Living in the past

Living in the past

Post by hyubs » Thu, 26 Jun 2003 16:32:50



today i downloaded the latest breadbox geos demo adn it runs fine under
win98se on my athlon 2000+ with 756mb ram and a 160GB hard drive.

and i never had to apply a patch...

silly bob


> Now now. It is well know GEOS suffers from the fast CPU bug, somewhere in
> the 800 MHz and up range. It won't even run on 2.5 GHz. Silly man!

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by Holger La » Thu, 26 Jun 2003 19:21:56





>> Ah, and now you think you have to say NO to all those * GEOS children?

>Ahhh, I see now. Perhaps I have hit home with my analogy.

Not at all: Grown-up people do not like to be treated as children, not
by you anyway. Who do you think you are???

Quote:>Again, you are making false assumptions. The word God is used by many people
>to refer to someone who is not a deity but an expert or guru.

who -  if only in an ironic sense - should be worshipped (or so the
speaker thinks). The religious meaning is there and what you are doing
is - well - just short of worshipping the man.

Quote:>You think I am a GEOS hater when in fact I am just the opposite. I love GEOS
>for what it was when Geoworks ran the product, not the *ed up mess it
>has become. Kapish?

The original version is the past and the "*ed up mess" is pretty
much the past as well. It should make no difference to you what people
use or not use. If you don't like the "mess", you can wallpaper your
home with screen shots of 1.0, if you wish. I don't care.

I remember we've been here before...

Holger

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by Pat » Fri, 27 Jun 2003 00:16:48


My originally post claimed the GPC was "in the family" of an applicance PC.
With a 486, you can make it a Pentium via an Overdrive upgrade, for example.
You can boost the memory, add adapters, improve or upgrade the BIOS, and do
other mods to the motherboard from off the shelf parts at competitive
pricing. Appliance PCs are not made for that purpose. 99.9% of the owners of
appliance PCs are never going to tinker under the hood. Yet many owners of
486s, over the years, have had the covers off and made multiple upgrades.


> the global pc is no more an "appliance pc" than a clone 486/100 running
> windows with 8mb ram and a 4gb hard drive and a 56k modem.

> if i erased the hard drive on the GPC and installed ms-dos6.2 adn
> windows 3.1, or even installed  win95 or win98se, would you still call
> it an appliance??

> an appliance is a webtv..  a very limited in usefullness device which
> totally useless if you do not have the overpriced webtv service..  a
> computer running windows or geos is more versatile.. like being able to
> write letters, do spreadsheets,  create nice graphics based documents,
> use the internet, etc etc,etc,..     a sigle funciton device is an
> appliance.. a multifunciton device is a computer..

> and by the way, thanks to GWREPRAY emailing me a small patch
> (update0.pak  -- which was incredibly easy to install.. a no brainer.. i
> am so impressed with this GPC.. it is the real "idiots computer" for
> people who do not want to buy idiot books), i was online with prodigy on
> my global pc "appliance" doing things this evening like reading the new
> york times online, checking rebates on computer part purchases and
> checking my yahoo email..

> and not one lockup either...

> more later..


> > Hyubso,

> > The GPC its designed to be in the family of an applicance PC. A closed
end
> > system that has limited scaleability. Great if it does exactly what you
> > want, but a potential * if it does not. If you are on an applicance
PC,
> > like the GPC or the Brother notebook, for example, then you are more
> > insulated from the necessity of learning about memory managers and the
like.
> > You're also closed out of doing all the things that a non-applicance PC
is
> > capable of providing its owner.

> > For non-applicance PCs, if I had not read through scores of GEOS and DOS
> > related "Tweaking Issues" over the years, then I would be inclined to
think
> > it wasn't a problem.




> >>>GEOS Simplicity: GEOS users invariably have to learn how to use DOS

> > memory

> >>>manger(s) or other facets central to being on an OS that relies heavily

> > on

> >>>DOS.

> >>i did not have to learn any dos comnads on the new  global pc i just got
> >>off of ebay.. in fact, it boots faster, is less noisy (actually totally
> >>silnet)it was easier to learn than windows 95.    alos, win95 relies
> >>more on dos than does geos.   try running win95 or 98 without himem.sys
> >>being loaded.

