Living in the past

Living in the past

Post by hyubs » Thu, 19 Jun 2003 06:35:13



Quote:> GEOS will only see a modern PC like it was a 386 PC.

Windows sees a modern 2.5 ghz pentium 4 like is it was pentium I.

Quote:> In fact, GEOS and DOS lack the ability to discover the accelerators on new
> PCs.

Windwos also lacks the ability to discover  modern accelerators..  only
when the accelerator manufacturers write device drivers for the
accelerators do they become usable to windows..

and later, microsoft packages those formerly free to download from the
manufacturer device driver into windwos and remarkets  the same old
windows  as a newer version "with an exciitn new look, teh best windows
ever, easier and easeier, blah blah blah"   that now costs the enduser
another $89 plus hours of wasted time in installtion headaches.

Quote:>They will never be able to take advantage of the capabilities of many
> video cards, and its not just 3D.

   baloney.. geos and windows are identical.. they both require device
drivers to use new hardware

Quote:>In reality, you are
> not accounting for Windows using the new hardware to its advantage and GEOS
> not being able to use it.

it is windows device drivers that enable windows to make use of new
hardware, same as with geos.
 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by Bob » Thu, 19 Jun 2003 08:08:00


The simple fact of the matter is, and all reading this thread must be
laughing their ass off, is that the price of the OS is built into the end
price of the PC. You can go off of any other tangent you wish to try to
mislead your ignorance of fact but you cannot. You said in no uncertain
terms that the pre-installed OS on an OEM PC is free. This is both ignorant
and stupid.


> Bob, I told you, IN ONE WORD LIKE YOU REQUESTED, to go to best buy and
> buy one pc off the self with no os and another with the os and tell me
> the price difference.

> cmon bob, what's holding  you up??

> ordering a pc  adn buying a pc off the shelf is not the same thing..

>   when you order a pc without an OS, you have to wait for it to be built
> and delivered... an ****added cost***** in wasted time for peole who nee
> a computer right now..  people should be able to buy BLANK hard drive
> PCs at a store and be able to carry them home right then.  they can buy
> cheap linux pcs at stores like fry's, which msft dislikes for some odd
> reason

> the fact is,

> windows is   **** free****  to retail customers on oem pcs,

> while..

> windows is a ****tax****   to oem manufacturers..

> while

> windows is a   *highly profitable, resold over and over and over to the
> same people****  product for microsoft

> Bob, you have heard of the windows tax, have you not???

> Taht is how the computer os market is still structured, even after the
> famous governemtn antiturst case which in reality microsoft won, even if
> it lost on paper.


> > No not at all. You can order a PC sans OS for less then the same PC with
OS.
> > The OS is NOT free. Period. You may try to in some way "think" it so,
but it
> > ain't. The price one pays for an OEM PC with a pre-installed OS contains
> > built into that very price, the price of the OS.



> >>***if you can't get a refund for something that is newly purchsaed adn
> >>unused, you obviously never paid for it.***

> >>He has a point. You can look at the software, then, as a freebie premium

> > to

> >>sell the hardware better. Kind of like getting a toaster for opening a

> > bank

> >>account. You can't give the toaster back to the bank for a refund
either.

> >>Chip Blank
> >>GUI
> >>GeoGrafix

> >>The GEOS Users International website is at:
> >>http://hometown.aol.com/GUIUSA/GUI_USA.html


 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by Bob » Thu, 19 Jun 2003 08:09:17


Now now. It is well know GEOS suffers from the fast CPU bug, somewhere in
the 800 MHz and up range. It won't even run on 2.5 GHz. Silly man!


Quote:

> > GEOS will only see a modern PC like it was a 386 PC.

> Windows sees a modern 2.5 ghz pentium 4 like is it was pentium I.

> > In fact, GEOS and DOS lack the ability to discover the accelerators on
new
> > PCs.

> Windwos also lacks the ability to discover  modern accelerators..  only
> when the accelerator manufacturers write device drivers for the
> accelerators do they become usable to windows..

> and later, microsoft packages those formerly free to download from the
> manufacturer device driver into windwos and remarkets  the same old
> windows  as a newer version "with an exciitn new look, teh best windows
> ever, easier and easeier, blah blah blah"   that now costs the enduser
> another $89 plus hours of wasted time in installtion headaches.

> >They will never be able to take advantage of the capabilities of many
> > video cards, and its not just 3D.

>    baloney.. geos and windows are identical.. they both require device
> drivers to use new hardware

> >In reality, you are
> > not accounting for Windows using the new hardware to its advantage and
GEOS
> > not being able to use it.

