Atari 1040

Atari 1040

Post by Jessica » Fri, 25 Aug 2000 04:00:00



Ok, am I missing something here?  I was looking around on eBay came
across an Atari 1040 computer.  1040?  Huh?  I did not know such a thing
exisied.  Anybody have any clue?  Unfortunately, no photo was in the
listing but really, what is it?
Jessica
 
 
 

Atari 1040

Post by Liam Buse » Fri, 25 Aug 2000 04:00:00



> Ok, am I missing something here?  I was looking around on eBay came
> across an Atari 1040 computer.  1040?  Huh?  I did not know such a > thing exisied.  Anybody have any clue?  Unfortunately, no photo was in > the listing but really, what is it?
> Jessica

That's probably a 1040 ST. A 16bit computer made by Atari after the
Tramiels (spelling?) took over. It has nothing in common with the 8bit
computers other than the Atari badge.

Liam Busey

 
 
 

Atari 1040

Post by John K. Picke » Fri, 25 Aug 2000 04:00:00



> Ok, am I missing something here?  I was looking around on eBay came
> across an Atari 1040 computer.  1040?  Huh?  I did not know such a thing
> exisied.  Anybody have any clue?  Unfortunately, no photo was in the
> listing but really, what is it?
> Jessica

Atari 1040ST: 68000 microprocessor and 1mb RAM (easily upgradable to 4).

Definitely not 8-bit compatible but a pretty good computer.

jkp

 
 
 

Atari 1040

Post by Steve Breec » Sat, 26 Aug 2000 09:23:56


it is a 1040ST....it is a 16 bit machine, totally cool.... I have a 1040ST
and a 520ST.  Both have a built in 3.5"DD drive.  They are not compatible
with the 8 bit line....

Quote:> Ok, am I missing something here?  I was looking around on eBay came
> across an Atari 1040 computer.  1040?  Huh?  I did not know such a thing
> exisied.  Anybody have any clue?  Unfortunately, no photo was in the
> listing but really, what is it?
> Jessica

 
 
 

Atari 1040

Post by Jessica » Sat, 26 Aug 2000 09:39:01




> > Ok, am I missing something here?  I was looking around on eBay came
> > across an Atari 1040 computer.  1040?  Huh?  I did not know such a > thing exisied.  Anybody have any clue?  Unfortunately, no photo was in > the listing but really, what is it?
> > Jessica

> That's probably a 1040 ST. A 16bit computer made by Atari after the
> Tramiels (spelling?) took over. It has nothing in common with the 8bit
> computers other than the Atari badge.

Yea, thought about it and makes sence.  Unfortunately, the message was already posted :(.
Jessica
Quote:

> Liam Busey

 
 
 

Atari 1040

Post by Mindfiel » Sat, 26 Aug 2000 12:46:31


On Thu, 24 Aug 2000 23:41:17 GMT, Jessica C

lap as he typed:

Quote:>Ok, am I missing something here?  I was looking around on eBay came
>across an Atari 1040 computer.  1040?  Huh?  I did not know such a thing
>exisied.  Anybody have any clue?  Unfortunately, no photo was in the
>listing but really, what is it?
>Jessica

1040 = 1040ST.  The ST series were the next-generation 16-bit machines
Atari came out with.  In fact, they came out with a whole slew.  All
Atari STs were a quantum leap over the 8-bits due to having a 16-bit,
8MHz (faster in later models) Morotola 68000 processor, built-in MIDI
ports, expansion/cartrige port, etc.  Curiously, the sound chip (a
Yamaha YM-2149) wasn't quite as good as the 8-bit's, having only 3
sound channels.  It did do pretty good digital sound, though.  STs
also featured more function keys (10), a full-stroke keyboard with
separate numeric keypad, arrow keys, and special function keys like
HELP and UNDO, and looked much like a PC keyboard.  There was a whole
breed of Atari computers after the 8-bit.  Graphics game in three
flavours: 320x200 in 16 colours (low res), 640x200 in 4 colours, or
640x400 in 2 colours (monochrome, required a mono monitor)  Basically,
the ST like looked like the XE's big brother.  The short version goes
a little like this:

520ST
  - The first real release of the ST.  Half a meg of RAM.
1040ST
  - The 520's big brother; 1 meg of RAM, internal 720k 3.5" drive.
520STFM
  - Basically a 1040ST with half the RAM.  Some models had 1 meg.
    The main reason for this model was the RF port for connecting to a
    television set (hence the "FM" - fixed modulation)
1040STFM
  - 1 meg, RF port.
Mega ST-1
  - A 1040ST in a retooled desktop-PC-style case, detatchable
    keyboard, new TOS OS and Blitter chip for fast graphics handling.
    Limited release, replaced by the Mega ST-2.
Mega ST-2
  - Like the Mega ST-1 with 2 megs of RAM.
Mega ST-4
  - Ditto, 4 megs of RAM (the most a stock ST can have without a new
    MMU)
1040STE
  - The next gen Atari ST; used SIMM RAM (like PCs) expandable to 4
    megs, enhanced colour palette (4096 colours), hardware scrolling,
    new TOS OS (1.62), stereo sound, and other niceties.  An enhanced
    monitor (the SC-1425 - a 14" model, 2" larger than the ST's
    SC-1224 and SM-125) was also released to accompany it.
Mega STE
  - New off-white desktop case design.  Came in 2 or 4 meg flavours.
    New TOS version (2.0)
TT-030
  - The successor to the ST/e line.  A true 32-bit 68030 processor
    running at 16MHz, featuring much higher resolutions, more colours
    on-screen, an optional Motorola 68881 math coprocessor, and all
    sorts of other goodies that made this machine a prized posession
    for the desktop publishing crowd.  Never took off for * due
    both to its sticker price, and some incompatibilities in its new
    TOS version (3.5).
Falcon-030
  - The REAL successor to the ST/e line.  This beast had it all:
    Motorola 68030 processor running at 16MHz, Motorola
    68001 digital signal processor (DSP -- the same one eventually
    used in the Atari Jaguar) running at 32Mhz, vastly enhanced
    graphics chip that was fully programmable to allow the creation of
    any graphics mode you had RAM enough to display, 65,565 colours
    on-screen at once out of a palette of 16.7 million, sound was
    handled by the DSP and the number of channels was limited only by
    your CPU's power and RAM, a multitasking operating system (dubbed
    MultiTOS, a.k.a. TOS 4.0) up to 16 megs of RAM, and all sorts of
    other goodies.  I had the chance to spend some quality time with
    one of these while I was writing for the local Atari magazine,
    Current Notes, and it was s-w-e-e-t.  My only gripe was that they
    used the old 1040ST case and keyboard, but in its defense, it was
    dark gray with charcoal gray keys.  It was also quite
    backward-compatible with well-behaved ST apps.

Fringe, odd, and third party models and vapourware:

130ST
  - 128k RAM, never released due to insufficient RAM to
    do anything useful.
260ST
  - 256k RAM, short release in Europe before being discontinued
    for the same reason the 130ST was.
SC-2000 monitor
  - A strange little 12" beast with a built-in single-sided 360k
    floppy drive which saw limited release.
STacy
  - A portable (or rather, luggable -- it was heavy!) 1040ST computer.
    This became a sligtly popular machine for musicians due to the
    fact that it could easily be taken on the road and used at
    concerts to control MIDI devices.  Madonna used two of these
    during her Girlie Show tour.  (Or was it the Immaculate tour?)  It
    was available in 1, 2 and 4 meg varieties.
ST-Book
  - A lighter STacy that saw a VERY limited release.  This is a rare
    beast indeed.
Falcon-040
  - A third party upgrade to the Falcon that increased the CPU
    to a Motorola 68040 running at 32 or 48MHz.
Pandora
  - A third party Falcon-compatible running on a 68060
ABAQ (a.k.a. Atari-Transputer Workstation, or ATW)
  - Probably the strangest of the strange in the Atari world
    (next to the laughable "Mind-Link" 2600 controller) is
    this beast.  The ATW was an extensible computer,
    which allowed you to run on up to 4 "Farm Cards" --
    basically, modular motherboards containing all the
    necessary computer circutry.  These could be chained
    together for multi-processor operation, resulting in
    incredibly fast processing power.  They ran on a variation
    of the Pink OS operating system.  Very few of these were
    made, and I only ever knew one person who owned one.
    On the rarity scale, this would fall into the "Holy Grail"
    category.  They were not compatible with any existing
    Atari platform.
Atari PCs
  - Atari also made a range of 8088-based PC compatibles
    which flopped big time.  These are pretty rare machines,
    too -- but they were so bad, they sort of fall into the
    "Who Cares?" category.

