WINX - still only 4 windows in desktop

WINX - still only 4 windows in desktop

Post by Capt.J.T. Kir » Tue, 23 Jun 1992 19:41:04



Hi,
I am using WINX on my 1040STFM (4MB), TOS 1.4 (or rather 1.04).
I installed it with 16 windows. Works fine with most gem-progs that
use windows, but in the ATARI-DESKTOP I still can open only 4
windows.
I also use TOS1.4-FIX (or however it is called); I first
run WINX, then TOS1.4-FIX as one is told in the readme-file of WINX.

Is everything the way it is supposed to be (still only 4 windows in desktop),
or do I have to change something ?

thanks in advance,

--

----------------------------------------------------------------
-- Scotty, beam me up, there`s no intelligent life down here! --
-- (Capt. J.T. Kirk, USS Enterprise)                          --
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WINX - still only 4 windows in desktop

Post by Uwe Seim » Tue, 23 Jun 1992 19:55:43



Quote:>Hi,
>I am using WINX on my 1040STFM (4MB), TOS 1.4 (or rather 1.04).
>I installed it with 16 windows. Works fine with most gem-progs that
>use windows, but in the ATARI-DESKTOP I still can open only 4
>windows.

This is normal. The desktop of TOS 1.04 doesn't support more than four
windows. This applies only to the desktop, not to other programs, of course.

***************************************
*        Uwe Seimet                   *


*-------------------------------------*
* I really hate this damned machine,  *
*     I wish that they would sell it. *
* It never does that what I mean      *
*     but only what I tell it.        *
***************************************

 
 
 

WINX - still only 4 windows in desktop

Post by CAS.. » Tue, 23 Jun 1992 21:00:17



> Hi,
> I am using WINX on my 1040STFM (4MB), TOS 1.4 (or rather 1.04).
> I installed it with 16 windows. Works fine with most gem-progs that
> use windows, but in the ATARI-DESKTOP I still can open only 4
> windows.
> I also use TOS1.4-FIX (or however it is called); I first
> run WINX, then TOS1.4-FIX as one is told in the readme-file of WINX.

> Is everything the way it is supposed to be (still only 4 windows in desktop),
> or do I have to change something ?

No chance. The number of windows the ATARI-DESKTOP uses hasn't anything
to do with the number of windows AES support.

Use gemini  (or something else) instead of your desktop.
Gerd

##############################################################################

##############################################################################
Real Name:          # Einem Land, dessen Sprache das Wort "Kultur - Beutel"
Gerd Castan         # hervorgebracht hat, ist nicht zu trauen.
Hoehbergstr. 16     #                 (Luisa Francia)
D-7000 Stuttgart 60 #

 
 
 

WINX - still only 4 windows in desktop

Post by Oke » Tue, 23 Jun 1992 21:28:57



Quote:>Hi,
>I am using WINX on my 1040STFM (4MB), TOS 1.4 (or rather 1.04).
>I installed it with 16 windows. Works fine with most gem-progs that
>use windows, but in the ATARI-DESKTOP I still can open only 4
>windows.
>I also use TOS1.4-FIX (or however it is called); I first
>run WINX, then TOS1.4-FIX as one is told in the readme-file of WINX.
>Is everything the way it is supposed to be (still only 4 windows in desktop),
>or do I have to change something ?

I think the problem is caused by the desktop itself. WINX is supposed to
increase the number of windows that GEM can use, but this is no good to the
desktop since it was written with the 7 window limit in mind, and so was
hard-coded to only allow 4 file windows, leaving a few spare for accessories.
The answer is hack your ROMs, or to use a desktop replacement such as Gemini
or Neodesk.

--
This signature is copyright 12/6/1992 Simon Oke. All rights reserved. If you
like it and keep a copy for your own use, you owe me $20. Please pass it on

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 ...though he was master of all the world, he was not quite sure what to
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WINX - still only 4 windows in desktop

Post by CUMMINS JOHN WIL » Wed, 24 Jun 1992 00:42:39


I thought it only worked w German tos 1.4!

Hummm...  maybe it's only the desktop that give it fits!
Glad you mentioned other programs can take advantage of it.
I ignored it when TOS refused to open a fifth window.

