Living in the past

Living in the past

Post by Bob » Wed, 11 Jun 2003 04:36:24



Simple. GEOS has no use at all in today's IT field. Judging by your comment
perhaps you don't have a clue about IT in 2003? It sure the hell ain't a
real-mode 16-bit DOS-Based GUI lacking any real network support except for
at best, <<shudder>> ODI driver support.



> spake unto us, saying:

> >I make a living in the IT field. GEOS servers NO purpose. NONE.

> Not true.  Some of us actually still find GeoDraw to be a useful app,
> and I also use GeoManager as a filemanager under DOS on the occasions
> that I boot into a pure DOS environment.

> I'm not sure what relevance your IT employment has; I've known dozens
> of IT folks with 20-30 years in the field who didn't know much at all
> about PC's or PC software.  :-)

> --
>  -Rich Steiner >>>---> http://www.visi.com/~rsteiner >>>---> Eden Prairie,
MN
>     OS/2 + BeOS + Linux + Win95 + DOS + PC/GEOS = PC Hobbyist Heaven! :-)
>       Now running in text mode on a PPro/200.  Eat my dust, GUI freaks!
>                  The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then.

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by Bob » Wed, 11 Jun 2003 04:39:04


I don't push Windows. If another OS that was better came along, I'd use it
in a heartbeat. Till then I use the best of what is current, and that is
w/out doubt, Windows.


> you benefit from "workfare" in the IT field..

>   windows serves as your personal "full employment program"  and that is
> why you push it.


> > I make a living in the IT field. GEOS servers NO purpose. NONE.


 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by C BLANK » Wed, 11 Jun 2003 06:04:24


***I make a living in the IT field. GEOS servers NO purpose. NONE.
***

Bob, that is like saying 'I work for NASA. Slow single prop aircraft serve no
purpose.'
I can think of many uses for such obsolete craft.

GEOS serves huge purpose in the area of basic productivity...word processing,
worksheets, databases, form creation and filling, PIMs and more. Millioins of
people use these types of applications at very basic levels daily. Levels that
GEOS has capabilities well beyond, in most cases, for the user.

Chip Blank
GUI
GeoGrafix

The GEOS Users International website is at:
http://hometown.aol.com/GUIUSA/GUI_USA.html

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by Bob » Wed, 11 Jun 2003 06:27:18




Quote:> ***I make a living in the IT field. GEOS servers NO purpose. NONE.
> ***

> Bob, that is like saying 'I work for NASA. Slow single prop aircraft serve
no
> purpose.'
> I can think of many uses for such obsolete craft.
> Chip Blank

Not at all. For a, (for lack of a better word), desktop OS to be a
competitor in today's market it must meet certain standards. GEOS meets NONE
of today's standards.
 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by Pat » Wed, 11 Jun 2003 08:46:39


To stir trouble, for that end goal, is an abuse of newsgroup rules, IMHO. To
disagree vehemently with another person's opinion is not an abuse. Maybe you
think its normal to goose step to the same old tune around here, but I think
its more normal to say, "Where is this GEOS headed and why has nothing
happened in years, and why should everyone who once loved this product
suddenly believe that things are any different". You heard Tom, he said its
been one year since he browsed this ng and nothing has changed. IOW, the
same majority of GEO Extremists and the same minority number of people
expressing an opposing view. This will be true in 2004, et al. I would say
that at this attrition rate, the remaining two dozen Geo Extremists should
be down to a dozen.



> >Pal, welcome to the club of
> >what a newsgroup is all about.

> Beg to differ: Newsgroups were invented to be a useful communication
> tool, but are often misused as a means to stir trouble among normally
> good-natured people.

> At least you now admitted to be a troll.

> Keep on spluttering about, if you wish, but at least you could try to
> be funny and entertaining...

> Holger

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by Tom Accuost » Wed, 11 Jun 2003 13:02:21



| To stir trouble, for that end goal, is an abuse of newsgroup rules,
| IMHO. To disagree vehemently with another person's opinion is not an
| abuse. Maybe you think its normal to goose step to the same old tune
| around here, but I think its more normal to say, "Where is this GEOS
| headed and why has nothing happened in years, and why should everyone
| who once loved this product suddenly believe that things are any
| different". You heard Tom, he said its been one year since he browsed
| this ng and nothing has changed. IOW, the same majority of GEO
| Extremists and the same minority number of people expressing an
| opposing view. This will be true in 2004, et al. I would say that at
| this attrition rate, the remaining two dozen Geo Extremists should be
| down to a dozen.

