Installing "TOS image" files

Installing "TOS image" files

Post by Matthias Arn » Tue, 12 Mar 2002 00:27:26



>I'd like to know more about installing TOS 2.06 from so called
>"TOS image files". Apart from the (more or less legal) TOS image files,
>what else is needed, and how is it done?
>I'm guessing some sort of "TOS loader" in the AUTO folder, which finds
>the TOS image file and loads it into memory.

Yes, there's one on the net available. But I neitehr tried it nor do I
remember how it was called.

Quote:

>By the way, how much memory does something like this steal?

Any TOS will steal as much RAM as itself is big and some plus for screen and
disk handling.

Quote:>I've been under the impression that even a standard ST/F/M/E will read
>TOS from the ROM chips, then load it into RAM (simply because ROM is too
>slow to be efficient) -is this correct?

Nope, all ST read the TOS directly from the ROMs. You have always all memory
(without some space for TOS informations and the screen) available.
TOS only gets loaded into RAM if you use a TOS on disk like the first ones or a
boot loader.

Matthias
--


    ICQ: 40358321
    PGP-Key: http://home.tu-clausthal.de/~ifmar/pubkey.asc

 
 
 

Installing "TOS image" files

Post by Edward S. Baiz J » Tue, 12 Mar 2002 06:04:00



Quote:>I'd like to know more about installing TOS 2.06 from so called
>"TOS image files". Apart from the (more or less legal) TOS image files,
>what else is needed, and how is it done?
>I'm guessing some sort of "TOS loader" in the AUTO folder, which finds
>the TOS image file and loads it into memory.

>By the way, how much memory does something like this steal?
>I've been under the impression that even a standard ST/F/M/E will read
>TOS from the ROM chips, then load it into RAM (simply because ROM is too
>slow to be efficient) -is this correct?

Hello,

Well I have a TOS image file of TOS 1.0. It exists by itself on a disk
and not in any folder. It loads automatically when the computer boots
with the the disk in it's drive.

Edward S. Baiz Jr.
    (Gamer)  
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Installing "TOS image" files

Post by Ludwig Maetzk » Wed, 13 Mar 2002 01:02:56


Hello Hallvard,

Quote:> It is possible, though, to use other TOS versions without unscrewing
> your Atari, by loading software images of TOS (tos.img) during boot
> time. You need a program for this in the AUTO folder, like tosboot.prg.
> The exception that proves the rule and doesn't need any other programs,
> is a version of TOS 3.01 called american.prg that will run directly from
> the AUTO folder. Besides the tosboot program, you need the software
> image of your desired TOS version: these images are lying around on the
> internet, for example try Little Green Desktop.
> the question of course is..... where do I find "TOSBOOT.PRG"?

I don't know a TOSBOOT.PRG. Of course it would be useful to load a TOS
Image from a hard disk and not only from a certain boot disk. If you are
pleased with a boot disk, make one this way:
1. You ask Edward S. Baiz who answered in this thread before to send the
boot sector file of his disk to you. Perhaps he can clip the boot secor
with a disk utility.
2. Format a disk with the *same* parameters as Edward's disk (sectors
per track, numbers of sectors for the FAT etc.)
3. Replace the boot sector with Edward's one with a disk utility.
This may be complicated and perhaps there are formatting programs that
have an option to write a boot loader. AFAIK Claus Brod wrote one
distributed with his book "Scheibenkleister" ("disk paste").
Perhaps the american.prg is a cracked version of TOS 2.x that puts a
TOS-2-desktop on an older Atari ST. I remember a similar newdesk.prg.
TOS 3 doesn't run on ST's for it is compiled for 68030 CPU's.
100% legal TOS 2.06 Images are f. e. distributed with the CD that comes
with July/August issue of the German Mac Live journal. For only 5 EUR.
I'm proud to have such a file for use with the TOSBOX emulator. Perhaps
Thomas Raukamp from the Falke Verlag will serve you with an Image file
for a small fee.

regards, Ludwig

 
 
 

Installing "TOS image" files

Post by Ludwig Maetzk » Wed, 13 Mar 2002 18:01:22


Hi Hallvard,

Quote:> > 100% legal TOS 2.06 Images are f. e. distributed with the CD that comes
> > with July/August issue of the German Mac Live journal. For only 5 EUR.
> are you saying that it'll be included in
> this year's July/August issue, or are you referring to last year or some
> other year of that magazine?

July/August 2001

regards, Ludwig

 
 
 

Installing "TOS image" files

Post by chri » Thu, 14 Mar 2002 08:15:20


I have a TOS 1.0 disk used on an original ST, will it work on an ST with tos
in rom?


