I'm back, I thought this group was dead

I'm back, I thought this group was dead

Post by Tom Accuost » Sat, 28 Jun 2003 00:26:32




| Tom Accousti swirled the electrons into the following patterns:
|
|| I like to play word games. Just for fun, I substituted
|| references to GEOS with "buggy whips" in [a previous] post:
||   [snip]
|| Okay, maybe that was unfair.
|
| No, no. It was pretty clever actually!
|
|
|| You know, for a (virtually) dead piece of software, this group
|| generates more discussion than would be considered sane for most
|| non-GEOS involved people.
|
| Well, two points.
|
| (1) What would you expect? It's a GEOS newsgroup. Duh!

I guess it's surprising how much discussion is generated in general. I
mean, it's not like GEOS is under active development, frequent releases,
upgrades, etc. It's not as if it has a lot of different applications.
It's not as if it were a direct competitor to some ofther software
package. It's mostly bickering. I mean, I've learned a lot by reading
the posts, but it's still bickering.

|
| (2) If you consider this group generates more traffic than is sane,
| consider that two posters (let's call them Poster A and Poster B)
| generate maybe 40-50% of the traffic here about software they
| don't use and they don't like.
|
| And to continue your amusing Buggy Whip analogy, I present the
| following Buggy Whip portraits:
|
| Poster A:
| The Buggy Whip ver 2/New Deal Buggy Whip/ Breadbox Buggy Whip were
| never as good as Buggy Whip ver 1 (aka "The Stick"). You people
| are so fanatical. The guy who invented The Stick was a genius and
| everyone after that has just been hacking and re-hashing The Stick.
| Haven't used Buggy Whip, but I met the inventor of The Stick once,
| and fell in love. He invented wood too, you know. Maybe even carbon.
| You people are so fanatical. These are the rules for followers of The
| Stick. No, I don't use The Stick. Or the Buggy Whip. Here are the
| rules. None of you here are REAL followers of The Stick . The REAL
| followers of The Stick here will know that. I am the only REAL
| follower of The Stick. No, I don't use The Stick. Or the Buggy Whip.
| You people are so fanatical. I demand to know what the plans are
| for the Buggy Whip. Why the hell not? You people are so fanatical.
| The Buggy Whip sucks. The Stick on the other hand ... [repeat from
| start]
|
|
| Poster B:
| The Buggy Whip sucks. Always has, always will. Sold my Buggy Whip
| years ago. I've been sick. Thanks for the kind wishes, now get
| stuffed. Here are a hundred and twenty-five posts from me, all the
| same. Why are you so easily offended? Here's some help. Here's some
| abuse. The Buggy whip sucks ... [repeat from start - we've gone
| through two cycles of this so far by my count, and are now into a
| third]
|
|
| Sorry, tell us about sanity again ... ?

<snort>

Actually, I did find that amusing. <g>

--
Tom

 
 
 

I'm back, I thought this group was dead

Post by Tom Accuost » Sat, 28 Jun 2003 00:26:39



|| An outhouse works exactly the same now as it did then so why use
|| indoor plumbing and a toilet?
|
| a geos toilet uses only 1.6 liters per flush.. a windwos toilet uses 6
| gallons per flush, and clogs up every other day.

Okay, hy, now we're just getting ridiculous.

|
|| A double-hung weight and pulley
|| window works exactly the same now as it did then so why use energy
|| efficient thermal pane windows?
|
| talk about efficiency!   i have ot open my doors and windows so the
| hot air that blows out of my athon 2000 blow dryer of a windwos box
| does not bake me out of the hosue,a dn does not run up my electic
| bill for air conditioning..  so much for your thermal window pane,
|   which when opened, has zero thermal benefits.

Yes, and the buggies used horses which were less polluting than
automobiles. But I'm sure that you wouldn't want to give up your car or
mass transit.

||
|| This is mentality of the GEOS user. It is no use applying logic to
|| their thought process. You may as well argue with a door knob.
||
|
| that is the mentality of the windows user..  no brains at all..  no
| ability to rationally evaluate a product's quality,..not even aware
| that there are compeeting products out there,  jsut swallow whatever
| party linie microsft feeds them  ("its newer< its always the easiest
| windows ever" , "sit back adn relax for the next hour of your
| valuable while windwos installs on your pc") and accept it  as teh
| gretest thing on earth, then spend another 89 dolars and about a
| weeks time struggling to get the new improved product to work
| properly..

