ADVOCACY: New Macs out - Falcon price obsolete?

ADVOCACY: New Macs out - Falcon price obsolete?

Post by JON ARVID LOVST » Sat, 13 Feb 1993 08:49:26



At last my newsreader is letting me post again (It's my fourth attempt to
post this info...)

It's lifted from an online Mac "mag" called TIDBITS. Have a little peek just
below...
...

  LC III
  Apple has finally broken their ban on using the number three in a
  machine name, a ban reportedly started when the Apple III flopped.
  I predict that the LC III will not suffer the Apple III's fate -
  it's basically a IIci in an LC case with its 25 MHz 68030 and full
  32-bit data bus.

  The LC III's expansion slots make sense for a cross between the
  now outdated LC/LC II and IIci, with a single NuBus slot (although
  the internal size limits the NuBus card length to 6.5 inches), an
  LC-type processor-direct slot, and a socket for a math
  coprocessor.

  The LC III takes up to 36 MB via a new single 72-pin SIMM slot.
  Its internal video can do 256 colors, expandable to 32,768 with
  more VRAM. Interestingly, the LC III will include RAM disk
  software - presumably the same sort that comes with the
  PowerBooks. The price is pretty good at $1,379 for a 4/80
  configuration with no monitor. After a long life in the Apple
  product line, the IIci will no longer be sold, so look for some
  major price cuts in the near future.

...

Of course it does not run GEM software nor does it have a DSP, but I've seen
the 15bit display of the Mac and as I know the Falcon has that capability in
interlace only which is virtually useless as a working mode, I'm starting to
wonder if the Falcon pricing is competitive. Atari must stop "releasing"
products with prices just to have them on the street 9 months late with the
same price... And, Apple cuts their prices every 3 or 6 months - The Atari
SLM605 has had the same price the last two years (at least here, but then
again, it's almost impossible to get hold of one - when should the SCSI
based SLM406 arrive again??).

I'm starting to get really tired of this. I *MIGHT* be devoured into the
ranks of the mindless MacMen anytime soon...

Nomad

Jon Lovstad                |   Sorry, but this part of my .sig file has been

                           |
SnailMail: Hjortsbergvn 7  |
N-1784 HALDEN, NORWAY      |   OOOPS! He took the other part as well...
Voice: +47 9 17 59 39      |

 
 
 

ADVOCACY: New Macs out - Falcon price obsolete?

Post by Dale Ada » Sat, 13 Feb 1993 22:50:25




Quote:> Anyway, just for kicks, I'll pick on the LC III for awhile.

>     - Does't use standard SIMM slots (unless you own a NeXTStation Turbo)
>         This just means that every Tom* and Harry store won't have
>         the memory on Hand.  But, since most people seem to order
>         memory mail-order you might just have to look around awhile first.

"Standard" is a relative term.  The NeXT machines are not the only ones to
use 72-pin DRAM SIMMs.  The Amiga 4000 does, as do a number of DOS
machines.  Actually, the 72-pin SIMMs, with their 32-bit data bus
interface, make a lot of sense if you think about it.  You can upgrade
your memory one SIMM at a time instead of by twos or fours as is the case
with other SIMM types.

Quote:>     - Has there been a Mac (ever) that didn't break lots of software upon
>         release (like the ci,lc,si,cx,fx,quadra, etc)  Hmm maybe the
>         Quadra 950, Classic, Classic II, LC II didn't cause massive
>         incompatibility problems, at that point, I ceased to care.

For the most part, software compatibility problems are caused by software
vendors that don't follow the (by now, very well) established rules for
Mac programming.  True, occasionally Apple has done something wrong and
has broken some software.  But it's far and away more of a problem with
the 3rd party software folks.

Quote:>     - I'd pick on the lackluster number of slots, but in comparison w/ the
>         Falcon, this seems pointless.

>     - I don't know about it's internal video, but the video on the LC, LC II
>         si, ci is certainly a CPU drain if an external card is not bought.
>         Believe me there is a world of difference.  (The Falcon might suffer
>         from this as well, but all it will be compared to is the STE, TT,
>         and the Mega, so it should come out ok.  Plus, the Falcon seems to
>         be designed to keep video rolling quickly...but we'll see).