I know I've forgotten at least one Falcon-compatible whose name
escapes me, and probably a few others, but that's the "short" list of
Atari computers after the 8-bit.

----
Mindfield

"Nothing works contrary to nature, only to what we know of it." -Scully

Remove the badgers before E-Mailing.

 
 
 

Atari 1040

Post by Richard Kilpatric » Sat, 26 Aug 2000 04:00:00




Quote:>520ST
>  - The first real release of the ST.  Half a meg of RAM.

External floppy. 520ST+ = 1Mb RAM. External PSU ;) Atari 520STm - this
model, with the external floppy and PSU, but a TV Modulator for use,
well, on a TV...

Quote:>1040ST
>  - The 520's big brother; 1 meg of RAM, internal 720k 3.5" drive.

1040STf = Built in floppy...

Quote:>520STFM
>  - Basically a 1040ST with half the RAM.  Some models had 1 meg.
>    The main reason for this model was the RF port for connecting to a
>    television set (hence the "FM" - fixed modulation)

Atari STFM = Atari Six*/Thirtytwo, Floppy, Modulator ;)

Quote:>130ST
>  - 128k RAM, never released due to insufficient RAM to
>    do anything useful.

Insufficient RAM to load the OS ;) The OS on the original 520, 260ST was
loaded from Floppy, with ROM being an 8K bootstrap only. TOS/GEM takes
up 192K...

Richard, picking holes :)
--
           Richard Kilpatrick                         |\      _,,,---,,_
 Atari XL/XE, Pioneer CLD-D925, retrotech             /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,
 E-Mail: Richard<at>lovecraft.demon.co.uk            |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'::.
http://www.veryComputer.com/;       '----''(_/--'  `-'\_)Morticia

 
 
 

Atari 1040

Post by Mindfiel » Sat, 26 Aug 2000 04:00:00


On Fri, 25 Aug 2000 09:18:03 +0100, Richard Kilpatrick

lap as he typed:



>>520ST
>>  - The first real release of the ST.  Half a meg of RAM.

>External floppy. 520ST+ = 1Mb RAM. External PSU ;) Atari 520STm - this
>model, with the external floppy and PSU, but a TV Modulator for use,
>well, on a TV...

I'd forgotten about the STM.  I don't think that had a very wide (or
long-lived) release.

Quote:

>>1040ST
>>  - The 520's big brother; 1 meg of RAM, internal 720k 3.5" drive.

>1040STf = Built in floppy...

Ah, right ... the 1040 without the modulator.  I think this one stayed
around longer than the 520STM.

Quote:>Atari STFM = Atari Six*/Thirtytwo, Floppy, Modulator ;)

Er, yeah... I meant to say that.  (Fixed, floppy, it's a common
mistake, it is!)

Quote:>>130ST
>>  - 128k RAM, never released due to insufficient RAM to
>>    do anything useful.

>Insufficient RAM to load the OS ;) The OS on the original 520, 260ST was
>loaded from Floppy, with ROM being an 8K bootstrap only. TOS/GEM takes
>up 192K...

It sort of made you wonder what the techs at Atari were thinking at
the time.  :-)  Even the 260ST left only 68k of RAM to play with.
Enough to load one desk accessory!

Quote:

>Richard, picking holes :)

----
Mindfield

"Nothing works contrary to nature, only to what we know of it." -Scully

Remove the badgers before E-Mailing.

 
 
 

Atari 1040

Post by carmel_andr.. » Sun, 27 Aug 2000 04:00:00


Yo Mindfield, Hows that Atari thang*

Anyway re: atari 1040, I never had one but I did have a couple 520stfm's
and a 4 meg 520 ste which i still have sitting next to me AMD k62-400
win98 pc (pc's being a heap o' shit anyway)

I remember something about the Atari Panther (the next stage after the
vcs/7800), was that the ST games jobbie that Atari were hoping to bring
out, or was the panther a junior version jaguar (as I had seen
screenshots of the panther with parts of tempest2000 in development in a
UK atari mag years ago)

Also whilst we are on the subject, I remember going to Atari shows in
Ally Pally (Alexander Palace-ex BBC) early 87 and late 86 and I remember
seeing something, which I didint see again untill I received me Best
Electronics Catalog from Mr Koda Himself when he was exhibiting at one
of the early computer shopper shows (whatever happened to them) as his
catalog had a piccy of the said item, namely Atari's proposed CD rom
hardware called CDAR- cant remember the number part, But I definately
remember seeing it at one of the Atari shows at Ally Pally

Ironic that although Tramiel wasn't interested in taking Atari forward
(in a business and commercial sense) At least Atari showed that they
were as Inovative and Ahead of the game as ever, no matter how much
tramiel/gleadow was trying to destroy the company (Warners would have
been better of selling out to Nintendo or Sony etc...)