> >>>GEOS Quality: GEOS, Windows, Linux, and Macs all have great quality

> > output,

> >>>but GEOS is limited in the quality of the driver they have.

> >>a geos printout on an HP LaserJet 4L looks fabulous..  no reasonable
> >>person would say it is bad or limited or out of date or whatever other
> >>dumb term you come up wiht to describe what in reality is fabulous
output.

> >>>When in fact, GEOS
> >>>lost the GENERAL FEATURES war when Windows 95 came out, and has been

> > trying

> >>>to catch up ever since.

> >>baloney.. geos wins hands down in general features such as speed and
> >>ease of installation, compatability among native apps. ( ever try
> >>getting the spell checker ot work on outlook express 6 and winxp -- ha
> >>ha -- spend a ton of money on new improved junk and you still have to
> >>hire a tech to fix microsoft mistakes / errors and ommissions!), return
> >>on investment in computer hardware,   also, a barebones win95 or win98
> >>installation leaves you wiht limited apps, unlike geos, where one gets
> >>full featuredd apps with the software package.    with winodws you are
> >>out big $$$ unless you bootleg your software or find it at goodwill or
> >>buy it used off of ebay.

> >>>For example, in the last 3 years, I doubt NDO or BBX
> >>>office apps have had many improvements.

> >>the office apps are so good it is not wise to spend limited  time adn
> >>money adding small features when  that $$ and time could be better spent
> >>improving the internet apps.

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by Pat » Fri, 27 Jun 2003 01:30:36




> Not at all: Grown-up people do not like to be treated as children...

Yesteday, a young beautiful  Russian software engineer, who is not a US
citizen, purposefully hit a police officer who had warned her to not move
forward in a traffic jam, where she was fuming over being detained, like all
the other drivers around her. Yet, this hot tempered Russian immigrant got
out of her car and started blasting the officer shouting * This and
* That. She got in her car and the officer stood in front of it and
warned to NOT ATTEMPT TO GO FORWARD. What did she do? Yup, she hit the
officer and he went up over her front hood and she would have dragged him if
a truck driver had not moved his rig in her path. Somehow, I wonder if a
parent had taken the time to say NO to and * Anna. Personally, I wonder
what would happen to Anna in Russia, if she pulled the same antic?

http://www.veryComputer.com/

http://www.veryComputer.com/

Quote:> The original version is the past and the "*ed up mess" is pretty
> much the past as well. It should make no difference to you what people
> use or not use. If you don't like the "mess", you can wallpaper your
> home with screen shots of 1.0, if you wish. I don't care.

This is easy for you to say, being a back seat driver. In fact, virtually
zero has been done to the original Ensemble Suite for approximately 9 years.
As for ancillary development around GEOS Ensemble, if you think that Skipper
is a sweet smelling rose, then I would recommend that you have your sinus
passages cleared.
 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by Holger La » Fri, 27 Jun 2003 01:41:11



>Somehow, I wonder if a
>parent had taken the time to say NO to and * Anna.

Saying NO is not the only and not always the best solution, no matter
how many examples you drag in front of me to prove the contrary.

Quote:>> The original version is the past and the "*ed up mess" is pretty
>> much the past as well. It should make no difference to you what people
>> use or not use. If you don't like the "mess", you can wallpaper your
>> home with screen shots of 1.0, if you wish. I don't care.

>This is easy for you to say, being a back seat driver. In fact, virtually
>zero has been done to the original Ensemble Suite for approximately 9 years.

As I said: You may keep reminding yourself of how pure and beautiful
1.0 was and just discard the rest. That's entirely your business,
exactly the same  as it is my business how and where I run NDO2000.
Let's not lecture each other, right?

Holger

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by hyubs » Fri, 27 Jun 2003 01:58:58


so i guess you are saying that an old first generation 486sx16 laptop
computer,  upgradeable to 8mb max ram (if you can find the ram), with a
max 300mb hard drive,  and one pcmcia slot for a 14.4 modem, is a real
computer , while a gpc with better specs is an appliance??

most laptop computer owners do not tinker under the hood, and most would
say their laptops are not appliances, but computers..

this is why the GPC died..  intelligent people in the industry
intentionally trashing a perfectly good product, and  GPC marketers
unable ot overcome  that trashing...