I heard my name mentioned...

I googled myself (it's okay, I washed my hands before I typed this), and
it was back in March that I last was doing any serious posting and
replying here. A quick read of posts from March and April shows that
there was some discussion about the latest release. I just want to
repost this from Mar 6. 02:

I just wanted to be the first to announce that I received my NDO2K
package (#486) - shipped via Priority Mail (postage $3.95 - where's the
other 6 bucks?), and the package came with some EZ start instructions, a
manual, some Green PC propaganda, and a set of stickers with the serial
number on them.

Without a trace of irony, the sticker instructions are as follows:

** IMPORTANT **
The serial number klabels below are for your convenience. Affix them in
a safe place for future reference.
We recommend youplace:
- one on your CD sleeve
- one of the back of Disk 1
- one on the inside cover of your manual
After using the serial number for installation, you will need it for
technical support help and purchasing upgrades.

Catch that last line? The part about "purchasing upgrades"? Hee hee.

Anyway, Pat (sadly) makes a good point. There aren't trhe number of
people posting this year that there were last year. Why? Well, as an
illustration, a few weeks ago I had to do some maintenance on an older
pc and I saw a batch file that I had written a few years back. I forgot
how to read the switches. Why? I don't use it anymore. I'm now so
confinrmed an XP user that I haven't dropped out to DOS in months. I
*was* a Geos/ND user. Now I'm not.

Just for the hell of it, I checked. Yes, there is still a CP/M group.
Here's a snippet of thread:

I recently purchased an Osborne laptop.  I found a site that has the
software, and it actually came with some software, but not the CP/M
diskette.  Could someone please help me get my head out of my arse and
figure out how to get this CP/M stuff working?    I was only 6 years old
when we had our computer that ran on CP/M.   After the drive went out of
alignment, my dad trashed it.  We ended up getting a PCjr, but still,
that
is not CP/M related at all.

====

| I recently purchased an Osborne laptop.

By "laptop" do you mean a relatively small computer with a fold-down
lcd, an even smaller computer with the lcd laying flat, or a 30-pound
luggable?

If it's really a laptop, then is it really CP/M? The Kaypro 2000
wasn't. If so, are there any pictures on the web?

===

Okay, I'm just musing here.

I haven't had any luck getting CP/M up and running by sticking a Z80
emulation on top of my already-working emulator, but I'm going to try
again, and I'm thinking of using a customized CP/M rather than the M$
CP/M that was used on the Apple ][.

No, I'm not kidding.

Well, I've thought about the possibilities of how this could be done
on a high level (i.e., I'm not thinking at code level now), and I
thought maybe the best way would be to have an Apple ][ CP/M
compatibility level, and then to offer a soft-switch that would:

 * Move the $Exxx soft-switches to the ports, and fill in the page
with the Language Card's 4K bank.
 * Modify RAM banking, so that ROM is completely disabled, and fill in
the page with the LC's 12K bank (RAM Works and 64/128 paging would
work as usual, allowing the emulator to access up to 3136K of RAM)

It's all about the TPA.

Another switch would restore Microsoft compatibility.

Osborne? Kaypro? Z80? Holy cow! And yes, there are Amiga, and even
Commodore 64 groups. I did read a bit, though, and noticed that none of
them harbor any thoughts that the old OS would rise again to slay the
dreaded MS beast.

Anyway, I have to go now - I'm installing another XP update (to be fair,
there were problems a few updates ago that are supposed to be fixed
now), and then to read soem ebooks on my Palm.
<sniff>
I love the smell of fresh technology in the morning...

Tom

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.12
GSS/O d-(+) s: a+ C++ L> W++ N++ w+(--) O?>+ M PS (++)
PE (+++) Y+(-) PGP X+ t+ 5-(+) X R-
tv---(-) b++(+++) DI++++ D++ e++>+++ h---->+ r++++>* y++++**
   ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

begin 666 smile.gif
M1TE&.#EA#P`/`)$!`````+^_O___`````"'Y! $```$`+ `````/``\```(N

#`0`[
`
end

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by Richard Stein » Wed, 11 Jun 2003 15:59:50



Quote:>Simple. GEOS has no use at all in today's IT field.

AFAIK the PC/GEOS environment was never intended to be a corporate PC
desktop or server solution (the main target market for "IT" rags), and
I'm not sure that anyone nowadays is pushing it as such.

Instead, it still has some potential value as a small-business, home,
or hobbyist platform, though the presence of platforms such as Linux,
the BSD family, and BeOS are making the case for PC/GEOS much harder
to make nowadays.