And lastly the St certainly wasn't ATARI 8bit's big brother, as there's
no connection bettween the two apart from the badge
The only Big Bro's that the ATARI 8bit had, was the thang that became
the AMIGA, which at the end of the day was a technically better machine
then the St

Happy Atari'ng

carmel A

Sent via Deja.com http://www.veryComputer.com/
Before you buy.

 
 
 

Atari 1040

Post by Mindfiel » Sun, 27 Aug 2000 04:00:00



an embarassing wet spot in his lap as he typed:

Quote:>Yo Mindfield, Hows that Atari thang*

>Anyway re: atari 1040, I never had one but I did have a couple 520stfm's
>and a 4 meg 520 ste which i still have sitting next to me AMD k62-400
>win98 pc (pc's being a heap o' shit anyway)

I wish I still had my Mega ST4.  That was the last Atari machine I
ever owned, even though the keyboard was dying pretty badly.

Quote:>I remember something about the Atari Panther (the next stage after the
>vcs/7800), was that the ST games jobbie that Atari were hoping to bring
>out, or was the panther a junior version jaguar (as I had seen
>screenshots of the panther with parts of tempest2000 in development in a
>UK atari mag years ago)

Prior to the Jaguar (ca. 1992 or so), Atari was working on a
next-generation 32-bit * console, at the time code-named Panther.
At the same time, a UK-based company known as Flair had been
developing a 64-bit * console, but did not have the funds or
resources to market it.  They had approached a few large companies to
adopt it and market it, but in the end, Atari was the one that got the
technology, and it eventually became known as the Jaguar (which Atari
later tried to change to Jaguar-64 after Nintendo's announcement of
their 64-bit console.  Few people picked up on the "64" appendage,
however)  Atari scrapped the Panther project, which was still in the
design stage, in favour of the Jag.

Quote:>Also whilst we are on the subject, I remember going to Atari shows in
>Ally Pally (Alexander Palace-ex BBC) early 87 and late 86 and I remember
>seeing something, which I didint see again untill I received me Best
>Electronics Catalog from Mr Koda Himself when he was exhibiting at one
>of the early computer shopper shows (whatever happened to them) as his
>catalog had a piccy of the said item, namely Atari's proposed CD rom
>hardware called CDAR- cant remember the number part, But I definately
>remember seeing it at one of the Atari shows at Ally Pally

Yep.  In fact, the CDAR was released in short supply around 1987-88.
I knew only one person who owned one -- he'd picked it up second hand
from a flea market or something.  Anyway, it was a plain ol' single
speed CD-ROM drive that read standard ISO-9660 format CD-ROMs.  I
don't recall if it was able to play redbook audio, though.  In any
event, it was a pretty avant-garde move on Atari's part, since at the
time, CD-ROMs were still a fairly new concept.  Unfortunately, it was
_too_ avant-garde, since the sticker price was pretty high, and there
were no CD-ROMs for the Atari available.  I don't think Atari made any
deals with software houses to develop CD-ROM titles for the Atari,
either -- hence its inevitable and quick demise.

Quote:>Ironic that although Tramiel wasn't interested in taking Atari forward
>(in a business and commercial sense) At least Atari showed that they
>were as Inovative and Ahead of the game as ever, no matter how much
>tramiel/gleadow was trying to destroy the company (Warners would have
>been better of selling out to Nintendo or Sony etc...)

It's not that they weren't interested in forwarding Atari in a
business sense, it's that Atari just didn't have the wearwithall to
properly market their products.  After the great video game crash of
1984 and Time-Warner's sale of Atari to Jack Tramiel, Atari's liquid
assets weren't worth a whole lot (as compared to pre-crash Atari).
Jack had a limited amount of resources to play with, and most of that
was sunk into R&D for new products.  That didn't leave much for
advertising.  When Atari re-released the 2600 (renamed Atari 2600 Jr.)
I do remember seeing "The Fun is Back" commercials (with that sad
little "The 2600 from A-tar-i" rap) and, later, a few commercials for
their "Atari Shatters the Myth" campaign to push the ST line.  That's
the most advertising I'd ever seen them do.  After that, I saw a grand
total of 1 commercial for the Lynx 2-3 times on TV. (It was actually
pretty good, too...) Heck, when Atari released the Jaguar, they
allocated US $20 million on advertising.  This is peanuts in the
cutthroat world of video games; by comparison, Sony and Nintendo were
spending hundreds of millions on advertising at the same time, so it's
no wonder Atari's commercials were lost in the din.  I only ever saw
one commerical for the Jag; it was an adverti*t for Alien vs.
Predator, and I saw it twice.  