> My originally post claimed the GPC was "in the family" of an applicance PC.
> With a 486, you can make it a Pentium via an Overdrive upgrade, for example.
> You can boost the memory, add adapters, improve or upgrade the BIOS, and do
> other mods to the motherboard from off the shelf parts at competitive
> pricing. Appliance PCs are not made for that purpose. 99.9% of the owners of
> appliance PCs are never going to tinker under the hood. Yet many owners of
> 486s, over the years, have had the covers off and made multiple upgrades.



>>the global pc is no more an "appliance pc" than a clone 486/100 running
>>windows with 8mb ram and a 4gb hard drive and a 56k modem.

>>if i erased the hard drive on the GPC and installed ms-dos6.2 adn
>>windows 3.1, or even installed  win95 or win98se, would you still call
>>it an appliance??

>>an appliance is a webtv..  a very limited in usefullness device which
>>totally useless if you do not have the overpriced webtv service..  a
>>computer running windows or geos is more versatile.. like being able to
>>write letters, do spreadsheets,  create nice graphics based documents,
>>use the internet, etc etc,etc,..     a sigle funciton device is an
>>appliance.. a multifunciton device is a computer..

>>and by the way, thanks to GWREPRAY emailing me a small patch
>>(update0.pak  -- which was incredibly easy to install.. a no brainer.. i
>>am so impressed with this GPC.. it is the real "idiots computer" for
>>people who do not want to buy idiot books), i was online with prodigy on
>>my global pc "appliance" doing things this evening like reading the new
>>york times online, checking rebates on computer part purchases and
>>checking my yahoo email..

>>and not one lockup either...

>>more later..


>>>Hyubso,

>>>The GPC its designed to be in the family of an applicance PC. A closed

> end

>>>system that has limited scaleability. Great if it does exactly what you
>>>want, but a potential * if it does not. If you are on an applicance

> PC,

>>>like the GPC or the Brother notebook, for example, then you are more
>>>insulated from the necessity of learning about memory managers and the

> like.

>>>You're also closed out of doing all the things that a non-applicance PC

> is

>>>capable of providing its owner.

>>>For non-applicance PCs, if I had not read through scores of GEOS and DOS
>>>related "Tweaking Issues" over the years, then I would be inclined to

> think

>>>it wasn't a problem.




>>>>>GEOS Simplicity: GEOS users invariably have to learn how to use DOS

>>>memory

>>>>>manger(s) or other facets central to being on an OS that relies heavily

>>>on

>>>>>DOS.

>>>>i did not have to learn any dos comnads on the new  global pc i just got
>>>>off of ebay.. in fact, it boots faster, is less noisy (actually totally
>>>>silnet)it was easier to learn than windows 95.    alos, win95 relies
>>>>more on dos than does geos.   try running win95 or 98 without himem.sys
>>>>being loaded.

>>>>>GEOS Quality: GEOS, Windows, Linux, and Macs all have great quality

>>>output,

>>>>>but GEOS is limited in the quality of the driver they have.

>>>>a geos printout on an HP LaserJet 4L looks fabulous..  no reasonable
>>>>person would say it is bad or limited or out of date or whatever other
>>>>dumb term you come up wiht to describe what in reality is fabulous

> output.

>>>>>When in fact, GEOS
>>>>>lost the GENERAL FEATURES war when Windows 95 came out, and has been

>>>trying

>>>>>to catch up ever since.

>>>>baloney.. geos wins hands down in general features such as speed and
>>>>ease of installation, compatability among native apps. ( ever try
>>>>getting the spell checker ot work on outlook express 6 and winxp -- ha
>>>>ha -- spend a ton of money on new improved junk and you still have to
>>>>hire a tech to fix microsoft mistakes / errors and ommissions!), return
>>>>on investment in computer hardware,   also, a barebones win95 or win98
>>>>installation leaves you wiht limited apps, unlike geos, where one gets
>>>>full featuredd apps with the software package.    with winodws you are
>>>>out big $$$ unless you bootleg your software or find it at goodwill or
>>>>buy it used off of ebay.

>>>>>For example, in the last 3 years, I doubt NDO or BBX
>>>>>office apps have had many improvements.

>>>>the office apps are so good it is not wise to spend limited  time adn
>>>>money adding small features when  that $$ and time could be better spent
>>>>improving the internet apps.