Quote:>Judging by your comment perhaps you don't have a clue about IT in 2003?

I was simply countering your completely unqualified (and quite frankly
baseless as far as I can see) assertion that GEOS has no value at all.

To me it has value, as it does to some of the other posters here.

Besides, I'm just a simple Unisys mainframer who also happens to grok a
few additional platforms.  I have little need to prove myself.  This is
USENET, after all.  :-)

--
 -Rich Steiner >>>---> http://www.visi.com/~rsteiner >>>---> Eden Prairie, MN
    OS/2 + BeOS + Linux + Win95 + DOS + PC/GEOS = PC Hobbyist Heaven! :-)
      Now running in text mode on a PPro/200.  Eat my dust, GUI freaks!
                 The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then.

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by Holger La » Wed, 11 Jun 2003 20:39:55



>To stir trouble, for that end goal, is an abuse of newsgroup rules, IMHO. To
>disagree vehemently with another person's opinion is not an abuse.

It depends. Of course, all trouble-stirrers are adament that they only
"disagree vehemently". The main point is IMO how this is perceived by
the other members of the group, namely, if this disagreement is seen
as a constructive contribution or not.

For a laugh, have a look at soc.culture.german and watch those posters
"vehemently denying" that the Holocaust ever happaned. You can even
get into some sort of discussion with them, but you'll soon realise
that they are not looking for answers or solutions at all, just having
fun leading you round in circles.

Sorry, Pat, but for me you are of the same category.

Quote:>Maybe you
>think its normal to goose step to the same old tune around here,

Go on, give me a new tune to goose-step to.

Quote:>but I think
>its more normal to say, "Where is this GEOS headed and why has nothing
>happened in years, and why should everyone who once loved this product
>suddenly believe that things are any different".

So, now you put out your rhetorical questions. Who do you expect to
answer and what kind answer are you looking for?

Please outline your case, Sir, we are waiting for your advice.

Holger

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by Bob » Thu, 12 Jun 2003 03:30:14


Well the proof is in the pudding. GEOS has at best a small fraction of a
percent of the desktop market. It has been dropped by every company that has
ever touched it. It is not currently in development. GWRX dropped it. New
Deal gone. MyTurn gone. Brother dropped it. Ogo gone. GlobalPC gone. Sales,
zero. Marketing, zero. Market, zero. Sounds state-of-the-art to me :)



saying:

> >Simple. GEOS has no use at all in today's IT field.

> AFAIK the PC/GEOS environment was never intended to be a corporate PC
> desktop or server solution (the main target market for "IT" rags), and
> I'm not sure that anyone nowadays is pushing it as such.

> Instead, it still has some potential value as a small-business, home,
> or hobbyist platform, though the presence of platforms such as Linux,
> the BSD family, and BeOS are making the case for PC/GEOS much harder
> to make nowadays.

> >Judging by your comment perhaps you don't have a clue about IT in 2003?

> I was simply countering your completely unqualified (and quite frankly
> baseless as far as I can see) assertion that GEOS has no value at all.

> To me it has value, as it does to some of the other posters here.

> Besides, I'm just a simple Unisys mainframer who also happens to grok a
> few additional platforms.  I have little need to prove myself.  This is
> USENET, after all.  :-)

> --
>  -Rich Steiner >>>---> http://www.visi.com/~rsteiner >>>---> Eden Prairie,
MN
>     OS/2 + BeOS + Linux + Win95 + DOS + PC/GEOS = PC Hobbyist Heaven! :-)
>       Now running in text mode on a PPro/200.  Eat my dust, GUI freaks!
>                  The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then.

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by C BLANK » Thu, 12 Jun 2003 03:46:21


***Bob says...GWRX dropped it. ***
GWRX was always weak on marketing. I have seen this before in other areas.
Great product, lousy marketing, results in product and/or company failure.

***New Deal gone. MyTurn gone. GlobalPC gone.***
New Deal was also plagued by inadequate marketing, and their nail in the coffin
was the hookup with a financially troubled (although not known until later)
MyTurn, not to mention the inopportune downturn in the economy. Global PC was
part of that I believe.

***Brother dropped it.***
Brother had a good idea but charged too much. Overpricing is a killer.

*** Ogo gone.***
I never followed the PDA thing much.
***Sales, zero. Marketing, zero. Market, zero. ***
Absolutely incorrect.