> it is windows device drivers that enable windows to make use of new
> hardware, same as with geos.

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by Bob » Thu, 19 Jun 2003 09:04:39




> > it is windows device drivers that enable windows to make use of new
> > hardware, same as with geos.

LOL! Same as with any OS! Problem with GEOS is there ain't no drivers for
the "new", (1992 and on :), hardware : - )
 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by C BLANK » Thu, 19 Jun 2003 15:17:40



Date: Tue, Jun 17, 2003 15:48 EDT

No not at all. You can order a PC sans OS for less then the same PC with OS.
The OS is NOT free. Period. You may try to in some way "think" it so, but it
ain't. The price one pays for an OEM PC with a pre-installed OS contains
built into that very price, the price of the OS.



Quote:> ***if you can't get a refund for something that is newly purchsaed adn
> unused, you obviously never paid for it.***

> He has a point. You can look at the software, then, as a freebie premium
to
> sell the hardware better. Kind of like getting a toaster for opening a
bank
> account. You can't give the toaster back to the bank for a refund either.
>***

Each manufacturer decides how to sell his hardware. Some go so low on
price/profit that they offer the OS/GUI at your option, including DOS at times.
Those that market in the stores where most computer buyers go to get their
first or second computer generally leave you no option but to take what they
preload. These computer makers are the ones that use the OS/GUI as a sales
premium to sell the hardware and who would not refund your money to return the
software preloaded.

Chip Blank
GUI
GeoGrafix

The GEOS Users International website is at:
http://hometown.aol.com/GUIUSA/GUI_USA.html

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by C BLANK » Thu, 19 Jun 2003 15:26:25



Date: Tue, Jun 17, 2003 19:09 EDT

Now now. It is well know GEOS suffers from the fast CPU bug, somewhere in
the 800 MHz and up range. It won't even run on 2.5 GHz. Silly man!
***

WOW! So how many millions of legacy systems below 800 MHz are there for GEOS to
run on. I will NEVER run out of systems for my GEOS.

Chip Blank
GUI
GeoGrafix

The GEOS Users International website is at:
http://hometown.aol.com/GUIUSA/GUI_USA.html

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by C BLANK » Thu, 19 Jun 2003 15:29:56


***But not too fast as it KR's! :) The benefit of running a GEOS app on a
"faster", (and that being a relative term), is not very beneficial. Use a
386/33Mhz, VS a P133 for example. Very little speed gain in GEOS.***

I have to disagree. How fast a difference are you poopooing? The speed
difference is very noticeable just going from a 25MHz SX 486 to a 75MHz DX 486.

Chip Blank
GUI
GeoGrafix

The GEOS Users International website is at:
http://hometown.aol.com/GUIUSA/GUI_USA.html

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by Philippe Dallemagn » Thu, 19 Jun 2003 17:13:17


Hi Hans,

Now I remember some other details. Ericsson tried hard to find their way
: IIRC, they first had a combo, based on a rebadged HP360LX (called MC16
: I know it very well, because I bought one - second hand, very cheap -
to have NDO running on this beast instead on this ugly and stupid WinCE)
sold in a big leather case, along a IR adapter that you could plug at
the base of your Ericsson-only phone ; then they had a rebadged Psion
Series 5mx (MC218, still a combo), then I think they moved eventually to
an integrated solution based on EPOC/Symbian.

Of course, Nokia was at that time 4 years ahead, thanks to Geos (and to
the Omnigo 700 combo, which was not Geos but DOS, I must recognise).

Philippe.


> Yep, correct! I forgot that one. But prior to the R380, Ericsson had a device
> that were actually two devices connected via  a serial cable. This "device"
> was deployed with WinCe and marketed as a competitior to Nokia 9000. I remember
> a review in a swedish computer magazine, all the devices had their pros and
> cons, but the Ericsson device was not rated high. The winner of that test
> was Nokia 9000. This is not just a coincidence. I heard from many sources
> that the Nokia people were "hungry" looking at everything, turning every
> stone to fine interesting technologies, and having a very humble attitude,
> but the Ericsson people were considering themselves as one of the champions
> in cellular phones, and did not have the same drive as Nokia people. I think
> this explains the current situation very well, Ericsson as a company on decline
> and Nokia are the survivors of the baisse......

> BR,
> Hans


> > Ericsson also had one of the first Symbian-based phone (R380 ?). Shortly
> > after that they searched for money, which ended up in the merge with
> > Sony. No doubt that Microsoft was (at least) contacted or interested at
> > some point (which would have also meant some technology
> > transfers/cooperation).