The internal video of the LC and LC II (and LC III,too, for that matter)
does not slow down the machine.  Your assertion is true for the IIsi and
the IIci - they use a cycle-stealing DRAM-based frame buffer approach that
negatively impacts CPU performance.  The LCs, however,  all have
VRAM-based video hardware which does not exhibit this performance
degradation.

- Dale Adams

 
 
 

ADVOCACY: New Macs out - Falcon price obsolete?

Post by JON ARVID LOVST » Sun, 14 Feb 1993 01:24:12



Quote:

>  The LC III takes up to 36 MB via a new single 72-pin SIMM slot.
>  Its internal video can do 256 colors, expandable to 32,768 with
>  more VRAM. Interestingly, the LC III will include RAM disk
>  software - presumably the same sort that comes with the
>  PowerBooks. The price is pretty good at $1,379 for a 4/80
>  configuration with no monitor. After a long life in the Apple
>  product line, the IIci will no longer be sold, so look for some
>  major price cuts in the near future.

As a little hint at what the streetprices will be:
(excerpt from newsposting to the Mac area, // is my comments)

        Here are the updated prices at the GTEch computer store :

        LCIII 4/80      $1250

        Ce610 4/80      $1595  //(25MHz EC040)

        Q700 4/0        $2095  //(25MHz 040 - the real thing...Two months
                                  ago you had to shell out 4 big ones for
                                  it...)

The list also lists all the other models, but I think these will do... The
New 16MHz Color Classic goes for almost the same as a LCIII.

Any thoughts?

Nomad

Jon Lovstad                |   Sorry, but this part of my .sig file has been

                           |
SnailMail: Hjortsbergvn 7  |
N-1784 HALDEN, NORWAY      |   OOOPS! He took the other part as well...
Voice: +47 9 17 59 39      |

 
 
 

ADVOCACY: New Macs out - Falcon price obsolete?

Post by ted croft bro » Sat, 13 Feb 1993 11:09:49



        [LC III specs deleted]

Were were you.  I posted stuff about the LCIII over a week ago (with prices!).

Quote:>Of course it does not run GEM software nor does it have a DSP, but I've seen
>the 15bit display of the Mac and as I know the Falcon has that capability in
>interlace only which is virtually useless as a working mode, I'm starting to
>wonder if the Falcon pricing is competitive. Atari must stop "releasing"
>products with prices just to have them on the street 9 months late with the
>same price... And, Apple cuts their prices every 3 or 6 months - The Atari
>SLM605 has had the same price the last two years (at least here, but then
>again, it's almost impossible to get hold of one - when should the SCSI
>based SLM406 arrive again??).

>I'm starting to get really tired of this. I *MIGHT* be devoured into the
>ranks of the mindless MacMen anytime soon...

It's not bad to not lower your prices when they aren't that bad to begin
with.  *BUT* in light of the new Mac prices and the price of those
486 behemoths (not to mention the slowly-being outdated 386's) the price
of the Falcon is not looking so spiffy these days.

Anyway, just for kicks, I'll pick on the LC III for awhile.

    - Does't use standard SIMM slots (unless you own a NeXTStation Turbo)
        This just means that every Tom* and Harry store won't have
        the memory on Hand.  But, since most people seem to order
        memory mail-order you might just have to look around awhile first.

    - Has there been a Mac (ever) that didn't break lots of software upon
        release (like the ci,lc,si,cx,fx,quadra, etc)  Hmm maybe the
        Quadra 950, Classic, Classic II, LC II didn't cause massive
        incompatibility problems, at that point, I ceased to care.

    - I'd pick on the lackluster number of slots, but in comparison w/ the
        Falcon, this seems pointless.

    - I don't know about it's internal video, but the video on the LC, LC II
        si, ci is certainly a CPU drain if an external card is not bought.
        Believe me there is a world of difference.  (The Falcon might suffer
        from this as well, but all it will be compared to is the STE, TT,
        and the Mega, so it should come out ok.  Plus, the Falcon seems to
        be designed to keep video rolling quickly...but we'll see).

