Living in the past

Living in the past

Post by Tom Accuost » Fri, 04 Jul 2003 06:16:58




||| PS. Sorry for chopping your posting down, but this was subject I
||| felt a need to answer DS.
||
||
|| Hey, chop away - I know that some of what I say is irrelevant.
|
| Nope, I didn't say that, but I had nothing to comment on that ;-)

Hey, if nothing else, I'll at least admit that I'm bickering <g>

|
|| I really beleive that most average home users (i.e., letters, email,
|| photos, checkbook balancing, etc.) can pretty much buy a decent PC,
|| plug it in and drrrrrrrrrive. As long as they stick with relatively
|| mainstream apps and brand name components, there's very little reason
|| that they can't have months or years with no problems.
|
| Can they without customizing IE? I doubt that.

I'm a tweaker, so I customize my IE6; but that's me. I'm like a few
others on this group who enjoys getting under the hood (there's that car
analogy again) and fooling with the components. But my wifes' machine
(see below) is not tweaked. Just about all fo the settings are default,
mainly because I don't want to have to teach her anything. She should be
able to go from her work machine to home without noticing any changes
(IMO) or having to do things differently.

But that is the
| smallest problem. Windows tends also to fragment the drives heaviliy,
| especially in Windows 98 and ME, also noted in NT4 and Windows 2000.
| Can't say anything about XP as I have no experience of it in XP yet.
| Some years ago I was having some fun running Norton Speeddisk on a
| NT4 system, which been i production for a couple of years. Speeddisk
| reported it to be heavily fragmented, so I defragmented it. Well I
| also turned out that Speeddisk did an optimization of the data, and
| putting it on diffrent places on the disk according to how it was
| accessed, and man it was a big difference! The computer felt as
| reborned and new after the optimization.

Sure, but we might say that defragging is "routine" maintenance, moreso
for heavy users. But in actuality, basic users probably can get by for
years without defragging.

There is four simple advices
| I would give a homeuser in maintaining their computer:
|
| 1) Install a Anti-Virus software (good one (free for personal use)
| at: www.grisoft.de).
|
| 2) Customize IE
|
| 3) Defragment the harddisk in safe mode, four times a year
|
| 4) Run Scandisk in safe mode, if prompted

I bought Norton Utilities for the better defragging and the AV, of
course. Win has their own hard drive defragger that is only a very basic
utility. Norton's is much better (although I read that MS licensed their
technology from Norton a few years back), and as you noticed, you can
customize where files and folders are stored.

|| Yes, after some period, they'll need support. Lightning fries a
|| modem. Hard drive gets really fragmented. They fall for the latest
|| AOHell upgrade. But let me go back to the car analogy: you need to
|| bring it in for periodic maintenance, change the transmission fluid
|| or some belts, etc., but if you are careful with it, then rarely do
|| things break down
| a
|| lot.
|
| Well, I don't know if you car analogy is water proof,

If you want waterproof, I'd be using the "boat" analogy...

| Do nothing, have a look at it in a year or two! Bet you will say, it
| doesn't feel the same way as it did when it was new.
| Then defragment it, and see what happens.......nah........don't do
| it, defragment it periodically. Well, I think that Dell is a good
| choice as long as the harddrive is mounted a proper way.

But again, I'd be defragging every month or two anyway, since I'm a
pretty heavy user, and usually have several programs running at once,
chewing up lots of data, etc.

| Sidenote: My youngest son's Dell broke down yesterday, the harddrive
| sounded like woody woodpecker moved in. Open the chassis and found
| the harddisk mounted in the most unconventional way, I have seen.

Funny. I bought a Dell laptop because PC magazine usually rates them
pretty high in reliability. Never looked at the desktop systems.

Tom

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by Tom Accuost » Fri, 04 Jul 2003 06:17:04



|| Not a good analogy to software. In the case of Windows or Office,
|| you are using lots of code that has common links to other code. Its
|| a really tight coupling under the hood.
|
|
| but not at all as tight a coupling as in geos, which has has this
| since its inception 10+ years ago, wouldn't you agree?