> > Philippe.


> > > Nah.....that is just baloney......Nokia does not use any thing Microsoft
> > > and does not taking order from Bill G. They work hard to keep away from
> them,
> > > and Microsofts cooperation with Ericsson has been a real failure. No
> wonder
> > > about that.
> > > Ericsson is a company in crisis and Nokia is doing pretty well, away
> from
> > > Microsoft. Breadbox and Nokia is doing well, together. Well, EPOC was
> the
> > > initial name of Symbian and Bill Gates did not have anything to do with
> the
> > > creation of it. Have you heard anything of the computerized refrigirator
> > > from Electrolux/White/Microsoft......probably just another failure..........

> > > BR,
> > > Hans


> > > > Symbian did not exist before that visit, but psion did, as far as
> i
> > > > recall...

> > > > symbian started in june 1998, so bill gates could not join symbian
> if
> > > it
> > > > did not exist yet.

> > > > http://www.symbian.com/about/about.html

> > > > while the cream pie was placed against Bills face on feb 4, 1998,
> 5
> > > > months before symbians birth..

> > > > http://www.bitstorm.org/gates/

> > > > Bill simply went ot nokia to scare the living daylights out of them,
> so
> > > > they would drop GEOS ( a definite cell phone os threat, and potentially
> > > > a desktop os threat, after further okia development)  and lose time
> > > > regrouping while he scrambled for the next few years to get his windows
> > > > CE on track.

> > > > but you are right about cost sharing with other maufacturers.. it
> is the
> > > > other manufactureres, motorola, ericsson, etc who for some reason
> were
> > > > very reluctant to use geos, thus leaving nokia alone in a very lonely
> > > > geos camp, while the rest of the crowd leaned toward psion which led
> to
> > > > the formation of symbian..



> > > > >>we would probably  be there now had nokia not dumped geos after
> Bill
> > > G's
> > > > >>famous cream pie in the face european "vacation"

> > > > > Well, I don't think this is correct. Nokia dumped GEOS because it
> was
> > > real
> > > > > mode. They migrated to Symbian because it was 32-bit and an OS,
> just
> > > as GEOS,
> > > > > made for CCD:s. Bill G did not have anything to do with this, as
> he
> > > was trying
> > > > > to join the Symbian project, but the Symbian project did not want
> Microsoft
> > > > > to join. If Nokia have continued the GEOS road they would have to
> take
> > > all
> > > > > of the development by themselves. By joining Symbian Noika could
> share
> > > the
> > > > > develpoment costs with others, and create common standards. I think
> > > that
> > > > > is why they dumped GEOS

> > > > > BR,
> > > > > Hans

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by Hans Lindgre » Fri, 20 Jun 2003 05:26:13


Yeah, it was the MC16, thanks, I recall that now........ Well, Ericsson
had real problem with the IR, it was very sensitive and shaky. Using the
serial cable was the only reliable option. I also remember that I was trying
to ge a 688 with IR to work with a Dell laptop in Windows, a real mess. Talking
to their support they suggested the using the cable, or the cable+IR. Sigh!
Well the cable+IR made the dataflow somewhat faster than just the cable,
and more reliable, but what a solution and what's the point with IR?.....
IR back in those days wasn't that good. Nowadays it works pretty well. I
can use my old Ericsson T39m with IR connected to my Dell laptop and it works
like a glance.......Well this was a bit off topic.....hrrrrrrrmmmm.....I
apologize......

BR,
Hans


> Hi Hans,

> Now I remember some other details. Ericsson tried hard to find their way
> : IIRC, they first had a combo, based on a rebadged HP360LX (called MC16
> : I know it very well, because I bought one - second hand, very cheap
-
> to have NDO running on this beast instead on this ugly and stupid WinCE)
> sold in a big leather case, along a IR adapter that you could plug at
> the base of your Ericsson-only phone ; then they had a rebadged Psion
> Series 5mx (MC218, still a combo), then I think they moved eventually
to
> an integrated solution based on EPOC/Symbian.

> Of course, Nokia was at that time 4 years ahead, thanks to Geos (and to
> the Omnigo 700 combo, which was not Geos but DOS, I must recognise).

> Philippe.