That's just it - Geos is *not* a competing product. They're not even in
the same class. Oh, they were, 10 years ago, but you simply can't do
anything beyond the basics with Geos.
Look, I like to take my CD's and copy the music, convert them to MP3 and
reburn them onto discs to play at work so I'm not constnatly switching
albums. I burn data cd's for backup, since I have spreadsheets that no
longer fit onto floppies anymore. Some of my vendors have catalogues on
DVD now. I use cad software that... oh forget it, nobody is going to
develop CAD for Geos.

Simply put, GEOS is an outdated system. .Yes, it's useful, it's fun, it
was ahead of it's time - 10 years ago. But if you want anything more
than basic computing, then it's not, I repeat, *not* a competing
product.

--
Tom

 
 
 

I'm back, I thought this group was dead

Post by Tom Accuost » Sat, 28 Jun 2003 00:26:54



<snip>

|| Think most
|| people want the hassle anymore?
|
|
| guess not.. maybe that is why they spend a fortune on new pcs and new
| operating systems..  so they don't have ot fiddle with  old hard to
| configure and install  microsfot software on their new pcs which they
| bought becasue the old pcs worked fine but were hard ot configure..

Two things:
1) A hard to configure PC is a marketing nightmare. It was only when PnP
came along that the average user became more interested in owning a PC.
Nobody wants to spend a lot of money on an appliance if they can't
figure out how to work it.

2) The old PC's worked fine for what they did, but for people who want
to do new things, like music and video editing, cd and dvd burning, run
network applications, or take advantage of broadband connections, the
old PC's were no longer "fine".

|| try to make
|| up some reasons why GEOS is a perfectly acceptable replacement for
|| Win users.
|
|
| for many users, geos would be a great substitute for windwos, at much
| less cost in hardware adn software...  i remember back in 1993+1994,
| working at packaard bell, getting tech supprot calls from windows
| users who did not use their pc but 3 times per year, but now having
| hardware or software "troubles"..   for these poeople, a GPC like
| product would be just fine.  the GPC really is a great product.. buy
| one on EBAY.. you'll see.

Hey, I agree - for many users, GEOS is great. My mom for years only used
to type letters. My father only used his to keep track of his Navy
reunion stuff. My friends parents don't do anything more than send email
and print out stuff once in a while. For these people, it's fine.

But time marches on. My mother now has a digital camera and wants to
send and recieve pics of her granddaughter. Geos doesn't read the newer
picture formats, let alone handle the USB that lets the camera become an
extra hard drive so she can drag the files off her camera into a folder.
There isn't any geos software that lets her do this. She should use
geos, then drop out to Win just to look at piocs, then go back to Geos?
I don't think so.

Hey, I use Geos (ND now) often at work when I take my old laptop and use
the RS232 file transfer stuff. I edit things with Ed's great Edit+
(thank you, Ed G!). But I could use Win 31 to do the smae thing (it's
installed on the same laptop). But when I need to build big spreadsheets
with macros and multiple pages and share them on the network, MS Office,
StarOffice and Lotus work much better, so that's what we use. On my
Athlon, of course....

i think geos is great
| as it is and can be made even greater with further developemnt adn
| wider distribution....

Sure, ot's of things could - even buggy whips. But the chances of that
happening look more slim as time goes on.

|| They
|| seemed perfectly content to play with their Amigas, fully realizing
|| that they have limitations - a realization that seems to be lacking
|| here at times.
|
|
| geos' limitaitons are the limtations in one's mind....

Very Zen, thank you.

geos has hte
| superior design structure in place and has always had the potential to
| grow,   you cna see it with  each geos product released..  now if
| only geos would b released from its proprietary prison so the whole
| world ahve an ownership stake in it.

I think that you're living in a dream world. I would like to see it
happen myself, but I dont' think that it will.

--
Tom

 
 
 

I'm back, I thought this group was dead

Post by hyubs » Sat, 28 Jun 2003 02:30:52



> That's just it - Geos is *not* a competing product. They're not even in
> the same class. Oh, they were, 10 years ago, but you simply can't do
> anything beyond the basics with Geos.

that is the marketing problem geos suffers from.. people calling  the
work geos does "basic"  but if you use MSOffice to do the exact same
work, it is somehow ,no longer basic, but "advanced" or "modern" or
"cool" or some such silly designation for what is exactly the same type
of output.