Quote:> Hi Hallvard,

> > > 100% legal TOS 2.06 Images are f. e. distributed with the CD that
comes
> > > with July/August issue of the German Mac Live journal. For only 5 EUR.
> > are you saying that it'll be included in
> > this year's July/August issue, or are you referring to last year or some
> > other year of that magazine?
> July/August 2001

> regards, Ludwig

 
 
 

Installing "TOS image" files

Post by Brent Eame » Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:46:10


Try http://home.hccnet.nl/v.d.burg/atari/framesets/frameset_tos.html

Download ROM_UTIL.ZIP, there is a program named tosboot.tos.   Even though
it is not tosboot.prg I think the functionality is similiar


Quote:> I found something interesting at the following website:

>  http://home.hccnet.nl/v.d.burg/atari/framesets/frameset_tos.html

> where it says:

> --------------------------------
> Software Images of TOS
> ----------------------
> It is possible, though, to use other TOS versions without unscrewing
> your Atari, by loading software images of TOS (tos.img) during boot
> time. You need a program for this in the AUTO folder, like tosboot.prg.
> The exception that proves the rule and doesn't need any other programs,
> is a version of TOS 3.01 called american.prg that will run directly from
> the AUTO folder. Besides the tosboot program, you need the software
> image of your desired TOS version: these images are lying around on the
> internet, for example try Little Green Desktop. More than 1 MB of memory
> is also very welcome if you still want to do something useful, since the
> TOS will now be loaded into the precious memory of your Atari... Most of
> the software versions of TOS will survive a reset (but obviously not an
> OFF/ON).
> -----------------------------

> the question of course is..... where do I find "TOSBOOT.PRG"?

> Hallvard
> --
> Atari Launchpad    : <http://launchpad.atari.org>
> Notator/Creator SL : <http://www.notator.org>

 
 
 

Installing "TOS image" files

Post by Bill Bertra » Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:06:23



Quote:> I found something interesting at the following website:

>  http://home.hccnet.nl/v.d.burg/atari/framesets/frameset_tos.html

[snip]

Quote:> the question of course is..... where do I find "TOSBOOT.PRG"?

Hi Hallvard,

Have a look at the site again. You don't need find TOSBOOT.PRG, as there is
a program called seltos, which does the same job. The program you need is on
the same site! Scroll down a bit and you will find a link for seltos. I
tried it today and it loaded the uk version of TOS 2.06 successfully on my
4MB STe.

Hope that's what you were looking for,

-Bill.

 
 
 

Installing "TOS image" files

Post by Brent Eame » Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:05:04


I tried that program and it keeps complaining about an unsupported TOS
version



message

> > I found something interesting at the following website:

> >  http://home.hccnet.nl/v.d.burg/atari/framesets/frameset_tos.html

> [snip]

> > the question of course is..... where do I find "TOSBOOT.PRG"?

> Hi Hallvard,

> Have a look at the site again. You don't need find TOSBOOT.PRG, as there
is
> a program called seltos, which does the same job. The program you need is
on
> the same site! Scroll down a bit and you will find a link for seltos. I
> tried it today and it loaded the uk version of TOS 2.06 successfully on my
> 4MB STe.

> Hope that's what you were looking for,

> -Bill.

 
 
 

Installing "TOS image" files

Post by Matthias Arn » Thu, 14 Mar 2002 16:25:17



>I have a TOS 1.0 disk used on an original ST, will it work on an ST with tos
>in rom?

Yes it will. Any ST with TOS in ROM is able to boot a diskbased TOS.
This is quite often handy for games that do not work with newer versions of
TOS.

Matthias
--


    ICQ: 40358321
    PGP-Key: http://home.tu-clausthal.de/~ifmar/pubkey.asc

 
 
 

Installing "TOS image" files

Post by Ludwig Maetzk » Thu, 14 Mar 2002 19:07:04


Hi Hallvard,

Quote:> > July/August 2001
> Thanks. Are there back-issues available?

I think so. Ask Thomas Raukamp.

Quote:> By the way, why does a Macintosh magazine include TOS images for the
> Atari ST? Are there perhaps Atari emulators for the Mac that use TOS
> images such as the ones for PCs?

NoSTalgia is such an Atari emulator for the Mac. The TOS images on the
mentioned MacLife CD are deeply hidden in a stuffit Archive with
NoSTalgia.

regards, Ludwig

 
 
 

Installing "TOS image" files

Post by Hauke Fa » Fri, 15 Mar 2002 02:41:24



> The next natural question is of course what to use to load those TOS
> images files?
> The programs I've tried so far only allow for certain versions and
> languages. Isn't there anything out there which will load ANY TOS image
> file?

[Disclaimer: It's been a while since I toyed around with booting 2.0.6
on a 1040STF. The German magazine c't had an article about relocating
TOS for the PAK 68020 upgrade, but I cannot look that up now]

The problem with booting a TOS image is that the image has to be
relocated, i.e. absolute references (loads, jumps, subroutine calls) to
locations inside the image (and only those!) have to be adjusted for the
new location.

As the image itself has no provisions for the job, your loader comes
with large tables that describe relative offsets into the image, and how
the addressed item should be adjusted. As I understand it, setting up
those tables - they differ from image to image, depending on language
and release - is a matter of educated guesses and trial-and-error.