I'd have to agree here, but as to GEOS: what have you done for me
lately? That is, it was great technology, but it's now very, very basic.

|| What I am reading is extreme jealousy for a real OS that covers all
|| bases
|
| sounds like the one hamburger that  satisfies everyones taste buds --
| no need  for steak or ice cream in the windows world.

Do you realize that to me, this is the same impression that I get from
Chip, you, and a few others? IOW, that there's no "need" for people to
do anything other than what can be done with GEOS? Just an impression.

| my brother cannot figure out how to use windows xp cd writing
| features.. it is too weird for him..  what he really needs is NERO, a
| well designed easy to use product for writing CDs  in Windows

I like Roxio (formerly Adaptec). But should I point out that at least
one *has* an option to burn CD's in Windows, unlike in a certain
un-named DOS suite?

Tom

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by Tom Accuost » Fri, 04 Jul 2003 06:17:10



|| I just bought a refurbed Dell Inspiron, and it came with XP Home and
|| a few other things already installed. It ran just fine.
|
|
| just like the GPC i recently purchased...

Cool! I just downloaded some Ted Nugent mp3's with KaZaa (and listened
to them after download) while I was reading my favorite NG's and
replying offline. My AOL IM window let me know that a few friends were
online and we traded some jokes. Then I used Corel 8 to modify a graphic
for a newsletter that I'm doing in Word while I burned a CD-RW with
mp3's. Finally, I synched my Visor Prism to back up my dates.

I'll bet I was just as happy to use my machine as you were to use yours.

--
Tom

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by Bob » Fri, 04 Jul 2003 09:02:11


LOL! Yeah the DOJ thing vaporized as quickly as 32-bit GEOS!


> << In the case of Windows or Office, you are using lots of code that has
common
> links to other code. Its a really tight coupling under the hood. One
particular
> option, although not used specifically by you, may share the same code
that is
> used by another option that you do use. >>

> Aye, there's the rub... Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't that the key
"bone
> of contention" vis-a-vis the DOJ vs. MS lawsuit? "Jealousy"???  That's a
real
> stretch for sure! If I "like" a particular utility program for sake of
> discussion, I object be being required to purchase the "whole enchilada"
when I
> will not use nor derive any benefit from that. That it has become
ubiquitous
> (regardless of the reason), still makes me gag. Yes - the "marketplace"
has
> spoken -- no argument there. The methodology to get it to that point is
what we
> are having reams & reams & ream of discussion about...  :-)

> Ray

> >Subject: Re: Living in the past

> >Date: 7/1/03 3:23 PM Pacific Daylight Time

> >Not a good analogy to software. In the case of Windows or Office, you are
> >using lots of code that has common links to other code. Its a really
tight
> >coupling under the hood. One particular option, although not used
> >specifically by you, may share the same code that is used by another
option
> >that you do use. In fact, most of Windows XP uses the Object model of
> >reusable common code.

> >What I am reading is extreme jealousy for a real OS that covers all bases
> >and has Billions invested in Software Engineering that obviates the need,
in
> >most cases, to spend extra money for ancillary software, from Recording
on
> >CDs, Faxing, to Drivers for thousands of devices! To make all of it a Dim
> >Sum of optional parts would make most users puke. And since I have never
> >heard of this petty complaint being aired by enough Windows users to give
a
> >tinkers damn, I'll file it under "Frustrated GEOS Users". <g>



> >> << Your logic is like the old housewife cliche when asked by her
husband
> >why
> >> she spent $500 on items she doesn't need or use...she replies "Well, it
> >was on
> >> sale.". >>

> >> :-)  Very good!

> >> Ray

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by Bob » Fri, 04 Jul 2003 09:03:19


LOL! Oh man such inane ramblings! Larry Ellison couldn't give a nanosecond
thought to GEOS. Geez!



> > Look, this was virtually a one man crusade against Microsoft, Larry
Ellison,
> > IMHO.

> he would have been wise to buy up geos, buy up all the propreitary code
> components in geos, then gnu licensed it all for free distribuiton on
> napster, kazaa, etc.