Quote:> Look, I like to take my CD's and copy the music, convert them to MP3 and
> reburn them onto discs to play at work so I'm not constnatly switching
> albums. I burn data cd's for backup, since I have spreadsheets that no
> longer fit onto floppies anymore. Some of my vendors have catalogues on
> DVD now.

at this point int time, in certain instances windows is more appropriate
for some users needs.. but most people can fulfill their word processing
adn spreadsheet adn  drawing software needs  using the "basics" when
applied ot geos(, but somehow the"advanceds" when these exact same  uses
are fulfilled with windwos) adn possibly even web html based catalogues
on dvd fulfilled using webmagic..  don't know how much work it would
take ot  get geos to use USB thumb drives..  that would eliminate teh
floppy file size issue and bypass cd-rw needs in many cases...

Quote:> I use cad software that... oh forget it, nobody is going to
> develop CAD for Geos.

not everon in the wrolkd is an architect/engineer using cad programs..

Quote:> Simply put, GEOS is an outdated system.

it is not outdated anymore than my 20 year old 50MPG jetta diesel is...!
  god, my car gets better fuel mileage and is safer in desgn,has
stronger bumpers, adn is more reliable than most new cars out there!
geos is  more effiicient, easier to maintain, cheaper ot own adn 'fuel"
  and does much the same stuff windwos does, only better..  it is
ceratinly not "outdated"  there is not one fan in the GPC to clog wiht
dust adn freexe up adn give you blue screens of death adn a $50-$100
*the customer repair bill like on windows machines

.Yes, it's useful, it's fun, it

Quote:> was ahead of it's time -

it is till ahead of its time..  still..    that is why microsfot copies
nad integrates geos desgin features with every new verison of windwos or IE

10 years ago. But if you want anything more

Quote:> than basic computing,

there you go again wiht your "basic" computing...

Quote:>then it's not, I repeat, *not* a competing
> product.

if it was not a competin product, msft would not have ot exclude
competing prodcuts for oem preloading, becasue other than linux, there
are no other competing products, adn linux is no competition for windows
on the consumer desktop, while geos is a ready made, readily available
competitor on the desktop.

geos really should have been gnu licensed with the death of geoworks..
  they really blew it locking the software up  in a  proprietary prison
for another 20 years

 
 
 

I'm back, I thought this group was dead

Post by Hans Lindgre » Sat, 28 Jun 2003 02:58:58


Well, I don't know, but it will certainly not be a PC.

BR,
Hans


> maybe that device is a 128MB bootable usb thumb drive??



> >  the future looks bright, they only need
> >>to find the magic device to load GEOS32 on....... Cheers to Breadbox!

 
 
 

I'm back, I thought this group was dead

Post by Ti » Sat, 28 Jun 2003 17:56:47



> I guess it's surprising how much discussion is generated in general. I
> mean, it's not like GEOS is under active development, frequent releases,
> upgrades, etc. It's not as if it has a lot of different applications.
> It's not as if it were a direct competitor to some ofther software
> package. It's mostly bickering. I mean, I've learned a lot by reading
> the posts, but it's still bickering.

Conceded. Wish it weren't so, but you are quite right.

Quote:>> And to continue your amusing Buggy Whip analogy, I present the
>>  following Buggy Whip portraits: ...[snip]
> Actually, I did find that amusing. <g>

Thanks. [grin] Recognise anyone?
 
 
 

I'm back, I thought this group was dead

Post by Jens-Michael Gros » Sat, 28 Jun 2003 20:54:43


Bob schrieb:

Quote:

> An outhouse works exactly the same now as it did then so why use indoor
> plumbing and a toilet?

Ask the companies who make millions with renting dixie-toilets for
building sites or street fairs or such.
They whill tell you a zillion reasons why indoor toilets aren't much
usefule there.

Quote:> A hand-pump works exactly the same now as it did then
> so why use indoor plumbing and a faucet?

Ask those who do not have a water plant in reach and are not connected
to a water network.
After WW2, Russian soldiers ripped faucets from German buildings and
nailed them to their fences at home, wondering why there was no water
coming out. I guess they were happy not to have removed their hand-pumps
brfore trying the faucets.

