'040 board??? Why not '060 board instead?

'040 board??? Why not '060 board instead?

Post by Richard MORR » Sun, 11 Dec 1994 06:33:30



I was just wondering after seeing all the posts about 040 boards for the
Falcon...

Why aren't they making an '060 board for the Falcon instead???  I don't
know the specs of the '060, but if it's out - why don't companies drop
any '040 board and work on an '060 board?

I guess that the data lines will probably be 64 bit instead of 32?  (This
is just a presumption).  Would that create problems with current Falcons?

Or is it that the '060 chip is more expensive than an '040?  I don't think
this would matter as if you are going to buy an accelerator board, surely
most would go for an '060 as it is bound to be faster than any '040 (unless
someone made a _serious_ mistake).

Do you all agree/disagree?

Richard =8-]

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'040 board??? Why not '060 board instead?

Post by Sam McG » Sun, 11 Dec 1994 11:38:41


: I was just wondering after seeing all the posts about 040 boards for the
: Falcon...

: Why aren't they making an '060 board for the Falcon instead???  I don't
: know the specs of the '060, but if it's out - why don't companies drop
: any '040 board and work on an '060 board?

I have heard that the 060 is MOSTLY compatible with the 040 but it is not
DIRECTLY pin compatible. There may be an upgrade board that will allow
an 060 too be used in a 040 slot on any platform.

I was wondering the same thing... The only way I'll get an 040 accelerator
for my Falcon is if there is a upgrade path to the 060.

Please correct my info if it's inaccurate.

Sam

 
 
 

'040 board??? Why not '060 board instead?

Post by Tommy Jonaes » Wed, 14 Dec 1994 09:15:34


: I was just wondering after seeing all the posts about 040 boards for the
: Falcon...

: Why aren't they making an '060 board for the Falcon instead???  I don't
: know the specs of the '060, but if it's out - why don't companies drop
: any '040 board and work on an '060 board?

A '040 board will definately be cheaper than a '060 board, and thus
appeal to a bigger market.
A '060 board isn't a bad idea, but something that will have to wait for
most developers until thay have made a 040 board.

: I guess that the data lines will probably be 64 bit instead of 32?  (This
: is just a presumption).  Would that create problems with current Falcons?

No, all 680xx processors have adaptive datawidth. They can accept any
memory size from 8 bit up to 32. (Don't think 060 is 64 bit)

: Or is it that the '060 chip is more expensive than an '040?  I don't think
: this would matter as if you are going to buy an accelerator board, surely
: most would go for an '060 as it is bound to be faster than any '040 (unless
: someone made a _serious_ mistake).

Motorola haven't sold so many 060's, (compared to 030-040) and is
probably very expensive compared to them.
060 is faster, but I wouldn't fork out the money for it. To expensive and
I don't need the power.

Regards, Tommy

 
 
 

'040 board??? Why not '060 board instead?

Post by David Paul Forr » Thu, 15 Dec 1994 03:44:16




>: I was just wondering after seeing all the posts about 040 boards for the
>: Falcon...
>: Why aren't they making an '060 board for the Falcon instead???  I don't
>: know the specs of the '060, but if it's out - why don't companies drop
>: any '040 board and work on an '060 board?
>A '040 board will definately be cheaper than a '060 board, and thus
>appeal to a bigger market.

Bigger market????  Two times zero is still zero.  I'd bet the main
reason there are '040 boards as opposed to '060 boards is that '040
boards have been implemented on other platfroms for much longer and
thus it is cheaper to reverse engineer an existing design than to
start from scratch.
--
David Forrai

 
 
 

'040 board??? Why not '060 board instead?

Post by Johan Klocka » Thu, 15 Dec 1994 06:34:01





>A '040 board will definately be cheaper than a '060 board, and thus
>appeal to a bigger market.

Perhaps not in the future...  (see later)

Quote:>: I guess that the data lines will probably be 64 bit instead of 32?  (This
>: is just a presumption).  Would that create problems with current Falcons?

>No, all 680xx processors have adaptive datawidth. They can accept any
>memory size from 8 bit up to 32. (Don't think 060 is 64 bit)

Actually the '040 can only handle a 32 bit bus according to what I've read
about it. The '060 is most likely the same.

Quote:>Motorola haven't sold so many 060's, (compared to 030-040) and is
>probably very expensive compared to them.

