmmbbbb!!!!!

> > As an aside, you remember how much New Deal was charging!! How about
> > Breadbox Ensemble! I could see $25, but the price point both companies
> > were/are charging is a sin.

> > "