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by Bob » Fri, 27 Jun 2003 03:09:35


Who cares? The GPC was any and all measures a TOTAL failure.


Quote:> << The GPC its designed to be in the family of an applicance (sic) PC. >>

> I agree.

> << A closed end system that has limited scaleability. >>

> I agree.

> << Great if it does exactly what you want, but a potential * if it
does
> not. >>

> LOL!  Apt analogy. I agree and am glad you do too.

> Ray

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by Bob » Fri, 27 Jun 2003 03:10:25


What on Earth are you even talking about?


> today i downloaded the latest breadbox geos demo adn it runs fine under
> win98se on my athlon 2000+ with 756mb ram and a 160GB hard drive.

> and i never had to apply a patch...

> silly bob


> > Now now. It is well know GEOS suffers from the fast CPU bug, somewhere
in
> > the 800 MHz and up range. It won't even run on 2.5 GHz. Silly man!

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by hyubs » Fri, 27 Jun 2003 03:38:31


i was responding to your message that geos has a fast cpu bug and won't
run on a faster than 800 mhz clone..

can't you read???


> What on Earth are you even talking about?



>>today i downloaded the latest breadbox geos demo adn it runs fine under
>>win98se on my athlon 2000+ with 756mb ram and a 160GB hard drive.

>>and i never had to apply a patch...

>>silly bob


>>>Now now. It is well know GEOS suffers from the fast CPU bug, somewhere

> in

>>>the 800 MHz and up range. It won't even run on 2.5 GHz. Silly man!

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by Bob » Fri, 27 Jun 2003 04:42:32


Nope. The "fast CPU bug" is well documented and well know. 800 KHz is simply
a starting point for it.


> i was responding to your message that geos has a fast cpu bug and won't
> run on a faster than 800 mhz clone..

> can't you read???


> > What on Earth are you even talking about?



> >>today i downloaded the latest breadbox geos demo adn it runs fine under
> >>win98se on my athlon 2000+ with 756mb ram and a 160GB hard drive.

> >>and i never had to apply a patch...

> >>silly bob


> >>>Now now. It is well know GEOS suffers from the fast CPU bug, somewhere

> > in

> >>>the 800 MHz and up range. It won't even run on 2.5 GHz. Silly man!

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by Hans Lindgre » Fri, 27 Jun 2003 07:09:20


Well, yes the "Global PC" is an appliance and a computer. The name "Global
PC" is misguiding, I think. The PC is a concept founded by IBM, and the whole
idea of the concept is that the user installs whatever hardware or software
that he or she wants to use into this computer, but in the GPC the hardware
is predefined and the software is predefined to some extent, and can not
be changed, therefore it can't be a PC. This doesn't make the PC a better
computer per definition compared to a GPC, only more flexible. There is also
another error made in many of the debates, both in this forum and others.
The Global PC is not a 486 computer appliance. It uses an AMD Elan chip,
which utilizes a 486 AMD CPU, but also includes other optimized features
on the same chip optimized with the CPU, which gives it power and performance
beyond 486 CPU:s. The Elan chip is an optimized chip made for an optimized
software, by calling it a 486 it is as erroneus as calling a 486 a 386 or
a  Pentium a 486. It is hard to compare a Elan chip to a 486 as it will most
probably perform more like a Pentium. The Elan chip is not a Pentium nor
a 486, it is a different creature.........an Elan chip.......simple as that........
I have worked with the Elan chips and I am very impressed. It is a very good
and reliable chip in computers designed for special tasks.

You are correct that a laptop or notebooks or whatever they are called,
is not a PC. Even branded computers, which are called PCs are not PCs. They
are called PCs,  because they belong to the same architecture, the intel
x86, but then the GPC is also a PC, so the analogy is lacking here. No doubt
about that!

The primary cause why the GPC failed I think is the broken IT-bubble. There
are many subcauses too, but the primary cause that they could not obtain
more money from riskcapitalists, just as NewDeal. The GPC is not alone. Many
IT companies with great ideas have gone the same way. The third generations
mobile net is delayed, facing the same problem,  shortness or lack of money.