Quote:>And lastly the St certainly wasn't ATARI 8bit's big brother, as there's
>no connection bettween the two apart from the badge
>The only Big Bro's that the ATARI 8bit had, was the thang that became
>the AMIGA, which at the end of the day was a technically better machine
>then the St

True, but I don't really consider it in that light.  Amiga (who
started out life as 2600 game developers) had first approached Atari
to adopt their Amiga computer technology, but Atari (stupidly) turned
it down.  Then they went to Commodore, and the rest is history.  I
consider the ST the 8-bit's big brother simply because it was
developed and designed by Atari and looked like suped up XE machines.
On the other hand, the Commodore wasn't developed by Atari -- it
wasn't even developed by Commodore; they just marketed it.  It _was_
technologically superior to the ST, though; DMA sound, 4096 colours,
multitasking OS -- all stuff the ST should of had from the get go, but
didn't.

However, I'd rather use an ST with NeoDesk than an Amiga with
Workbench.  :-)

Quote:

>Happy Atari'ng

>carmel A

>Sent via Deja.com http://www.veryComputer.com/
>Before you buy.

----
Mindfield

"Nothing works contrary to nature, only to what we know of it." -Scully

Remove the badgers before E-Mailing.

 
 
 

Atari 1040

Post by carmel_andr.. » Mon, 28 Aug 2000 09:11:46


Yo! Mindfield, Still Hacking away on the ol' Atari, keep 'em humming,
thats what I say

Anyway re:atari 1040, and more specifically the Amiga issue

Firstly the Original Amiga company was financed/Funded by Atari, founded
by ex Atari 8bit and vcs hardware engineers, namely Decuir, Miner, RJ
Mical (Lynx), Morse and Neubauer (star raiders/pokey et al) and lastly
Steve Meyer or Mayer (good buddy of NB),and if you visit the Atari
historical soc. internet site, you'll see that Atari already had there

they had exclusive rights to producing Atari 8 versions of what became
the Amiga h/w, I believe the a7800 h/w was destined to go the same way,
ie as new h/w chip set for the A8

Also re the CDAR, why is it that you americans always seem to be able to
purchase the sort of Atari kit that us Europeans can only dream about

I suppose that the CDAR is now about as collectable as KC muchkin, an
Original (not hacked/pirated) copy of the unreleased Behind jaggi
lines/last star fighter, The 65xeme (or Xeem), XEportable, the 1200
(pal) or anything like the 1400/1450 series... Or am I just jealous of
you Yanks

Also, while wer'e on the subject, I'm suprised that you, an american
stuck up for the tramiels in the fashion that you did in your last
posting

I say that because even Sam T. himself admitted in an interview to Next
generation mag (the US version of UK's Edge mag.) accepted that Time
Warner/Warner Communications had been an Investment Partner in Atari
since Warners Sell out in 84

And looking at it logically since warners still owned a quarter of Atari
corp untill Tramiels reverse merger with JTS, their was nothing to stop
Atari asking Warners to contribute to the Advertising/Marketing for
Atari, since Warners still owmed part of the company and the technology,
it would have being in their interest to

Warners were good at selling Atari, in the numbers they did, which is
ironic since the mgmt at the time had no product knowledge, and didn't
understand fully the technology they were selling

The tramiels on the other hand had the product and technical knowledge
and skills that could blow anyone away, but severly lacked the
neccessary spunk when it came to selling and marketing

if anyone in 20 years time was to write a brief synopsis, of Atari
history from Warners upto JTS , they I guess would arrive at the same
conclusion as I have, namely Atari suffered because of it's management,
and not inspite of it... Essentially Atari invested in the wrong type of
management... unless you'd beg to differ

End of pitch

Carmel A

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

 
 
 

Atari 1040

Post by Mindfiel » Mon, 28 Aug 2000 11:51:14



an embarassing wet spot in his lap as he typed:

>Firstly the Original Amiga company was financed/Funded by Atari, founded
>by ex Atari 8bit and vcs hardware engineers, namely Decuir, Miner, RJ
>Mical (Lynx), Morse and Neubauer (star raiders/pokey et al) and lastly
>Steve Meyer or Mayer (good buddy of NB),and if you visit the Atari
>historical soc. internet site, you'll see that Atari already had there

>they had exclusive rights to producing Atari 8 versions of what became
>the Amiga h/w, I believe the a7800 h/w was destined to go the same way,
>ie as new h/w chip set for the A8

Well, The History of the Personal Microcomputer, Home Game Console and
Arcade Machine page (http://home.tampabay.rr.com/jguru/history.html)
told a rather different story:

"Also in 1984, a company started by some doctors from Florida was
looking for someone who would take care of their baby, the Amiga
Lorraine.  They offered the Amiga to Jack Tramiel of Atari, but when
they found out that Jack is only interested in the Amiga's technology
and not the unit as a whole, the doctors decide to sell the Amiga
concept to Commodore instead, thus changing the Amiga Lorraine into
the Commodore Amiga."

Quote:>Also re the CDAR, why is it that you americans always seem to be able to
>purchase the sort of Atari kit that us Europeans can only dream about

>I suppose that the CDAR is now about as collectable as KC muchkin, an
>Original (not hacked/pirated) copy of the unreleased Behind jaggi
>lines/last star fighter, The 65xeme (or Xeem), XEportable, the 1200
>(pal) or anything like the 1400/1450 series... Or am I just jealous of
>you Yanks

LOL.  Actually, I'm a Canadian, if that makes any difference.
Nevertheless, it certainly is a collectable.  They didn't make very
many of them before pulling the plug.  I'd imagine that if you can
find one at all, you'd be very lucky to do so, as they're probably
worth a handsome sum to an Atari collector.  The proposed 65XE models
you refer to are the 65XEM and the 65XEP.  The XEM was basically a
stock 65XE that was to have the "AMY" synthesizer chip, while the
65XEP was supposed to be a portable system with a built-in 5" green
monochrome monitor.  Neither model ever came to light with the
exception of prototypes being displayed at the 1985 Consumer
Electronics Show.

Quote:>Also, while wer'e on the subject, I'm suprised that you, an american
>stuck up for the tramiels in the fashion that you did in your last
>posting

Oh, don't mistake my excuses for sticking up for them; the Tramiels
bumbled Atari straight to the grave, there's no doubt about it.  But
the blame is not _entirely_ theirs.  Atari never enjoyed the liquidity
that they had once enjoyed during the 2600's heyday, and large scale
commercial advertising campaigns were quite beyond their capabilities.
All they could muster were small campaigns that generally never lasted
very long, and only tended to cover major networks.  I'm sure they
could have afforded to put a _little_ more into those campaigns --
either to increase their longevity or widen their coverage --
especially in light of the many failed projects that came out of their
R&D department.  But unfortunately there was a lot of waste in that
area -- from the 65XEM/XEP models, the laughable 130ST and 260ST
attempts, the never-released 8-bit Atari monitor (XC1411), the 3.5"
8-bit drive (XF351), the 1400XL/XLD models, and many other
flops/vapourware.  This costed them lots of money and in the end was a
small part of what helped to contribute to their untimely demise.

Quote:>I say that because even Sam T. himself admitted in an interview to Next
>generation mag (the US version of UK's Edge mag.) accepted that Time
>Warner/Warner Communications had been an Investment Partner in Atari
>since Warners Sell out in 84

>And looking at it logically since warners still owned a quarter of Atari
>corp untill Tramiels reverse merger with JTS, their was nothing to stop
>Atari asking Warners to contribute to the Advertising/Marketing for
>Atari, since Warners still owmed part of the company and the technology,
>it would have being in their interest to

>Warners were good at selling Atari, in the numbers they did, which is
>ironic since the mgmt at the time had no product knowledge, and didn't
>understand fully the technology they were selling

While it's true that the Tramiels probably could have looked to
Warner, it seems rather unlikely that Warner would have invested that
much into it.  Warner knew Atari was a sinking ship during the crash
of '84, which is why they dumped all but 25% of it.  Atari recovered
only marginally from that crash, staying alive, and certainly still
having the brilliant engineers that they always had, being the first
to come out with a lot of things the world now takes for granted
(palm-sized PCs, handheld portable game systems, standard MIDI ports
-- which still don't come standard with any home computer -- not to
mention patents innumerable that's still used in modern systems and
games) but they just didn't have the ability to survive in the long
run because they just didn't have the money to really push the
technology.