Well, right now the '060 is certainly more expensive, but I read somewhere
that they actually expected the chip to be cheaper to produce than the
'040, which could be nice...

Even if the '060 is pin compatible with the '040, it won't be possible to
simply plug it into an '040-accelerator card since they've lowered the
supply voltage to 3.3 (or was it 3?) volts.

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'040 board??? Why not '060 board instead?

Post by Robert Krenn - HFB T d » Thu, 15 Dec 1994 07:11:17




>A '040 board will definately be cheaper than a '060 board, and thus
>appeal to a bigger market.

True so true!

Quote:>A '060 board isn't a bad idea, but something that will have to wait for
>most developers until thay have made a 040 board.

And until the 060 is out on the market! (Is it out?)

Quote:>No, all 680xx processors have adaptive datawidth. They can accept any
>memory size from 8 bit up to 32. (Don't think 060 is 64 bit)

Hmmm not true!

000, 010 does not have adaptive datawidth!

020 and 030 does!

040 and 060 has it, IF you are using a external chip called: 68150

the 060 CPU has 32 bit wide data/address bus!

Quote:>Motorola haven't sold so many 060's, (compared to 030-040) and is
>probably very expensive compared to them.

I think Motorola had to rethink when APPLE said that they wouldn't have
any use of the 060, instead they consentrated on the PPC!

Still the CPU market for Motorola is quite small relative to other parts
of Motorola products!

Quote:>060 is faster, but I wouldn't fork out the money for it. To expensive and
>I don't need the power.

What! You always need POWER! (But if it's worth the money? Don't know!)

//Robert - who just read the m68k FAQ!

--

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'040 board??? Why not '060 board instead?

Post by Tim Seufe » Thu, 15 Dec 1994 08:16:04




> No, all 680xx processors have adaptive datawidth. They can accept any
> memory size from 8 bit up to 32. (Don't think 060 is 64 bit)

The 68060 has a 64-bit data bus, though it is still a 32-bit processor
(just as the Pentium and PowerPC 601 have 64-bit data buses but are 32-bit
processors).

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'040 board??? Why not '060 board instead?

Post by GEORGE GAGH » Fri, 16 Dec 1994 00:03:11


: The 68060 has a 64-bit data bus, though it is still a 32-bit processor
: (just as the Pentium and PowerPC 601 have 64-bit data buses but are 32-bit
: processors).

The 68060 and the Pentium have 64bit data/32bit address and 32bit registers.

The PowerPC is not a 32bit processor.  It has  64bit data/32bit address and
32 64bit general registers and 32 64bit float registers...  The only thing
32bit about it is the address bus....

 
 
 

'040 board??? Why not '060 board instead?

Post by Craig Graha » Fri, 16 Dec 1994 00:01:32



Quote:>Bigger market????  Two times zero is still zero.  I'd bet the main
>reason there are '040 boards as opposed to '060 boards is that '040
>boards have been implemented on other platfroms for much longer and
>thus it is cheaper to reverse engineer an existing design than to
>start from scratch.

It's not as if designing for the Motorola 68K family is difficult. The
CPU's are much better  designed than their Intel counterparts, so
designing with them is that much easier.

Reverse engineer someone elses design? Why?

Nope, the reason for a 040 accelerator is simply that the 060 is to
*y expensive to buy at the moment (and may remain that way as
Apple aren't using it as they have in the past).

Craig
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'040 board??? Why not '060 board instead?

Post by Michael Paul Asht » Fri, 16 Dec 1994 03:59:23



>Nope, the reason for a 040 accelerator is simply that the 060 is to
>*y expensive to buy at the moment (and may remain that way as
>Apple aren't using it as they have in the past).

I remember when Apple was starting to come out with 040 machines a few years
ago.  The first 040 Macs rolled out the door about 2 or 3 years after the 040
came out.  There was alot of furor over that, because of course Mac users ex-
pected Apple to be able to come out with 040 Macs as soon as Motorola came out
with 040's.
  The problem was not with Apple, but with Motorola.  Apple needed quantities
in the hundreds of thousands, and Motorola simply couldn't produce that many
040's cheaply or reliably enough for Apple.  It took them a couple of years
to get their production lines to the point that they could make that many
040's.  I expect that they will have the same sorts of problems with the 060.  
There are, of course, buyers for the chip, and Motorola, citing one example,
has 060 VME boards, but these cost several thousands of dollars and are for
very specialised applications.  The 060 is not a mass-quantity item yet, and
if that kind of demand doesn't exist, Motorola probably won't take the trouble
to tweak the production lines to handle it.
                                                - Michael Ashton
 
 
 

'040 board??? Why not '060 board instead?