BR,
Hans


> so i guess you are saying that an old first generation 486sx16 laptop
> computer,  upgradeable to 8mb max ram (if you can find the ram), with
a
> max 300mb hard drive,  and one pcmcia slot for a 14.4 modem, is a real
> computer , while a gpc with better specs is an appliance??

> most laptop computer owners do not tinker under the hood, and most would
> say their laptops are not appliances, but computers..

> this is why the GPC died..  intelligent people in the industry
> intentionally trashing a perfectly good product, and  GPC marketers
> unable ot overcome  that trashing...


> > My originally post claimed the GPC was "in the family" of an applicance
PC.
> > With a 486, you can make it a Pentium via an Overdrive upgrade, for
example.
> > You can boost the memory, add adapters, improve or upgrade the BIOS,
and do
> > other mods to the motherboard from off the shelf parts at competitive
> > pricing. Appliance PCs are not made for that purpose. 99.9% of the owners
of
> > appliance PCs are never going to tinker under the hood. Yet many owners
of
> > 486s, over the years, have had the covers off and made multiple upgrades.



> >>the global pc is no more an "appliance pc" than a clone 486/100 running
> >>windows with 8mb ram and a 4gb hard drive and a 56k modem.

> >>if i erased the hard drive on the GPC and installed ms-dos6.2 adn
> >>windows 3.1, or even installed  win95 or win98se, would you still call
> >>it an appliance??

> >>an appliance is a webtv..  a very limited in usefullness device which
> >>totally useless if you do not have the overpriced webtv service..  a
> >>computer running windows or geos is more versatile.. like being able
to
> >>write letters, do spreadsheets,  create nice graphics based documents,
> >>use the internet, etc etc,etc,..     a sigle funciton device is an
> >>appliance.. a multifunciton device is a computer..

> >>and by the way, thanks to GWREPRAY emailing me a small patch
> >>(update0.pak  -- which was incredibly easy to install.. a no brainer..
i
> >>am so impressed with this GPC.. it is the real "idiots computer" for
> >>people who do not want to buy idiot books), i was online with prodigy
on
> >>my global pc "appliance" doing things this evening like reading the
new
> >>york times online, checking rebates on computer part purchases and
> >>checking my yahoo email..

> >>and not one lockup either...

> >>more later..


> >>>Hyubso,

> >>>The GPC its designed to be in the family of an applicance PC. A closed

> > end

> >>>system that has limited scaleability. Great if it does exactly what
you
> >>>want, but a potential * if it does not. If you are on an applicance

> > PC,

> >>>like the GPC or the Brother notebook, for example, then you are more
> >>>insulated from the necessity of learning about memory managers and
the

> > like.

> >>>You're also closed out of doing all the things that a non-applicance
PC

> > is

> >>>capable of providing its owner.

> >>>For non-applicance PCs, if I had not read through scores of GEOS and
DOS
> >>>related "Tweaking Issues" over the years, then I would be inclined
to

> > think

> >>>it wasn't a problem.




> >>>>>GEOS Simplicity: GEOS users invariably have to learn how to use DOS

> >>>memory

> >>>>>manger(s) or other facets central to being on an OS that relies heavily

> >>>on

> >>>>>DOS.

> >>>>i did not have to learn any dos comnads on the new  global pc i just
got
> >>>>off of ebay.. in fact, it boots faster, is less noisy (actually totally
> >>>>silnet)it was easier to learn than windows 95.    alos, win95 relies
> >>>>more on dos than does geos.   try running win95 or 98 without himem.sys
> >>>>being loaded.

> >>>>>GEOS Quality: GEOS, Windows, Linux, and Macs all have great quality

> >>>output,

> >>>>>but GEOS is limited in the quality of the driver they have.

> >>>>a geos printout on an HP LaserJet 4L looks fabulous..  no reasonable
> >>>>person would say it is bad or limited or out of date or whatever other
> >>>>dumb term you come up wiht to describe what in reality is fabulous

> > output.

> >>>>>When in fact, GEOS
> >>>>>lost the GENERAL FEATURES war when Windows 95 came out, and has been

> >>>trying

> >>>>>to catch up ever since.