    - Apple has a little distribution problem right now.  It seems they
        can't make computers fast enough.  Now, I *have* heard claims that
        Mac stockpiled the new computers this time so there
        wouldn't be a supply problem, but can you believe them.  Some
        people are mad as they are just getting machines ordered 3-6 mths
        ago!!!  You might be able to get a Falcon and an LC III at the
        same time (but I wouldn't be on *either* Apple or Atari!!!).

Gosh, I'm disappointed, I thought I could dig harder than that. Well, it
does lack some things the falcon has.  The Falcon has CD-quality stereo
sound input (LC III mono 8-bit 22 Khz sound input, but it *comes* with a
microphone, crappy though it may be).  This might be a draw depending on
what you want to use it for.  The mac sounds ok to me for sound-annotation.
It's better than you get over the telephone, which seems to be OK for speech.
(If asked I'll tell you about the Japaneese student who came into out lab
and wanted to run Kanji Talk....) The best thing for the mac is that
*lots* of programs have support for sound annotation on the Mac.  Again, it
depends on what you want to do, and how high your standards are.  The little
I saw of SAM on the Falcon convinced me it was usuable, whereas the Mac
sound players freeze the system till the sound is done.  Some idiot I know
put a 2 min sound as his beep, and the mac did one of those common BEEP BEEP
BEEP things it always does and he was out of it for 6 minutes!  I think the
state of the Mac-sound-thingy world is better now, but I really can't put
all those sounds on the Macs here in the lab, so I haven't kept up.

Of course the Mac games situation is a little bleek to (but it gets better
each month).  I hear there is a *great* new CD-ROM game.  But again, balance
what you want.  Is there an Atari equivalent to Word + Excell (or even
the two #3's int the word processing/spreadsheet world?)  I sure hope
Atari Works Works!!!

Hmmm.  I came out more "pro-Mac" than I thought I would.  Of course, *I*
still haven't decieded what I'm going to do with my money yet. (And I no
longer have a brand-new NeXTStation to shoot for!!!!)  Well, the educational
prices for the LC III are do in tommorrow.  Think I'll stroll over and find
out.  If ya'll really care, I'll post.  But I think we've had enough
of this silly bickering.  If we didn't like Atari products we  wouldn't
be here!!!

>Jon Lovstad                |   Sorry, but this part of my .sig file has been

>                           |

--


 
 
 

ADVOCACY: New Macs out - Falcon price obsolete?

Post by ted croft bro » Sun, 14 Feb 1993 05:30:22





>>  [Memory is non-standared]

>"Standard" is a relative term.  The NeXT machines are not the only ones to
>use 72-pin DRAM SIMMs.  The Amiga 4000 does, as do a number of DOS
>machines.  Actually, the 72-pin SIMMs, with their 32-bit data bus
>interface, make a lot of sense if you think about it.  You can upgrade
>your memory one SIMM at a time instead of by twos or fours as is the case
>with other SIMM types.

This is a given point to you.  I knew  that other computers used them, but
I thought it was a PS/2 or something.  But it does mean that Apple owners
can't sell each other (and ST owners) used memory (unless they find some-
one else with a new mac (or one of those other machines).  This means they
have to remember and learn more about their machine (not a bad thing).
I really wasn't condemming the choice apple made, just pointing out, that
for some, it will be a stickling point.  All in all I think the new memory
is faster and since there are less of them, easier to deal with.

I don't know about the realative prices, but with all the new macs using the
memory and some dos machines, the price should drop steadily.

Quote:>>    [ My point that new mac generally break software ]

>For the most part, software compatibility problems are caused by software
>vendors that don't follow the (by now, very well) established rules for
>Mac programming.  True, occasionally Apple has done something wrong and
>has broken some software.  But it's far and away more of a problem with
>the 3rd party software folks.