Post by BARRY WILSO » Fri, 16 Dec 1994 04:02:46


Quote:>Why aren't they making an '060 board for the Falcon instead???  I don't
>know the specs of the '060, but if it's out - why don't companies drop
>any '040 board and work on an '060 board?

I understand that the 060 chip is still in development.

Quote:>I guess that the data lines will probably be 64 bit instead of 32?  (This
>is just a presumption).  Would that create problems with current Falcons?

No, it is a 32 bit device.


 
 
 

'040 board??? Why not '060 board instead?

Post by Hendrik Myli » Sat, 17 Dec 1994 04:40:46



Quote:>I understand that the 060 chip is still in development.

The 060 is available as SAMPLES! And quite expesive, too. Dunno the exact
price, I'd guess around 700$ a piece.

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'040 board??? Why not '060 board instead?

Post by Roland Giva » Sun, 18 Dec 1994 09:29:22



X-Newsreader: CixRead/CixComm


  > Nope, the reason for a 040 accelerator is simply that the 060 is to
  > *y expensive to buy at the moment (and may remain that way as
  > Apple aren't using it as they have in the past).

A well designed 040 accelerator is going to blow the Falcon (and TT for
that matter) away anyway. I'd be surprised if many Falcon owners could
afford to buy a 060 accelerator. I'm sure many of them would consider it
just *too* expensive.

Roland.

 
 
 

'040 board??? Why not '060 board instead?

Post by Paul Blag » Mon, 19 Dec 1994 02:59:35



: X-Newsreader: CixRead/CixComm


:   > Nope, the reason for a 040 accelerator is simply that the 060 is to
:   > *y expensive to buy at the moment (and may remain that way as
:   > Apple aren't using it as they have in the past).

: A well designed 040 accelerator is going to blow the Falcon (and TT for
: that matter) away anyway. I'd be surprised if many Falcon owners could
: afford to buy a 060 accelerator. I'm sure many of them would consider it
: just *too* expensive.

: Roland.

I spent some time at a Motorola office here in San Diego, CA. I was told
that the 060 is not very much more than the 040 price wise. Therefore,
there is really not much problems in getting the 060 in place of an 040.
The 060 is bus compatible with the 040, so the 040 type upgrade would be
needed in order to run the 060. This is where the real expense would be,
no the cost of the CPU.

Motorola rules.....

Paul

 
 
 

'040 board??? Why not '060 board instead?

Post by R_Tim_Cos.. » Mon, 19 Dec 1994 04:42:06




Quote:>The PowerPC is not a 32bit processor.  It has  64bit data/32bit address and
>32 64bit general registers and 32 64bit float registers...  The only thing
>32bit about it is the address bus....

Actually the PowerPC has two versions of its architecture: 32 bit and 64 bit.

The currently available chips (601, 603, and 604) are all the 32 bit
architecture (32 32bit general registers and 32 64bit floating registers
              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
with a 32 bit effective address, a 52 bit virtual address, and 32 bit
physical address.

The only chip announced so far that implements the 64 bit architecture
(the 620), isn't available yet. It DOES provide 32 64bit general registers
and 32 64bit floating registers with a 64 bit effective address, an 80 bit
virtual address, and a 64 bit physical address.

So while the PowerPC does have a 64 bit version of its architecture, MOST
PowerPCs that will be sold will be the 32 bit architecture.

                                        R. Tim Coslet


        technology, n.  domesticated natural phenomena

 
 
 

1. FALCON/'040 BOARD

my

  like SUITCASE and the whole twerps in red braces and glasses image
  just puts me off. Anyway ATARI has always ensured that I earn my daily
  bread for a lot less than a MAC ( even the POWERPC ) will do. However
  my beliefs are open for change.

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2. 2 Online Services Money 97??

3. Falcon/'040 board

4. sendmail and perl

5. Milan 040 or 060

6. Wraitheleven - AG & Hotmail??

7. WTB: Milan 040/060

8. Problem: SSH tunnel and bind error

9. Milan 040 and 060

10. Silliness (was: Re: Falcon 040 Board)

11. Message for Marcus Prickett - Hit 'n' if you're not him!

12. 040 Board for Falcon?

13. cuzuba's 060 falcon upgrade