> he probably spent more $$$ on his mansion, and more $$ on lawyers adn
> governemtn bureaucrats, when it would ahve been much easier and cheaper
> to sow and tend to a quality, easy ot use alternative seed in the OS
garden.

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by Bob » Fri, 04 Jul 2003 09:04:29


Boo-hoo-hoo. MS plays sooo tough the rest of us just can't compete. PLEASE!


> it is one thing ot compete fairly in a free and open market.. it is
> another thing ot  kneecap your competiors , threaten the market owner to
> not rent selling  space to competitors, etc, etc, etc.


> > The manufacturers, however, should be free to come up with whatever
> > marketing strategy they want - that's called "free enterprise business
> > practice".

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by Bob » Fri, 04 Jul 2003 09:07:31


Only problem is there is no place to drive a GlobalPC running GEOS. I know I
beta tested it up to its' final release. It has tons of bugs and it KR'd all
over the place.



> > Hey, chop away - I know that some of what I say is irrelevant.

> > I really beleive that most average home users (i.e., letters, email,
> > photos, checkbook balancing, etc.) can pretty much buy a decent PC, plug
> > it in and drrrrrrrrrive.

> you are not kidding.. this was exactly my experience with the global
> pc..  i was really impressed..    did not see one dos prompt or
> config.sys. just powered it on and   "drrrriveeeee"   I did!

> > As long as they stick with relatively
> > mainstream apps and brand name components,

> brand name components??  ha!  dells are fille d with so many no name
> chinese supplied parts.. you are not getting sony CDRW drives in dells
> last time i checked.

> > there's very little reason
> > that they can't have months or years with no problems.

> > Yes, after some period, they'll need support. Lightning fries a modem.
> > Hard drive gets really fragmented.

> dust clogs one of the many fans desperately needed to cool a windows
> powered pc..

>   > They fall for the latest AOHell
> > upgrade. But let me go back to the car analogy: you need to bring it in
> > for periodic maintenance, change the transmission fluid or some belts,
> > etc., but if you are careful with it, then rarely do things break down a
> > lot.

> > I just bought a refurbed Dell Inspiron, and it came with XP Home and a
> > few other things already installed. It ran just fine.

> just like the GPC i recently purchased...

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by Bob » Fri, 04 Jul 2003 09:09:14


LOL! Yeah boy. You should have seen the amazing spreadsheet he did and then
solitaire! Whew! What a multitasking PC. LOADED with TON's of apps! Even,
now hold on to your hat, Tetris!!! WHOW!





> || I just bought a refurbed Dell Inspiron, and it came with XP Home and
> || a few other things already installed. It ran just fine.
> |
> |
> | just like the GPC i recently purchased...

> Cool! I just downloaded some Ted Nugent mp3's with KaZaa (and listened
> to them after download) while I was reading my favorite NG's and
> replying offline. My AOL IM window let me know that a few friends were
> online and we traded some jokes. Then I used Corel 8 to modify a graphic
> for a newsletter that I'm doing in Word while I burned a CD-RW with
> mp3's. Finally, I synched my Visor Prism to back up my dates.

> I'll bet I was just as happy to use my machine as you were to use yours.

> --
> Tom

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by Bob » Fri, 04 Jul 2003 09:10:23


Hans, what is so complicated about command line? You act as if it takes a
Rhoads scholar to do it. I find it quite easy and fast.

"Hans Lindgren" <Hans.Lindg...@abc.se> wrote in message

news:NewsReader.1.0.200372320303421664@news1.telia.com...
> Yes, when running DOS tools, like Scandisk, Chkdsk, Defrag, Diskopt and
> Debug. OTOH, there is no parallel DOS command structure for GEOS like
there
> are in Windows NT. I can't execute GEOS commands, except the loader for
GEOS,
> at the DOS prompt and there is no DOS window in GEOS, but this you
probably
> know? Sorry to say this, but to me you seem to be an amateur...........

> BR,
> Hans

> Pat wrote:
> > When you are running GEOS under DOS (No Windows Present) do you exit
GEOS
> > and use command line?