> >>>>baloney.. geos wins hands down in general features such as speed and
> >>>>ease of installation, compatability among native apps. ( ever try
> >>>>getting the spell checker ot work on outlook express 6 and winxp --
ha
> >>>>ha -- spend a ton of money on new improved junk and you still have
to
> >>>>hire a tech to fix microsoft mistakes / errors and ommissions!), return
> >>>>on investment in computer hardware,   also, a barebones win95 or win98
> >>>>installation leaves you wiht limited apps, unlike geos, where one
gets
> >>>>full featuredd apps with the software package.    with winodws you
are
> >>>>out big $$$ unless you bootleg your software or find it at goodwill
or
> >>>>buy it used off of ebay.

> >>>>>For example, in the last 3 years, I doubt NDO or BBX
> >>>>>office apps have had many improvements.

> >>>>the office apps are so good it is not wise to spend limited  time
adn
> >>>>money adding small features when  that $$ and time could be better
spent
> >>>>improving the internet apps.

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by hyubs » Fri, 27 Jun 2003 11:27:54


then why does ensemble lite run on my athlon 2000+ under win98??  has
breadbox updated geos???

> Nope. The "fast CPU bug" is well documented and well know. 800 KHz is simply
> a starting point for it.



>>i was responding to your message that geos has a fast cpu bug and won't
>>run on a faster than 800 mhz clone..

>>can't you read???


>>>What on Earth are you even talking about?



>>>>today i downloaded the latest breadbox geos demo adn it runs fine under
>>>>win98se on my athlon 2000+ with 756mb ram and a 160GB hard drive.

>>>>and i never had to apply a patch...

>>>>silly bob


>>>>>Now now. It is well know GEOS suffers from the fast CPU bug, somewhere

>>>in

>>>>>the 800 MHz and up range. It won't even run on 2.5 GHz. Silly man!

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by Pat » Fri, 27 Jun 2003 13:24:41



Quote:> so i guess you are saying that an old first generation 486sx16 laptop
> computer,  upgradeable to 8mb max ram (if you can find the ram), with a
> max 300mb hard drive,  and one pcmcia slot for a 14.4 modem, is a real
> computer , while a gpc with better specs is an appliance??

I was talking desktop vs. GPC. Laptop vs. GeoBook. Don't want to mix
metaphors.

Quote:> most laptop computer owners do not tinker under the hood, and most would
> say their laptops are not appliances, but computers..

Gee, I thought I was clearly talking about a desktop. And people open up
their desktops to install hardware.

Quote:> this is why the GPC died..  intelligent people in the industry
> intentionally trashing a perfectly good product, and  GPC marketers
> unable ot overcome  that trashing...

I am guessing the GPC died because it ran into the meltdown of the NASDAQ
market, which brought down a ton of companies who used equity to fund
projects. In addition, the Venture Capitalists stopped handing over cash.
Money is what lubricates the internal workings of manufacturers.
 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by C BLANK » Fri, 27 Jun 2003 15:23:06


***Minor Setup. <Smirk> GEOS often requires tweaking of DOS memory manager,
plus other AUTOEXEC and CONFIGSYS parameters, not to mention GEOS tweaks for
various and sundry reasons. Look back at the number of messages in COGM, and***

Pat, there are a handful of settings to setup GEOS in DOS. They are easy to
learn and with a little help from such groups as this, the few who need the
help (I was one back then) learn easily. Once set up there is little that ever
needs to be done again. The biggest flurry of help desired posts in the old AOL
forum and here had mainly to do with dealing with MSDOS 5 on up and fast
systems beyond 486s. That was fixed in newer GEOS versions than Ensemble 2.01.
Haven't seen many posts since then about DOS setup issues with GEOS.

Chip Blank
GUI
GeoGrafix

The GEOS Users International website is at:
http://hometown.aol.com/GUIUSA/GUI_USA.html

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by C BLANK » Fri, 27 Jun 2003 15:26:46


***The compromised output from GEOS is not what the user paid for. You buy a
1200dpi printer and you want that resolution.***

Pat, Really? If 1200 dpi is essential, use Windows. I do. But that need is
almost non-existant, since the 300 dpi of GEOS is very good. Remember that GEOS
drivers were built on the high end, so 300 dpi in GEOS actually comes out
looking better, especially in dot matrix.

Chip Blank
GUI
GeoGrafix

The GEOS Users International website is at:
http://hometown.aol.com/GUIUSA/GUI_USA.html