It's an unfortunate truism that the innovators are rarely the ones
that enjoy the success of their labours.

Quote:>The tramiels on the other hand had the product and technical knowledge
>and skills that could blow anyone away, but severly lacked the
>neccessary spunk when it came to selling and marketing

Quite true.  The Tramiels never had balls.  They were pretty good at
suing -- and winning -- on the basis of patent infringements, though.
:-)  Hell, if it wasn't for the Sega suit in 1994, Atari probably
wouldn't have even gotten as far as they did with the Jaguar.  The
settlement of that case gave them their advertising money with about
$30 million to spare to make more units.

Quote:>if anyone in 20 years time was to write a brief synopsis, of Atari
>history from Warners upto JTS , they I guess would arrive at the same
>conclusion as I have, namely Atari suffered because of it's management,
>and not inspite of it... Essentially Atari invested in the wrong type of
>management... unless you'd beg to differ

Actually, that Atari lasted as long as it did with the Tramiels at the
helm is a wonder in itself.   I think the most serious move was Jack
handing the company over to his three sons.  Jack himself made
mistakes, but he was a much better CEO than his sons, and had plenty
of experience at it with CBM.  His sons on the other hand were just
idiots.

Quote:

>End of pitch

>Carmel A

>Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
>Before you buy.

----
Mindfield

"Nothing works contrary to nature, only to what we know of it." -Scully

Remove the badgers before E-Mailing.

 
 
 

Atari 1040

Post by Rick Cortes » Mon, 28 Aug 2000 04:00:00




> an embarassing wet spot in his lap as he typed:

> >Firstly the Original Amiga company was financed/Funded by Atari, founded
> >by ex Atari 8bit and vcs hardware engineers, namely Decuir, Miner, RJ
> >Mical (Lynx), Morse and Neubauer (star raiders/pokey et al) and lastly
> >Steve Meyer or Mayer (good buddy of NB),and if you visit the Atari
> >historical soc. internet site, you'll see that Atari already had there

> >they had exclusive rights to producing Atari 8 versions of what became
> >the Amiga h/w, I believe the a7800 h/w was destined to go the same way,
> >ie as new h/w chip set for the A8

> Well, The History of the Personal Microcomputer, Home Game Console and
> Arcade Machine page (http://www.veryComputer.com/)
> told a rather different story:

> "Also in 1984, a company started by some doctors from Florida was
> looking for someone who would take care of their baby, the Amiga
> Lorraine.  They offered the Amiga to Jack Tramiel of Atari, but when
> they found out that Jack is only interested in the Amiga's technology
> and not the unit as a whole, the doctors decide to sell the Amiga
> concept to Commodore instead, thus changing the Amiga Lorraine into
> the Commodore Amiga."

First version is the more correct one. I've run into Miner in California and
he used to have a BBS local to the San Francisco Area <San Mateo?>.

Quote:> Actually, that Atari lasted as long as it did with the Tramiels at the
> helm is a wonder in itself.   I think the most serious move was Jack
> handing the company over to his three sons.  Jack himself made
> mistakes, but he was a much better CEO than his sons, and had plenty
> of experience at it with CBM.  His sons on the other hand were just
> idiots.

IMO: There were several huge mistakes made with their technology and
employees. They basically had bullet proof sound, keyboard, and video
technology in Pokey, Antic, GTIA. As soon as they saw the emerging PC game
market and the success of things like Adlib sound card, they should have
moved into the PC market with their LSI chips and technology. Instead we
have Creative Labs and 3dfx with patch after patch to their drivers and
pretty crappy hardware. I would guess there are some good companies that
came out of the lack of an Atari presence: Yamaha used to be known as a
motorcycle company, but it seems like more people know them from their sound
and video chips now.

But I wouldn't call the Tramiels idiots any more so then Adam Osborne or
Eagle Computers or anyone of a 100 other companies that are no more,
everyone got *led in the rush.

But then I believe almost everyone including the successes are no better
then average. It just happens that some are luckier then others and happened
to blunder into the right market. There are a few geniuses around, it just
seems like very few of them are CEOs.

 
 
 

Atari 1040

Post by Jessica » Mon, 28 Aug 2000 04:00:00


Quote:> But I wouldn't call the Tramiels idiots any more so then Adam Osborne or
> Eagle Computers or anyone of a 100 other companies that are no more,
> everyone got *led in the rush.