> > "Hans Lindgren" <Hans.Lindg...@abc.se> wrote in message
> > news:NewsReader.1.0.200371222485125264@news1.telia.com...
> > > Yep I would definitly use the command prompt, and I can still say that
> > every
> > > task done on the command promt is executed faster, often more powerful
> and
> > > efficient. One good example is  when managing Windows NT4, 2000
servers,
> > > and Legato Networker servers. Even in such a simple task as to stop
> and
> > start
> > > a service in NT, I use a command prompt prior to GUI. It is faster and
> > simpler,
> > > especially when executing commands to follow.
> > > I use DOS too, still relatively often, when creating boot disks for,
> like
> > > for example, Partition Magic. Repartitioning har drives is done a lot
> > faster
> > > with DOS diskette set booting from DOS, than NT. I would say it is a
> > nightmare
> > > in NT compared to DOS. In NT this is a very slow process and prone to
> > crash.
> > > In DOS it is fast and elegant, with just one quick reboot. Norton
Ghost
> > and
> > > Imagecast cloning is also done fast and elegant in DOS. Scandisk in
> > Windows
> > > 98 SE runned from the DOS prompt, or failsafe mode is preferred,
compared
> > > to normal mode. So there are small bits and pieces here and there.

> > > BR,
> > > Hans

> > > Pat wrote:
> > > > Humans are quite adaptive. They learn what is needed to achieve an
> end
> > > goal.
> > > > Its rare for an average consumer to ever need command line
knowledge.
> > > Even
> > > > if they learned it, the use would be some infrequent that its not
> worth
> > > the
> > > > time involved to have anything but a cursory knowledge. All the
> > relatives
> > > in
> > > > my immediate family use all kinds of PCs but have zero knowledge of
> > command
> > > > line. I'm an old timer so I have lots of knowledge but I'll confess,
> I
> > > am a
> > > > bit rusty on DOS commands but rarely need to use it. Hans, would you
> go
> > > out
> > > > of your way to do something via command line if you could do it
using
> > > a GUI
> > > > interface? Of course, I am referring to scenarios where your not
using
> > > a
> > > > specific 16-bit DOS application, like GEOS or the like.

> > > > "Hans Lindgren" <Hans.Lindg...@abc.se> wrote in message
> > > > news:NewsReader.1.0.200362901227521152@news1.telia.com...
> > > > > Well, smart is a big word, I would say with little or no respect
> of
> > > > computers.
> > > > > Some kids are smart but many will also end up messing up. I still
> > believe,
> > > > > by every day's practice, that knowing the command line and it's
> > commands
> > > > > is still quite useful. And I feel pity for those who refuse to
learn
> > > it as
> > > > > it is often the emergency exit solving a problem.

> > > > > BR,
> > > > > Hans

> > > > > Pat wrote:
> > > > > > Kids are very smart and savvy about computers. For example, a
> smart
> > > four
> > > > > > year old is annoyed if you try to help them with using the
computer.
> > > > Don't
> > > > > > get your fingers near a smart kid who is hell bent on loading
> a
> > game,
> > > > > I warn
> > > > > > you now. ;-)

> > > > > > All kidding aside, its true, DOS is an ancient command line that
> > mostly
> > > > > > older users have knowledge about!

> > > > > > "Hans Lindgren" <Hans.Lindg...@abc.se> wrote in message
> > > > > > news:NewsReader.1.0.2003627523394922608@news1.telia.com...
> > > > > > > Well, that is correct. I often meet Windows engineers who
don't
> > > know
> > > > > how
> > > > > > > the DOS prompt works. They just can click on cute little
icons.
> > > When
> > > > > they
> > > > > > > are forced to use the command line they shiver. OTOH, I have
> my
> > > bread
> > > > > > secured
> > > > > > > for the rest of my life. But *that* makes me
stressed......will
> > > I ever
> > > > > get
> > > > > > > retired? <BG>

> > > > > > > BR,
> > > > > > > Hans

> > > > > > > Pat wrote:
> > > > > > > > Older PC users who were exposed to DOS remember all the
> > > > eccentricities.
> > > > > > > Kids
> > > > > > > > are clueless about DOS. Even their games are all Windows
> > oriented.
> > > > > I
> > > > > > rarely
> > > > > > > > see a DOS book in a computer section of Barnes and Noble,
> for
> > > > example.
> > > > > > > The
> > > > > > > > average DOS user was more amenable to learning about memory
> > > > managers,
> > > > > > > but
> > > > > > > > the average Windows user is going to eschew DOS as being too
> > arcane.