Chip Blank
GUI
GeoGrafix

The GEOS Users International website is at:
http://hometown.aol.com/GUIUSA/GUI_USA.html

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by C BLANK » Thu, 12 Jun 2003 03:48:36


***> Bob, that is like saying 'I work for NASA. Slow single prop aircraft serve
no

Quote:> purpose.'
> I can think of many uses for such obsolete craft.
> Chip Blank

Not at all. For a, (for lack of a better word), desktop OS to be a
competitor in today's market it must meet certain standards. GEOS meets NONE
of today's standards.
***

Compete at what level? What standards?
Be careful...one shoe fits all thinking doesn't work for everyone.

Chip Blank
GUI
GeoGrafix

The GEOS Users International website is at:
http://hometown.aol.com/GUIUSA/GUI_USA.html

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by C BLANK » Thu, 12 Jun 2003 03:55:54


***You heard Tom, he said its
been one year since he browsed this ng and nothing has changed.***

Pat, how fast do you want things to move under the circumstances. Breadbox had
to wait for New Deal's financial problems to solidify one way or another enough
to procede with obtaining the GEOS license itself. I don't think this was
exactly on their mind financially while doing work for New Deal and MYTurn.
Once the New Deal license expired/was revoked the way was clear for this next
step in GEOS development. I think Breadbox needs time to get up to a speed for
the developments you and others want to get started and show up...unless you
can send Frank some hard cash of your own.

GEOS is still alive and kicking, and that is plenty for now, all things
considered.

Chip Blank
GUI
GeoGrafix

The GEOS Users International website is at:
http://hometown.aol.com/GUIUSA/GUI_USA.html

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by Bob » Thu, 12 Jun 2003 06:23:22


Why did you even reply?



Quote:> ***Bob says...GWRX dropped it. ***
> GWRX was always weak on marketing. I have seen this before in other areas.
> Great product, lousy marketing, results in product and/or company failure.

> ***New Deal gone. MyTurn gone. GlobalPC gone.***
> New Deal was also plagued by inadequate marketing, and their nail in the
coffin
> was the hookup with a financially troubled (although not known until
later)
> MyTurn, not to mention the inopportune downturn in the economy. Global PC
was
> part of that I believe.

> ***Brother dropped it.***
> Brother had a good idea but charged too much. Overpricing is a killer.

> *** Ogo gone.***
> I never followed the PDA thing much.
> ***Sales, zero. Marketing, zero. Market, zero. ***
> Absolutely incorrect.

> Chip Blank
> GUI
> GeoGrafix

> The GEOS Users International website is at:
> http://hometown.aol.com/GUIUSA/GUI_USA.html

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by Bob » Thu, 12 Jun 2003 06:23:47


Why did you even reply?



Quote:> ***> Bob, that is like saying 'I work for NASA. Slow single prop aircraft
serve
> no
> > purpose.'
> > I can think of many uses for such obsolete craft.
> > Chip Blank

> Not at all. For a, (for lack of a better word), desktop OS to be a
> competitor in today's market it must meet certain standards. GEOS meets
NONE
> of today's standards.
> ***

> Compete at what level? What standards?
> Be careful...one shoe fits all thinking doesn't work for everyone.

> Chip Blank
> GUI
> GeoGrafix

> The GEOS Users International website is at:
> http://hometown.aol.com/GUIUSA/GUI_USA.html

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by Richard Stein » Thu, 12 Jun 2003 06:29:43



spake unto us, saying:

Quote:>Well the proof is in the pudding. GEOS has at best a small fraction of a
>percent of the desktop market.

There is no logical connection between market share and quality.

As a possible counterexample, Ferrari has a very small percentage of
the automobile market, but that (by itself) is not a fair indicator
of the quality or performance of that company's product line.

Quote:>It has been dropped by every company that has ever touched it. It is
>not currently in development. GWRX dropped it. New Deal gone. MyTurn
>gone. Brother dropped it. Ogo gone. GlobalPC gone. Sales, zero.

None of the above bodes well for the future of GEOS, IMhO, but it also
has little to do with the platform's actual utility.

Quote:>Marketing, zero. Market, zero. Sounds state-of-the-art to me :)

There is a large difference between "state of the art" and "useful",
and it is the latter that I see GEOS as being, not the former.

--
 -Rich Steiner >>>---> http://www.visi.com/~rsteiner >>>---> Eden Prairie, MN
    OS/2 + BeOS + Linux + Win95 + DOS + PC/GEOS = PC Hobbyist Heaven! :-)
      Now running in text mode on a PPro/200.  Eat my dust, GUI freaks!
                 The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then.