(just gave up on it)

jc

 
 
 

WINX - still only 4 windows in desktop

Post by Leo Hend » Wed, 24 Jun 1992 02:59:10




>>Hi,
>>I am using WINX on my 1040STFM (4MB), TOS 1.4 (or rather 1.04).
>>I installed it with 16 windows. Works fine with most gem-progs that
>>use windows, but in the ATARI-DESKTOP I still can open only 4
>>windows.

>This is normal. The desktop of TOS 1.04 doesn't support more than four
>windows. This applies only to the desktop, not to other programs, of course.

Some other programs inforce a limit to the number to windows to insure that
there is always windows free for desktop accessories, so this does in fact
apply to some other programs.

- Leo Hendry

 
 
 

WINX - still only 4 windows in desktop

Post by Andrew C. Stoff » Wed, 24 Jun 1992 08:59:22



>I think the problem is caused by the desktop itself. WINX is supposed to
>increase the number of windows that GEM can use, but this is no good to the
>desktop since it was written with the 7 window limit in mind, and so was
>hard-coded to only allow 4 file windows, leaving a few spare for accessories.

Umm... when did this happen ? I can get more than 4 file windows open
at the same time on my MegaSTe and the same was true for my old
1040STf w/TOS 1.2. I know I can get MORE windows from TOS 2.05 than
1.2 but the exact number escapes me.... (7 for 2.05, I just checked)

But who needs that many windows open at the same time ? The ST is not
like a mac where each sub-directory (ie. folder) opens into its own
window on the screen. Changing directories on the same drive is very
easy on an ST so there is really no need for so many file windows open at
the same time.

-Andy-

--
|"The Snark WAS a Boojum, you see!"   |                                |


-------

 
 
 

WINX - still only 4 windows in desktop

Post by Marinos Yannikos (Prak Al » Wed, 24 Jun 1992 20:39:54



Quote:>But who needs that many windows open at the same time ? The ST is not
>like a mac where each sub-directory (ie. folder) opens into its own
>window on the screen. Changing directories on the same drive is very
>easy on an ST so there is really no need for so many file windows open at
>the same time.

Wait for MultiTOS, then you'll know! How would you be able to run
20 programs at the same time (every TOS program in a window) if you
had only 7 windows (or 4 for that matter)? What if you wanted to
have a terminal program on the desktop (good ones can handle several
windows at the same time), edit some C-modules at the same time,
and run TOP or whatever? MultiTOS has been reported to have run
with 90 windows open at the same time BTW.

 Marinos Yannikos

 
 
 

WINX - still only 4 windows in desktop

Post by Andrew C. Stoff » Wed, 24 Jun 1992 23:55:39




>>But who needs that many windows open at the same time ? The ST is not

(Oops)                   ^ insert 'file' here....

Quote:>>easy on an ST so there is really no need for so many file windows open at
>>the same time.                                       ^^^^^^^^^^^^

I stand by this statement... I was refering to a very specific
instance of window usage. On the DESKTOP showing directories.

Quote:>Wait for MultiTOS, then you'll know! How would you be able to run

I am :-).... Right now, a program I've been working on is stymied by
two things.
1. How do you get it to behave in an environment such as Multi-Tos/Gem.
2. GEM itself....
Someone from Atari mentioned a few months back that programs that use
a lot of dialog/alert boxes aren't very GEM friendly in a multitasking
environment because they take control of the system when they are used
and you can't switch to another program until they are dealt with.
Once I can figure out how to do what I want in windows ONLY, I'll be
all set.

Quote:>20 programs at the same time (every TOS program in a window) if you

Isn't that a bit much for one person ? :-).

The only problem is memory. Does the ST use up huge chunks of RAM for
windows ? How much memory would you have left over after opening the
90 windows you mentioned ? On a TT there might be enough memory left
over to run a large application but on an ST where the max is 4megs of
RAM ?

-Andy-
--
|"The Snark WAS a Boojum, you see!"   |                                |


-------

 
 
 

WINX - still only 4 windows in desktop

Post by Steve Yelvingt » Thu, 25 Jun 1992 03:50:40




 > Someone from Atari mentioned a few months back that programs that use
 > a lot of dialog/alert boxes aren't very GEM friendly in a multitasking
 > environment because they take control of the system when they are used
 > and you can't switch to another program until they are dealt with.
 > Once I can figure out how to do what I want in windows ONLY, I'll be
 > all set.