> > > > > > > > "C BLANK II" <cblan...@aol.com> wrote in message
> > > > > > > > news:20030626022306.09634.00001103@mb-m21.aol.com...
> > > > > > > > > ***Minor Setup. <Smirk> GEOS often requires tweaking of
> DOS
> > > memory
> > > > > > > > manager,
> > > > > > > > > plus other AUTOEXEC and CONFIGSYS parameters, not to
mention
> > > GEOS
> > > > > > tweaks
> > > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > various and sundry reasons. Look back at the number of
> > messages
> > > > > in
> > > > > > COGM,
> > > > > > > > and***

> > > > > > > > > Pat, there are a handful of settings to setup GEOS in DOS.
> > They
> > > > > are
> > > > > > > easy
> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > learn and with a little help from such groups as this, the
> few
> > > who
> > > > > > need
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > help (I was one back then) learn easily. Once set up there
> is
> > > > little
> > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > ever
> > > > > > > > > needs to be done again. The biggest flurry of help desired
> > posts
> > > > > in
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > old AOL
> > > > > > > > > forum and here had mainly to do with dealing with MSDOS
> 5 on
> > > up
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > fast
> > > > > > > > > systems beyond 486s. That was fixed in newer GEOS versions
> > than
> > > > > > Ensemble
> > > > > > > > 2.01.
> > > > > > > > > Haven't seen many posts since then about DOS setup issues
> with
> > > > GEOS.

> > > > > > > > > Chip Blank
> > > > > > > > > GUI
> > > > > > > > > GeoGrafix

> > > > > > > > > The GEOS Users International website is at:
> > > > > > > > > http://hometown.aol.com/GUIUSA/GUI_USA.html

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by Bob » Fri, 04 Jul 2003 09:13:40



Quote:> I like Roxio (formerly Adaptec). But should I point out that at least
> one *has* an option to burn CD's in Windows, unlike in a certain
> un-named DOS suite?

> Tom

I'll answer as Chip-a-roo-dee-doo would. "I never ever need to burn a CD."
"So, why would I pay "extra" for such a useless feature!" :) Stupid as it
sounds it is the same answer to tables in GeoWrite, or NewWrite or Writer or
whatever the hell it's called. A rose by any other name is still a
bare-bones, not in production 1992 word processor.
 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by Bob » Fri, 04 Jul 2003 09:14:41



Quote:

> Pipe Dream...   maybe ina tech's house, but not your average persons
> house..  most people find it easier to watch their DVDs on a cheap $50
> hardware dvd player attached ot the  huge tv set.  I NEVER watch DVD's
> on my PC, however, i do watch recorded simpsosns episodes on my tivo
> -like TVtuner/hard drive recorder..  only becasue  i am too cheap to buy
> a real TIVO becasue they are not low cost products like the DVD player.

Simply WRONG!
 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by Ray Kopczyns » Fri, 04 Jul 2003 10:12:03


<< Most of the states, except for a handful of politically aroused AGs were
unable to see the gravity of this case. >>

I have no problem with any AG declining to take the case based on its merits.
What I *DO* mind are those AG's/departments who knuckled under after taking on
the case due to pressures brought to bear by their legislators and/or IT folks
crying about the *potential* of massive cost issues the could *potentially*
arise if folks were allowed to acquire open-source software.  That is exactly
the type of arguments here in Oregon that killed the opportunity for
departments to pursue open source software.

<< But buying or downloading Linux is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. Just do it and stop
yakking about Windows. Do it and then I'll have respect in you! >>

?? I/we had it running on computers in my Computer Renaissance store -- along
side of 3.1, 95, 98, ME, NT, etc... All goes back to finding/using the tools
that do the job for you -- nothing more.