Quote:> A double-hung weight and pulley
> window works exactly the same now as it did then so why use energy efficient
> thermal pane windows?

There I can give you an answer: because I had to buy them and pay for
them, while my landlord is responsible for the double-hung windows and
they are still there. Also, these windows absorb the noise from the
planes of the nearby aiport way better than the thermal plane windows.
And they are almost equally good for preserving energy.
More: in Sweden (or so) the government put much money into low-energy
houses with thermal-plane windows and many other gadgets to save energy.
With the result that after very few years the houses were unusable
because of the side-effects like condensing water on the walls.
These themal-plane windows were new, modern, effective and didn't pay
after all. Just like these Redmond-windows.

Quote:> This is mentality of the GEOS user. It is no use applying logic to their
> thought process. You may as well argue with a door knob.

Indeed, a door-knob can be turned. You cannot :)

Grossibaer

--
Take a class. Read a book. Don't expect computers to be simple, because
they are not.

 
 
 

I'm back, I thought this group was dead

Post by Jens-Michael Gros » Sat, 28 Jun 2003 20:59:57


Bob schrieb:

Quote:

> MS did not start in Bill Gates' garage. You're thinking of Apple.

Indeed, MS started in a misused university computer. Or, if you prefer
this version, in a different company whose product was bought cheap and
relabeled after it has already been sold to IBM. In any case it didn't
start in any place that belonged to Mr. Gates.

Grossibaer

--
Take a class. Read a book. Don't expect computers to be simple, because
they are not.

 
 
 

I'm back, I thought this group was dead

Post by Bob » Sun, 29 Jun 2003 06:34:52



Quote:> Bob schrieb:

> > An outhouse works exactly the same now as it did then so why use indoor
> > plumbing and a toilet?

> Ask the companies who make millions with renting dixie-toilets for
> building sites or street fairs or such.
> They whill tell you a zillion reasons why indoor toilets aren't much
> usefule there.

<the rest of the utter stupidity snipped>

Oh Gawd! Do you freakin' believe this? Whew!

 
 
 

I'm back, I thought this group was dead

Post by Bob » Sun, 29 Jun 2003 06:35:39


MS started when Paul Allen got his basic tape to run on the Altar.


Quote:> Bob schrieb:

> > MS did not start in Bill Gates' garage. You're thinking of Apple.

> Indeed, MS started in a misused university computer. Or, if you prefer
> this version, in a different company whose product was bought cheap and
> relabeled after it has already been sold to IBM. In any case it didn't
> start in any place that belonged to Mr. Gates.

> Grossibaer

> --
> Take a class. Read a book. Don't expect computers to be simple, because
> they are not.

 
 
 

I'm back, I thought this group was dead

Post by Ray Kopczyns » Sun, 29 Jun 2003 09:42:19


<< MS started when Paul Allen got his basic tape to run on the Altar. >>

Now, having been a good "altar boy" in my parochial youth, the above would have
been a sight to see for sure!  :-)

I'm presuming you meant "Altair"  ( http://virtualaltair.com/ )

Ray

 
 
 

I'm back, I thought this group was dead

Post by Bob » Sun, 29 Jun 2003 22:00:38


:)

Quote:> << MS started when Paul Allen got his basic tape to run on the Altar. >>

> Now, having been a good "altar boy" in my parochial youth, the above would
have
> been a sight to see for sure!  :-)

> I'm presuming you meant "Altair"  ( http://virtualaltair.com/ )

> Ray

 
 
 

I'm back, I thought this group was dead

Post by C S » Mon, 30 Jun 2003 00:10:03


what ever happened to Cami Lee?

> :)


> > << MS started when Paul Allen got his basic tape to run on the Altar. >>

> > Now, having been a good "altar boy" in my parochial youth, the above
would
> have
> > been a sight to see for sure!  :-)

> > I'm presuming you meant "Altair"  ( http://virtualaltair.com/ )

> > Ray

 
 
 

I'm back, I thought this group was dead

Post by Bob » Mon, 30 Jun 2003 06:04:33


He was smart enough to give up on GEOS years, and years ago. Around 1997 was
the last from him. Smart man.


Quote:> what ever happened to Cami Lee?