> But then I believe almost everyone including the successes are no better
> then average. It just happens that some are luckier then others and happened
> to blunder into the right market. There are a few geniuses around, it just
> seems like very few of them are CEOs.

Ingenious devleopers, bad marketers... seems as though time proves nothing, if
it does, then we forget about it.

Jess

 
 
 

Atari 1040

Post by Mindfiel » Mon, 28 Aug 2000 04:00:00


On Sun, 27 Aug 2000 04:51:18 -0700, "Rick Cortese"

he typed:

Quote:>First version is the more correct one. I've run into Miner in California and
>he used to have a BBS local to the San Francisco Area <San Mateo?>.

I'll make a note of that... maybe I should pass it along to the
webmaster of that site.

Quote:>IMO: There were several huge mistakes made with their technology and
>employees. They basically had bullet proof sound, keyboard, and video
>technology in Pokey, Antic, GTIA. As soon as they saw the emerging PC game
>market and the success of things like Adlib sound card, they should have
>moved into the PC market with their LSI chips and technology. Instead we
>have Creative Labs and 3dfx with patch after patch to their drivers and
>pretty crappy hardware.

I'm not sure if Atari would have fared any better as third party PC
hardware developers.  Atari's foray into the PC world with full
systems didn't go very well, even when they had a system that had the
most features and capabilities for its price range in the Atari PC-1.
Of course, they had to compete with grey market, cheaply-made PC
clones, and so brought out the PC-5 as an answer to that, but they
still flopped.  I can't really see Atari as an OEM for PC cards being
much more successful.  Besides, Atari stopped making their own sound
chips after the 8-bit.  (The ST uses the Yamaha YM-2149, which is
essentially Yamaha's version of the AY-3-8912 chip used in the
Sinclair Spectrum 128.  The Falcon and Jaguar both use a Motorola
DSP68001 for sound)

Quote:> I would guess there are some good companies that
>came out of the lack of an Atari presence: Yamaha used to be known as a
>motorcycle company, but it seems like more people know them from their sound
>and video chips now.

Actually, Yamaha's been around for a very long time making things
other than motorcycles, first making pianos, then moving on to
synthesizers, guitars, amplifiers, and all sorts of other musical
instruments and accessories.  The Yamaha DX-7 digital synth came out
in the early 80s, practically taking over where the popular Fairlight,
Emu and Moog analog synths left off.  It was one of the first synths
to include a built-in sequencer, which analog synths didn't have at
the time.

Quote:>But I wouldn't call the Tramiels idiots any more so then Adam Osborne or
>Eagle Computers or anyone of a 100 other companies that are no more,
>everyone got *led in the rush.

Oh, I'm not saying they were the worst offenders of mismanagement --
there are countless other flops out there that could be laid squarely
at the feet of their marketers and CEOs, but the Tramiels certainly
made their share, and some were very unfortunate.  I do take some
small consolation in the fact that regardless of the Tramiels,
Microsoft would have quashed any competition in the long run anyway,
with its forceful entry into the personal GUI computing foray.  They
didn't so much standardize the industry as gave people little other
choice, but they nevertheless made themselves the foremost platform on
the planet, and few companies could stand up to that.  Even Apple has
only barely survived.

Quote:>But then I believe almost everyone including the successes are no better
>then average. It just happens that some are luckier then others and happened
>to blunder into the right market. There are a few geniuses around, it just
>seems like very few of them are CEOs.

Atari had one major fault, if you could consider it such: They were
too ahead of their time.  The release of the CDAR years before CD-ROMs
had become any kind of standard meant death for that machine.  The
handheld computing platform was something else again that the world
wasn't quite ready for when they released the Portfolio.  Even the
Lynx was a little too ahead of its time.  And looking at some of
Atari's concept sketches, we can even see the Atari Databook idea that
looks remarkably like what eventually became the Tandy-Radio Shack
Model 100.  But a little additional consolation can probably be gained
from the knowledge that the video game industry isn't the only thing
Atari had a major hand in creating; palmtop computing, colour handheld
*, even the popularity of MIDI, can all be attributed to Atari's
forward thinking.

----
Mindfield

"Nothing works contrary to nature, only to what we know of it." -Scully

Remove the badgers before E-Mailing.

 
 
 

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I would like to convert it to 115 volts.

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