> > Yep, correct! I forgot that one. But prior to the R380, Ericsson had
a device
> > that were actually two devices connected via  a serial cable. This "device"
> > was deployed with WinCe and marketed as a competitior to Nokia 9000.
I remember
> > a review in a swedish computer magazine, all the devices had their pros
and
> > cons, but the Ericsson device was not rated high. The winner of that
test
> > was Nokia 9000. This is not just a coincidence. I heard from many sources
> > that the Nokia people were "hungry" looking at everything, turning every
> > stone to fine interesting technologies, and having a very humble attitude,
> > but the Ericsson people were considering themselves as one of the champions
> > in cellular phones, and did not have the same drive as Nokia people.
I think
> > this explains the current situation very well, Ericsson as a company
on decline
> > and Nokia are the survivors of the baisse......

> > BR,
> > Hans


> > > Ericsson also had one of the first Symbian-based phone (R380 ?). Shortly
> > > after that they searched for money, which ended up in the merge with
> > > Sony. No doubt that Microsoft was (at least) contacted or interested
at
> > > some point (which would have also meant some technology
> > > transfers/cooperation).

> > > Philippe.


> > > > Nah.....that is just baloney......Nokia does not use any thing Microsoft
> > > > and does not taking order from Bill G. They work hard to keep away
from
> > them,
> > > > and Microsofts cooperation with Ericsson has been a real failure.
No
> > wonder
> > > > about that.
> > > > Ericsson is a company in crisis and Nokia is doing pretty well,
away
> > from
> > > > Microsoft. Breadbox and Nokia is doing well, together. Well, EPOC
was
> > the
> > > > initial name of Symbian and Bill Gates did not have anything to
do with
> > the
> > > > creation of it. Have you heard anything of the computerized refrigirator
> > > > from Electrolux/White/Microsoft......probably just another failure..........

> > > > BR,
> > > > Hans


> > > > > Symbian did not exist before that visit, but psion did, as far
as
> > i
> > > > > recall...

> > > > > symbian started in june 1998, so bill gates could not join symbian
> > if
> > > > it
> > > > > did not exist yet.

> > > > > http://www.symbian.com/about/about.html

> > > > > while the cream pie was placed against Bills face on feb 4, 1998,
> > 5
> > > > > months before symbians birth..

> > > > > http://www.bitstorm.org/gates/

> > > > > Bill simply went ot nokia to scare the living daylights out of
them,
> > so
> > > > > they would drop GEOS ( a definite cell phone os threat, and potentially
> > > > > a desktop os threat, after further okia development)  and lose
time
> > > > > regrouping while he scrambled for the next few years to get his
windows
> > > > > CE on track.

> > > > > but you are right about cost sharing with other maufacturers..
it
> > is the
> > > > > other manufactureres, motorola, ericsson, etc who for some reason
> > were
> > > > > very reluctant to use geos, thus leaving nokia alone in a very
lonely
> > > > > geos camp, while the rest of the crowd leaned toward psion which
led
> > to
> > > > > the formation of symbian..



> > > > > >>we would probably  be there now had nokia not dumped geos after
> > Bill
> > > > G's
> > > > > >>famous cream pie in the face european "vacation"

> > > > > > Well, I don't think this is correct. Nokia dumped GEOS because
it
> > was
> > > > real
> > > > > > mode. They migrated to Symbian because it was 32-bit and an
OS,
> > just
> > > > as GEOS,
> > > > > > made for CCD:s. Bill G did not have anything to do with this,
as
> > he
> > > > was trying
> > > > > > to join the Symbian project, but the Symbian project did not
want
> > Microsoft
> > > > > > to join. If Nokia have continued the GEOS road they would have
to
> > take
> > > > all
> > > > > > of the development by themselves. By joining Symbian Noika could
> > share
> > > > the
> > > > > > develpoment costs with others, and create common standards.
I think
> > > > that
> > > > > > is why they dumped GEOS

> > > > > > BR,
> > > > > > Hans

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by Pat » Fri, 20 Jun 2003 12:34:07


Except for a few non believers, the majority of posters here are the last
vestiges of the GEOS extremists and they are dug in for the duration. Anyone
who tells them that there will be no supplies being dropped from planes, and
they must do with what they have forever, will be met with anger and strong
resistance. Merely telling these extremists that "In My Humble Opinion, Its
Over", is perceived as being hostile behavior.

What is not hostile and would be considered friendly?

Oh Geee, a completely new GEOS will be available for Beta in January of
2004!



> >Fine. So why are you jumping me in a an alley? ;-)

> Do we have a communication problem? To me it seems to be the other way
> round: You are jumping at everyone who still enjoys using GEOS and who
> still maintains a hope for possible improvements in the future.