I think this goes back to a December 1991 message on GEnie from Bill
Rehbock, who said:

  ``Static Dialog boxes are bad, very bad, and really, really, really
    irritate users on a multi-tasking system, because they generally
    take control, and leave the user with no ability to get at their
    other applications.''

Many others have pointed out that making dialogs modal is Atari's
choice, and not an unavoidable law of nature.

 >>20 programs at the same time (every TOS program in a window) if you
 >
 > Isn't that a bit much for one person ? :-).

So is 20 megabytes of hard disk space. Oops, I mean 80. Or maybe I meant
to say 160.... :-)

 > The only problem is memory. Does the ST use up huge chunks of RAM for
 > windows ? How much memory would you have left over after opening the
 > 90 windows you mentioned ? On a TT there might be enough memory left
 > over to run a large application but on an ST where the max is 4megs of
 > RAM ?

Mmmm. I can remember when the question was: ``Is 48K of RAM was enough,
or so I need 64K?''

I think that when MultiTOS shows up, it will be recommended for use with
the 68030/040 machines. In addition to the 4MB memory limitation, the
68000 can't protect memory regions from being stomped by wild programs.
All indications are that MultiTOS will run on the older machines, but
you'll have to live with their shortcomings.

 ---
 Steve Yelvington              Marine on St. Croix, Minnesota, USA

 
 
 

WINX - still only 4 windows in desktop

Post by Todd Sundst » Thu, 25 Jun 1992 05:24:59


I assume the file everyone is talking about is WINXV13.LZH??  If it is,
would someone please tell me which lharc program they are using to
dearc this file.  I have tried *four* different varieties on this
file and none of them seem to do the job?

                                                Todd

 
 
 

WINX - still only 4 windows in desktop

Post by Leo Hend » Thu, 25 Jun 1992 09:08:45



>I assume the file everyone is talking about is WINXV13.LZH??  If it is,
>would someone please tell me which lharc program they are using to
>dearc this file.  I have tried *four* different varieties on this
>file and none of them seem to do the job?

>                                            Todd

Well that's LHARC for you.  Try and find a copy that has been ZOOed.
 
 
 

WINX - still only 4 windows in desktop

Post by Reiner Pla » Thu, 25 Jun 1992 18:02:57



Quote:> I am using WINX on my 1040STFM (4MB), TOS 1.4 (or rather 1.04).
> I installed it with 16 windows. Works fine with most gem-progs that
> use windows, but in the ATARI-DESKTOP I still can open only 4 windows.

With WINX, more than 8 windows can be used by applications.
However, the desktop is always limited (hardcoded) to 8 windows
(and provides only 4 windows for the user).
By the way, with MultiGEM II, a new version of WINX is delivered, which
not only supports TOS 1.04, but all versions of TOS.

Reiner.

----

 
 
 

WINX - still only 4 windows in desktop

Post by Oke » Thu, 25 Jun 1992 21:04:14



| >20 programs at the same time (every TOS program in a window) if you
|
| Isn't that a bit much for one person ? :-).
|
| The only problem is memory. Does the ST use up huge chunks of RAM for
| windows ? How much memory would you have left over after opening the
| 90 windows you mentioned ? On a TT there might be enough memory left
| over to run a large application but on an ST where the max is 4megs of
| RAM ?

No, there is another problem. Speed. My ST runs just about fast enough for
my liking in single-tasking mode. When I get 3 or 4 programs going under MiNT
it's too slow. Can you imagine 20 programs at once?

--
This signature is copyright 12/6/1992 Simon Oke. All rights reserved. If you
like it and keep a copy for your own use, you owe me $20. Please pass it on to

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 
 
 

1. WINX - still only 4 windows in desktop


                                            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Grin...

Blame Atari for it, the desktop doesn't use normal system calls (via trap)
but jumps directly into the routines. So there's no chance for more than
4 windows in desktop except....

Yeah, get WINX 2.0, it offers 40 windows within the desktop, control elements
in all window (not only the topped one). The only problem is that you've got
to copy the whole GEM into the RAM in order to give WINX a chance to patch it.
That shouldn't be a problem on a 4 MByte machine like yours or mine, but the
512 KByte or 1 MByte are going to get some trouble....
/s/

--

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