Huh...sorry but those machines broke *Apple* software.  They are hardly a
third party develper.  We could go into a long discourse upon the reasons
why those things won't happen again (I mean the 32-bit clean thing is
mostly solved (Execpt for Microsoft!! Word 5.1 ain't 32-bit clean!!!) and
I think the problems with the 040 have been cleaned up (but I still hear
grumbling on the net.)  The real problem is that machines like the LCII and
the si should never have caused a problem, but software manufacturers made
and unreasonable assumption that 030 == FPU and that crashed machines.
*Apple* got socked in all these cases (Microsoft and some third party
manufacteres are not the only ones....).  I still think that the Clasic II
ROMS aren't 32-bit clean.  I don't know about the si and LC II (but I seem
to remember that they are not...).  Anyone what to bet on the Centris
Models?  I just bet some dopehead patching the 030=FPU code made a silly
assumption of 040=FPU (after all, it's *built in* he said.  Hahahahaha).

Quote:>>     - I don't know about it's internal video, but the video on the LC, LC II
>>         si, ci is certainly a CPU drain if an external card is not bought.
>>         Believe me there is a world of difference.  (The Falcon might suffer
>>         from this as well, but all it will be compared to is the STE, TT,
>>         and the Mega, so it should come out ok.  Plus, the Falcon seems to
>>         be designed to keep video rolling quickly...but we'll see).

>The internal video of the LC and LC II (and LC III,too, for that matter)
>does not slow down the machine.  Your assertion is true for the IIsi and
>the IIci - they use a cycle-stealing DRAM-based frame buffer approach that
>negatively impacts CPU performance.  The LCs, however,  all have
>VRAM-based video hardware which does not exhibit this performance
>degradation.

Hmmm.  I had thought that the LC and si had essentially the same video, and
I knew it slowed down the machine, so I made the assumption for the LC
family. Guess I was wrong...sorry.  (My knowledge of Mac models that I
don't have to deal with *is* a bit sketchy).  One of my friends points out
that they think apple is desparate for realasing a confusing number of
machine models. I admit, you do have to pay attention to remember the
subtle differences between all these beast, and what corner Apple cut
to save money.

Oh gosh.  Here I go *spouting* off again!  Gonna know enough about Macs
to hate Apple just as much as Atari!!

By the way Atari is *not* by *any* means the king of "Real Soon Now".  I
think #1 goes to Microsoft and #2 goes to Apple!!!

Quote:>- Dale Adams

--


 
 
 

ADVOCACY: New Macs out - Falcon price obsolete?

Post by Dale Ada » Sun, 14 Feb 1993 07:29:01



Quote:LOVSTAD) writes:
>        Here are the updated prices at the GTEch computer store :

>         LCIII 4/80      $1250

>         Ce610 4/80      $1595  //(25MHz EC040)

>         Q700 4/0        $2095  //(25MHz 040 - the real thing...Two months
>                                   ago you had to shell out 4 big ones for
>                                   it...)

Two quick corrections here:  the Centris 610 uses a 68LC040 (the one
without the FPU) not a 68EC040 (the one without either an FPU or MMU); and
it runs at 20 MHz, not 25 MHz.

- Dale Adams

 
 
 

ADVOCACY: New Macs out - Falcon price obsolete?

Post by Dale Ada » Sun, 14 Feb 1993 07:30:59






> >For the most part, software compatibility problems are caused by software
> >vendors that don't follow the (by now, very well) established rules for
> >Mac programming.  True, occasionally Apple has done something wrong and
> >has broken some software.  But it's far and away more of a problem with
> >the 3rd party software folks.

> Huh...sorry but those machines broke *Apple* software.

Yeah.  That's why I said 'For the most part'.

- Dale Adams

 
 
 

ADVOCACY: New Macs out - Falcon price obsolete?

Post by JON ARVID LOVST » Sun, 14 Feb 1993 22:39:45



Quote:

>    [LC III specs deleted]

>Were were you.  I posted stuff about the LCIII over a week ago (with prices!).

They didn't make it *here* - I would have noticed in that case...

Quote:>It's not bad to not lower your prices when they aren't that bad to begin
>with.  *BUT* in light of the new Mac prices and the price of those
>486 behemoths (not to mention the slowly-being outdated 386's) the price
>of the Falcon is not looking so spiffy these days.