> Holger

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by Pat » Fri, 20 Jun 2003 12:34:11


No problem, Big Tom. <g>

There is where the analogy is unable to parallel what Windows is capable of.
Namely, scale from the low to the high. Forget about size of box, speed of
processor, etc, for a second. Do you know that neet little THREE LEVELS OF
USER interface that Ensemble 2.x had? Well, under Windows its just bolting a
UI app over Windows and the same thing works. You have this fairly powerful
OS but it can scale to the user. Under Windows XP, its really a multi-user
system. Each user has a profile and it can be setup as simple through
varying degrees of complex. Given that 3 year olds can load a game and play
it without the parents being aware is proof that Windows is not a geek OS at
the low end of the pool.




> | GEOS will only see a modern PC like it was a 386 PC. Yet, many of the
> | hardware advances in new PCs are not visible to GEOS or its
> | underlying DOS. A simple analogy might apply here, and I fully
> | acknowledge that analogies only serve a special purpose of getting a
> | point across. But I offer it, FWIW.
> |

> <snip analogy>

> Pat, that's a really good analogy. But let me take it a step further:
> Some people might not want the care and maintenance that comes with a
> bigger house. More house means more upgrading, painting and decorating,
> and furniture to buy. In fact, many people with large homes make a point
> of vacationing in small cabins that are much like the first house you
> described. They might not want to live there full time, but they like to
> visit, probably because they gain perspective from the variation. And
> keep in mind that some people who can afford to live in a large house
> *choose* to remain in something smaller and simpler because it meets
> their needs.

> Of course, some people choose to live in cardboard boxes, too. We call
> them "crazy". <weg>

> Just wanted to help you gain some perspective!

> Tom

> --
>  -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
> Version: 3.12
> GSS/O d-(+) s: a+ C++ L> W++ N++ w+(--) O?>+ M PS (++)
> PE (+++) Y+(-) PGP X+ t+ 5-(+) X R-
> tv---(-) b++(+++) DI++++ D++ e++>+++ h---->+ r++++>* y++++**
>    ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by C BLANK » Fri, 20 Jun 2003 13:17:06


*** Merely telling these extremists that "In My Humble Opinion, Its
Over", is perceived as being hostile behavior.***

Merely? How about incessant, disrespectful and vulgar?

Chip Blank
GUI
GeoGrafix

The GEOS Users International website is at:
http://hometown.aol.com/GUIUSA/GUI_USA.html

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by Holger La » Fri, 20 Jun 2003 23:28:51



>Except for a few non believers, the majority of posters here are the last
>vestiges of the GEOS extremists and they are dug in for the duration.

You read a GEOS newsgroup and are surprised that it is occupied by
"GEOS extremists"??? - Welcome to the world of Usenet. :-)))

Quote:>Anyone
>who tells them

Yeah, right, we heard your humble opinion, we told you that we are not
interested, now p*** off and leave us alone. (sorry)

Quote:>that there will be no supplies being dropped from planes, and
>they must do with what they have forever, will be met with anger and strong
>resistance. Merely telling these extremists that "In My Humble Opinion, Its
>Over", is perceived as being hostile behavior.

You still have not answered my question what your point is in
repeating this over and over again?

Quote:>What is not hostile and would be considered friendly?

For a start you could just agree to disagree and go on to have more
fruitful discussions.

If that's not what you want then what's the point of you being here?

Oh well, this question has been asked so many times and you have
always avoided the answer, except for the typical troll reply: "This
is a free forum and you cannot shut me up."

Holger

 
 
 

Living in the past

Post by Pat » Sat, 21 Jun 2003 01:56:59


Incessant because I try to answer posts. If I enter one message that says
GEOS IS DEAD. And that generates 10 replies and I reply to the replies, etc,
then it seems incessant. Not other way. I have tried to not answer most of
the posts once, a few years ago, and I got some posts claiming I was
admitting I was wrong and I had not guts, that sort of reasoning. Go figure!

Disrespectful, of whom? Is it disrespectful to tell Hyubso he's a child when
he says stuff that just about everyone here rolls their eyes when they read?

Vulgar. Geeez, I try to elevate my language to a higher level, but I admit
to slipping a bit. Have I ONCE, in my life, ever used the likes of the
F-Word? Show me where?

I guess that Incessant Vulgarity Espoused by Disrespectful ME is what you
get. ROTFL!



Quote:> *** Merely telling these extremists that "In My Humble Opinion, Its
> Over", is perceived as being hostile behavior.***

> Merely? How about incessant, disrespectful and vulgar?

> Chip Blank
> GUI
> GeoGrafix

> The GEOS Users International website is at:
> http://hometown.aol.com/GUIUSA/GUI_USA.html