<< Keep mouthing off in a rant about being a victim... >>

There you go again... Don't put words in my mouth! I use whatever software I
deem necessary to get the job done as I wish to do and/or are *required* to do
by higher ups. That includes DOS, Geos, and Windows in several flavors... (I
saw zero advantage or improvement via Linux for what I do.)  I'm nobody's
"victim"...

<< Sound like a good reason to march on Microsoft headquarters with signs. <g>

Nah -- but we should eliminate folks who waste my profit $$$ by using it
(Powerpoint) simply to make a presentation "pretty."  I will freely admint that
someone who is very *profficient* with Powerpoint can do it rapidly and
effectively -- the average user simply wastes company time...

<< I think its just pure jealosy (sic). >>

P.O.V. for sure, but I'm just shaking my head on that one.  It's jealousy to
use what works for me and appeals to me?  I'm really struggling how that
equates to jealousy...  

Ray

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by C BLANK » Fri, 04 Jul 2003 13:33:08


***Do you realize that to me, this is the same impression that I get from
Chip, you, and a few others? IOW, that there's no "need" for people to
do anything other than what can be done with GEOS? Just an impression.
***

Tom, it is a matter of filling need. GEOS does that for a great many users
since it's base apps do what most PC users do when not * or on the
internet. Getting more of those people to use the GEOS brand within what it can
do is the challange and always has been.

People should always use whatever resources they have access to to do what they
want with their computer. GEOS is just part of that. In fact, I don't know any
GEOS users who use just GEOS in their computer life.

Chip Blank
GUI
GeoGrafix

The GEOS Users International website is at:
http://www.veryComputer.com/

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by C BLANK » Fri, 04 Jul 2003 13:40:55


***I'll bet I was just as happy to use my machine as you were to use yours.

--
Tom***

And THAT is the crux of this all. There are reasons why people like and want to
use GEOS...it fills their needs satisfactorilly, even if Bob and Pat think
otherwise.

Chip Blank
GUI
GeoGrafix

The GEOS Users International website is at:
http://hometown.aol.com/GUIUSA/GUI_USA.html

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by hyubs » Fri, 04 Jul 2003 14:26:05


i drive it to yahoo, the new york times and the la times.. no problems
at all...  it really is an amazing product for my uses..

so you used all betas but not he final release adn update?? mine ahs the
update..  so far it is acceptably reliable  but yes i havwe found at
least one bug.. the newsgroup reader did not post some messages. but
hey, had hte company survived, i amsure that issue would have been
resolved..

the GPC is every bit as good as windows or the mac.. it is a fabulous
integration of hardware adn software...  i am impressed very time i turn
it on..


> Only problem is there is no place to drive a GlobalPC running GEOS. I know I
> beta tested it up to its' final release. It has tons of bugs and it KR'd all
> over the place.




>>>Hey, chop away - I know that some of what I say is irrelevant.

>>>I really beleive that most average home users (i.e., letters, email,
>>>photos, checkbook balancing, etc.) can pretty much buy a decent PC, plug
>>>it in and drrrrrrrrrive.

>>you are not kidding.. this was exactly my experience with the global
>>pc..  i was really impressed..    did not see one dos prompt or
>>config.sys. just powered it on and   "drrrriveeeee"   I did!

>>>As long as they stick with relatively
>>>mainstream apps and brand name components,

>>brand name components??  ha!  dells are fille d with so many no name
>>chinese supplied parts.. you are not getting sony CDRW drives in dells
>>last time i checked.

>>>there's very little reason
>>>that they can't have months or years with no problems.

>>>Yes, after some period, they'll need support. Lightning fries a modem.
>>>Hard drive gets really fragmented.

>>dust clogs one of the many fans desperately needed to cool a windows
>>powered pc..

>>  > They fall for the latest AOHell

>>>upgrade. But let me go back to the car analogy: you need to bring it in
>>>for periodic maintenance, change the transmission fluid or some belts,
>>>etc., but if you are careful with it, then rarely do things break down a
>>>lot.

>>>I just bought a refurbed Dell Inspiron, and it came with XP Home and a
>>>few other things already installed. It ran just fine.

>>just like the GPC i recently purchased...