>Anyway, just for kicks, I'll pick on the LC III for awhile.

>    - Does't use standard SIMM slots (unless you own a NeXTStation Turbo)
>    This just means that every Tom* and Harry store won't have
>    the memory on Hand.  But, since most people seem to order
>    memory mail-order you might just have to look around awhile first.

Well, the FastRam cards for the TT will only use Toshiba or Samsung brand
SIMMS - I had to wait 2 MONTHS to get my 32MB RAM card working. And, the 32
Bit SIMMS are better that your plain vanilla SIMMS.

Quote:>    - Has there been a Mac (ever) that didn't break lots of software upon
>    release (like the ci,lc,si,cx,fx,quadra, etc)  Hmm maybe the
>    Quadra 950, Classic, Classic II, LC II didn't cause massive
>            incompatibility problems, at that point, I ceased to care.

Well, this have *NOT* happened on the Atari side has it? There were no
problems with the STE or the TT, noooooooooooooooo :-). Incompability
problems generally come from crappy programming.

Quote:>    - I'd pick on the lackluster number of slots, but in comparison w/ the
>    Falcon, this seems pointless.

Yup.

Quote:>    - I don't know about it's internal video, but the video on the LC, LC II
>    si, ci is certainly a CPU drain if an external card is not bought.
>    Believe me there is a world of difference.  (The Falcon might suffer
>    from this as well, but all it will be compared to is the STE, TT,
>    and the Mega, so it should come out ok.  Plus, the Falcon seems to
>    be designed to keep video rolling quickly...but we'll see).

All the LC models has their own VRAM like the Quadras. The IIsi is a drain
when it comes to video, but the LC's are in fact pretty OK!

Quote:>    - Apple has a little distribution problem right now.  It seems they
>    can't make computers fast enough.  Now, I *have* heard claims that
>    Mac stockpiled the new computers this time so there
>    wouldn't be a supply problem, but can you believe them.  Some
>    people are mad as they are just getting machines ordered 3-6 mths
>    ago!!!  You might be able to get a Falcon and an LC III at the
>    same time (but I wouldn't be on *either* Apple or Atari!!!).

Like Atari hasn't got production problems... BTW, as far as I've heard, the
LCIII is opne of the machines that has got highes priority in production.

Quote:>Gosh, I'm disappointed, I thought I could dig harder than that. Well, it
>does lack some things the falcon has.  The Falcon has CD-quality stereo
>sound input (LC III mono 8-bit 22 Khz sound input, but it *comes* with a
>microphone, crappy though it may be).  This might be a draw depending on
>what you want to use it for.  The mac sounds ok to me for sound-annotation.
>It's better than you get over the telephone, which seems to be OK for speech.
>(If asked I'll tell you about the Japaneese student who came into out lab
>and wanted to run Kanji Talk....) The best thing for the mac is that
>*lots* of programs have support for sound annotation on the Mac.  Again, it
>depends on what you want to do, and how high your standards are.  The little
>I saw of SAM on the Falcon convinced me it was usuable, whereas the Mac
>sound players freeze the system till the sound is done.  Some idiot I know
>put a 2 min sound as his beep, and the mac did one of those common BEEP BEEP
>BEEP things it always does and he was out of it for 6 minutes!  I think the
>state of the Mac-sound-thingy world is better now, but I really can't put
>all those sounds on the Macs here in the lab, so I haven't kept up.

The Falcon sound is of course vastly superior campared to that on the Macs.
Sound suppport is however pretty weak on the Atari s/w side. There seems to
be chaos when it comes to formats and productive use of it. Sound people
will get a lot out of the Falcon, no doubt about it. It might be Atari's own
fault that people don't use the features of the machines, though - the dev
manual for the TT didn't include a squat about the SCSI or the LAN port...

Quote:>Of course the Mac games situation is a little bleek to (but it gets better
>each month).  I hear there is a *great* new CD-ROM game.  But again, balance
>what you want.  Is there an Atari equivalent to Word + Excell (or even
>the two #3's int the word processing/spreadsheet world?)  I sure hope
>Atari Works Works!!!