HTH,
        hauke

--
Wer im Usenet gelesen werden will, sollte leserorientiert schreiben. Wer
nur fr sich schreiben will, dem ist mit einem Tagebuch vielleicht
besser geholfen. Gelesen zu werden ist kein Recht, sondern ein Privileg.
                                     (Thore Tams in d.n.s.umgangsformen)

 
 
 

Installing "TOS image" files

Post by Djordje Vukov » Fri, 15 Mar 2002 02:45:33



Quote:>I'd like to know more about installing TOS 2.06 from so called
>"TOS image files". Apart from the (more or less legal) TOS image files,
>what else is needed, and how is it done?
>I'm guessing some sort of "TOS loader" in the AUTO folder, which finds
>the TOS image file and loads it into memory.

Hi, Hallvard;

I suggest you take a look again at the TOSPATCH utility which has been
mentioned several timesand which you said you had... You have to:
* Get yourself a TOS2.06 image named TOS.IMG (German one, but Swedish
  may possibly do, too);
* Edit file RELOC206.FIL so that you remove the comment from the line
  specifying the amount of RAM in your computer;
* Run TOSPATCH.TTP and feed it the name of RELOC206.FIL
* Put the modified TOS.IMG (result output from TOSPATCH.TTP) to root
  of the boot disk (it may be a good idea to put the original TOS
  image on a  different location, so as not to be overwritten).
* Put AUTO_206.PRG (TOS-image loader) into AUTO folder so as to be FIRST
  (or first after a boot-selector program):
* Reboot...  The computer will load TOS image, then REBOOT again by itself
and then the Atari logo should appear in the corner, etc. etc.

Alternatively, instead of RELOC206.FIL you may use another of the control
files supplied with TOSPATCH, e.g. the largest one (F206_REL.FIL) and
activate many other patches, such as SHELLBUF or WINX features- in that
case you do not need GEMRAM, WINX, or you may make the patch that will
make the loaded TOS image reset-proof, etc. Note that some patches are
incompatible with some others- e.g. you can do ARROWFIX or WINX but not
both because the arrow-patch is already included in WINX patch.

Btw. there are other TOS-image loaders which work on their own- you  don't
have to specify any relocation information. One has been made by Pera Putnik,
but I do not know the web location or if it is still there. I also came
upon a couple of loaders which did NOT work correctly e.g. after loading
TOS image with one such faulty program, some desktop menu items became invisible.

cu;

 
 
 

Installing "TOS image" files

Post by Djordje Vukov » Fri, 15 Mar 2002 02:45:37



Quote:>I'd like to know more about installing TOS 2.06 from so called
>By the way, how much memory does something like this steal?

TOS 2.06 in RAM will take slightly less than 300KB, IIRC.  In fact,
the image is 256kB and I suppose that housekeeping needs are the same
as with ROM-based TOS so that only the image size should count.
So, let's say- between 256 and 300kB.

Quote:>I've been under the impression that even a standard ST/F/M/E will read
>TOS from the ROM chips, then load it into RAM (simply because ROM is too
>slow to be efficient) -is this correct?

No, this is not correct. On a ST-series machine ROM and RAM are accessed
at the same rate and there would be no benefit, speedwise, in moving
the OS to RAM. On machines such as the TT, an operating system in Fast-RAM
should be significantly faster, because Fast-RAM-access rate is faster
than ROM-access on that machine and the CPU is fast enough anyway.  

An interesting situation is possible with the ST-series: if a hardware
accelerator is installed (the simple, inefficient one, which speeds only
the CPU for internal operations to 16MHz), overall speed gain is about
20% but if a simple modification of the acceleration circuit is made,
which would keep the CPU on 16MHz while ACCESSING THE ROMS (RAM access
must be kept on 8MHz because of several factors), an overall speed gain
of about 40% can be obtained. So, in this case, an OS operating
from ROM would be faster than one operationg from ST-RAM. In order for
this to work, one  must use fast ROMs (i.e. 120ns EPROMs or even faster
other chip types).  

cu;

 
 
 

Installing "TOS image" files

Post by M?gamodes » Fri, 15 Mar 2002 03:44:45


Hello Djordje,

which would keep the CPU on 16MHz while ACCESSING THE ROMS

Very interesting !
What to do to run the roms faster ?
Can it be done on eproms too ?

Regards

M?gamodeste

 
 
 

Installing "TOS image" files

Post by Ludwig Maetzk » Fri, 15 Mar 2002 19:27:18


Hi Hallvard,

Quote:> > I think so. Ask Thomas Raukamp.
> Where can I find his email address? (You probably don't want to post it
> here, at least not without "munging" it because of spam).


I had no reservations about spam. Do spammers extract and collect email
addresses from mail bodys?

Quote:> Who owns the rights to TOS these days anyway?

Falke Verlag, among others.

Quote:> I run MagiCMac on my Apple Macintosh computer, but I don't think I can
> run NoSTalgia -I believe it needs a PowerPC processor whereas I "only"
> have a 68040. Blindingly fast running Atari applications though!
> Actually twice as fast as equivelant Mac applications running in MacOS
> (i.e. "Stzip" vs. "Zipit" compressing/decompressing the same files)

I have MagiCMac, too.
For Next time, I will use aranym on an Intel/AMD-PC and I hope that ASH
will support aranym, perhaps with a distribution for their own.

regards, Ludwig

 
 
 

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