I'm hoping that Atari Works will be good. I miss a decent spreadsheet.

Quote:>Hmmm.  I came out more "pro-Mac" than I thought I would.  Of course, *I*
>still haven't decieded what I'm going to do with my money yet. (And I no
>longer have a brand-new NeXTStation to shoot for!!!!)  Well, the educational
>prices for the LC III are do in tommorrow.  Think I'll stroll over and find
>out.  If ya'll really care, I'll post.  But I think we've had enough
>of this silly bickering.  If we didn't like Atari products we  wouldn't
>be here!!!

Yeah, that was my reaction as well. If I didn't care for Atari I wouldn't
have posted here at all. What I want is the guys at Atari to have a peek at
what's going on in the real world, what people are actually getting out
there. It seems like they don't know...

Nomad

Jon Lovstad                |   Sorry, but this part of my .sig file has been

                           |
SnailMail: Hjortsbergvn 7  |
N-1784 HALDEN, NORWAY      |   OOOPS! He took the other part as well...
Voice: +47 9 17 59 39      |

 
 
 

ADVOCACY: New Macs out - Falcon price obsolete?

Post by Marcelino Bernar » Sun, 14 Feb 1993 16:23:00



Quote:

>Anyway, just for kicks, I'll pick on the LC III for awhile.

>    - Has there been a Mac (ever) that didn't break lots of software upon
>    release (like the ci,lc,si,cx,fx,quadra, etc)  Hmm maybe the
>    Quadra 950, Classic, Classic II, LC II didn't cause massive
>            incompatibility problems, at that point, I ceased to care.

Of course, we don't have to worry about any software breaking on the
Falcon. :-)  Seriously, what do you mean by lots.  Would you care to give
a number to back this up?  Is it more than 50%?

Quote:>    - I don't know about it's internal video, but the video on the LC, LC II
>    si, ci is certainly a CPU drain if an external card is not bought.
>    Believe me there is a world of difference.  (The Falcon might suffer
>    from this as well, but all it will be compared to is the STE, TT,
>    and the Mega, so it should come out ok.  Plus, the Falcon seems to
>    be designed to keep video rolling quickly...but we'll see).

The LC III has a separate VRAM (512K standard, enough to support up to
256 colors o displays as large as 16") so there would be no memory
contention with the cpu unlike the ci,si...  Besides, don't forget
the LC III has a 32-bit bus versus 16 for the Falcon.

Quote:>    - Apple has a little distribution problem right now.  It seems they
>    can't make computers fast enough.  Now, I *have* heard claims that
>    Mac stockpiled the new computers this time so there
>    wouldn't be a supply problem, but can you believe them.  Some
>    people are mad as they are just getting machines ordered 3-6 mths
>    ago!!!  You might be able to get a Falcon and an LC III at the
>    same time (but I wouldn't be on *either* Apple or Atari!!!).

Come on, Apples' supply problem is trivial compared to Atari's.

Marcelino Bernardo

/* Views expressed are mine, not Exxon's */

 
 
 

ADVOCACY: New Macs out - Falcon price obsolete?

Post by ted croft bro » Mon, 15 Feb 1993 03:17:55




>>Anyway, just for kicks, I'll pick on the LC III for awhile.

>Of course, we don't have to worry about any software breaking on the
>Falcon. :-)  Seriously, what do you mean by lots.  Would you care to give
>a number to back this up?  Is it more than 50%?

Hmmm. I have to go dig up stuff on the ci.  The si and LC only broke soft-
ware that needed the FPU (I believe) but that covered all the major spread-
sheets including Excell.  The 040's on the other had were delayed about
6 month because Apple could not get Sys 7 to run correctly on them.  And
when they were released, several programs broke becasue the 040 cache is
different than the 030 cache (and they didn't know they would have to
trap for that).  I don't have the numbers but I remember the e*d
squeals of the first brave Quadra owners when major apps were found
to (finally) work with it.  Hell, Word 5.1 *still* has problems with the
Quadras (as it's not 32-bit clean, and why would you want a Quadra if it's
not running 32-bit?).  Some just posted the other day, that his DTP friend
wouldn't run his stuff on a Quadra as it was still to flaky (not a reliable
source/datapoint).

So, I think the ci/Quadra might have got a ~50% fail rate on "real"
programs.  But the si and LC hubbub was predicted and headed off as it
happened, so I don't really know.  But, I mentioned it so Atari people
don't feel left out.  Hey do you know how much trouble Multifinder caused?
It took *years* to staighten out.  MTOS here we come.....

If you *really* care, I could go out and find a list circa the time of
release for the si and Quadra and find out.  (ci is just *too* old).

Quote:

>Come on, Apples' supply problem is trivial compared to Atari's.

Agreed.  Again, I posted mainly from "Mac" mode, more how  a Mac user
would see the world.  But, rember, Atari is not the only company with
supply problems!  (Apple is just on a different scale, and soon NeXT
will have no supply!!!  Wahhhhhhhh!)

--


 
 
 

ADVOCACY: New Macs out - Falcon price obsolete?

Post by ted croft bro » Mon, 15 Feb 1993 03:03:23




>>        [LC III specs deleted]

>>Were were you.  I posted stuff about the LCIII over a week ago (with prices!).

>They didn't make it *here* - I would have noticed in that case...
>Jon Lovstad                |   Sorry, but this part of my .sig file has been


                      ^^^^^

Let me whole-heartedly apologize for my Amero-centrism. I think since
I quoted Amercan prices I limited it to the usa (sorry!).  I know that Macweek
has a time-lag to get to Europe too!!

Anyway, I alays here how good Atari/Amiga is doing in Europe, but I here
them from Atari/Amiga people (and sales figures along don't tell the whole
story).  I was wondering if you'd give us *your* insights on how well
Atari/Amiga/PC/Macs are doing in your area.  It just might be a little
more objective....

Someone told me that they just passed new laws stating that all monitors
must be adjustable and because of that Apple cannot sell the Classic II or
the Color Classic II in Europe.  Do you know anything about that?

--


 
 
 

ADVOCACY: New Macs out - Falcon price obsolete?

Post by JON ARVID LOVST » Mon, 15 Feb 1993 21:23:19



Quote:

>Let me whole-heartedly apologize for my Amero-centrism. I think since
>I quoted Amercan prices I limited it to the usa (sorry!).  I know that Macweek
>has a time-lag to get to Europe too!!

>Anyway, I alays here how good Atari/Amiga is doing in Europe, but I here
>them from Atari/Amiga people (and sales figures along don't tell the whole
>story).  I was wondering if you'd give us *your* insights on how well
>Atari/Amiga/PC/Macs are doing in your area.  It just might be a little
>more objective....

Well, Commodore Norway has cut down on their number of emplyees (who doesn't
in these times)  and Atari have closed their Scandinavian offices wile
searching for new distributors (I've heard they have one little distributor
serving the music market here and that another bigger deal may be secured
later). So, I don't think that neither the Amiga nor the Atari is doing so
well up here, but the Mac sure is alive and kicking. Sales are rising and
there are plenty of knowlegdeable dealers (my cousin is one of 'em - I get
Macs cheap, why do I still stick with Atari?? Guess I like 'em...).

Quote:>Someone told me that they just passed new laws stating that all monitors
>must be adjustable and because of that Apple cannot sell the Classic II or
>the Color Classic II in Europe.  Do you know anything about that?

The Color Classic will be sold here, I have that confirmed. I haven't heard
about that new law at all. Might be a new Swedish thing, though.

Nomad

Jon Lovstad                |   Sorry, but this part of my .sig file has been

                           |
SnailMail: Hjortsbergvn 7  |
N-1784 HALDEN, NORWAY      |   OOOPS! He took the other part as well...
Voice: +47 9 17 59 39      |

 
 
 

ADVOCACY: New Macs out - Falcon price obsolete?

Post by JON ARVID LOVST » Mon, 15 Feb 1993 21:28:55



Quote:>>Come on, Apples' supply problem is trivial compared to Atari's.

>Agreed.  Again, I posted mainly from "Mac" mode, more how  a Mac user
>would see the world.  But, rember, Atari is not the only company with
>supply problems!  (Apple is just on a different scale, and soon NeXT
>will have no supply!!!  Wahhhhhhhh!)

Ted, as it stands now, Canon will take about 100 of NeXT's employees and
make their own brand NeXTstation and the coming NeXT Riscstation. We'll
see if they make it.

Jon

Jon Lovstad                |   Sorry, but this part of my .sig file has been

                           |
SnailMail: Hjortsbergvn 7  |
N-1784 HALDEN, NORWAY      |   OOOPS! He took the other part as well...
Voice: +47 9 17 59 39      |

 
 
 

ADVOCACY: New Macs out - Falcon price obsolete?

Post by ted croft bro » Tue, 16 Feb 1993 03:45:06




>>Agreed.  Again, I posted mainly from "Mac" mode, more how  a Mac user
>>would see the world.  But, rember, Atari is not the only company with
>>supply problems!  (Apple is just on a different scale, and soon NeXT
>>will have no supply!!!  Wahhhhhhhh!)

>Ted, as it stands now, Canon will take about 100 of NeXT's employees and
>make their own brand NeXTstation and the coming NeXT Riscstation. We'll
>see if they make it.

Unfortuanately, it is not confirmed weather Cannon will continure to make
NeXT hardware.  I hope they will, and since Cannon recently entered the
compter market (selling '486's) I think they might want to make a workstation
and thus make the NeXT designed PowerPC workstation (able to run PowerOpen
Taligent and NeXTStep), and I have already heard rumors to this extent.

On the lighter side, NeXT said they had enough machines to fill orders
till May 25, but several large companies placed huge orders and they had
to reopen the factor and make more!!  A shame that all is going well, *after*
they get out of hardware.  I hope Cannon does take this as a signal to
contiue to produce black hardware...

>Jon Lovstad                |   Sorry, but this part of my .sig file has been


--


 
 
 

1. ADVOCACY: More prices, prices, prices

        Well, I just thought I would post some more prices. (I have the
flyer in my hands now instead of going from memory)

        These are from Cincinnati's Micro Center Store. (I won't post a
number, I don't want this to be to big of a advertisement :-)  Everything
doesn't include a monitor, unless specified)

Macintosh prices:

        Mac LC II 4/80  $1079 (with keyboard)
        Mac IIsi 5/80   $1449 (without Keyboard)

Intel Based: (MicroCenter didn't even advertise any 386 based systems
                (except notebook computers))

        Entry Level System:
                486sx, 1 meg, 40 meg hd, gray-scale monitor, dos 5 (oohh!)
                        $799

        Complete System:
                486sx, 2megs, 100 meg hd, vga monitor, Windows (ooohh!)
                        $999

        486dx system:
                486dx, 4 megs, 100 meg hd, svga monitor, Windows, mouse
                        $1499

        Accelerated Windows System:
                486sx, 4 megs, 100 meg hd, svga monitor, accelerated
                graphics card
                        $1399
                (for $200 more you can get this with a 486dx2 at 50Mhz)

I don't see with these prices that any company can ever successfully
release a "non-standard" computer and have it succeed. Unless... it was
backed by solid support and offered better value for the money.

(I just wanted to post solid numbers from something other than mail-order
places)

Later.......

------======={{{{{{{{((((((Ryan 'Gozar' Collins))))))))}}}}}}}}=======--------



                                                  \  R.COLLINS1 on GEnie
            ------======={{{{{{{{(((((())))))))}}}}}}}}=======-----  27-JAN-1993

2. Acorn User / Micro User mags.

3. ADVOCACY: Prices, Prices, and more Prices.....

4. Samba won't start

5. New Mac Prices tough on Falcon

6. Applying Security Policy

7. New Mac prices

8. Needed: Old Windows driver for HP DeskJet850 C

9. ADVOCACY: RE: 386SX prices

10. ADVOCACY: Re: 386SX prices

11. ADVOCACY: RE: 386SX prices

12. Falcon Audio Outs???